I would file it alongside fanboy as a shite Internet insult that makes the user look worse than the intended recipient personally.
Film Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'
- Thread starter Sweet Square
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I would file it alongside fanboy as a shite Internet insult that makes the user look worse than the intended recipient personally.
Ok boomer.
Looking at the box office numbers I’m not so sure. Superhero films just make so much more money than everything else showing, the fact is they are the only films people want to go and see.
It’s very easy and depressing to see a future where cinemas only show films like Spider-Man(Which tbh already happens if you don’t live in a city).
Dune did quite well, didn't it?
I know it's a not an original film but it's not really a franchise like Marvel, Harry Potter or Star Wars in terms of virtually guaranteed success at the box office
I know it's a not an original film but it's not really a franchise like Marvel, Harry Potter or Star Wars in terms of virtually guaranteed success at the box office
Domestic box office it’s 13th below the likes of ghostbusters and most Marvel films(Spider-Man has already made more money) and worldwide box office its 10th. So miles better in terms of money than Blade Runner 2049 but still small when compared to comic book films.
The only original films that are beating Marvel films at the box office are a Chinese war film called The Battle At Lake changjin(Looks amazing tbh)and Chinese comedy called Hi Mom.
Well no cinemas want blockbusters because that's what makes them money and keeps them in business, during a time where Netflix/prime/Disney+ is becoming increasingly popular.
Snobs will tell you mcu et al killed cinema but it's actually what's saving it.
No not at all. Not even close to the same is it?
Can imagine the scenes if people are loudly cheering on the Nazis.Very good.
Your argument is MCU is saving cinema because they are popular films so pop bands most be facing music for the same reason
True but it's only the chains where that's the case, which makes sense as multiplexes are massive and they need to get as many bums on seat as possible.
Independent cinemas have exploded in recent years and they still show a wider selection. Popular movies like West Side Story or anything with Olivia Colman does far more for them.
Does music need saving though?
As a civilisation we will always have music in one form or another. Not sure I can say the same about Cinema's.
For your terrible analogy, it be more appropriate to say pop bands are saving certain types of venues rather than music as a whole. I don't know enough about music to know whether that's true or not.
I've not said mcu/blockbusters are saving films as a whole, they're saving cinemas from going under. Big difference.
This is true, though I've noticed a couple of independents will show a blockbuster. But by in large the blockbusters are for the multiplexes and the independents won't be relying to much on them yeah. I Imagine this might change during/post COVID though.
Yeah, I'm not sure what the exact situation is but it feels like MCU movies might have some exclusivity rights with the chains? The blockbusters mine show tend to be distributed by other companies, Dune and James Bond to use recent examples. Then I think there's still some kind of timed exclusivity as they seem to show the movies a few weeks after the official release.
Disclaimer - I could be wrong about this.
I was referring to both cinema and watching sports actually. I know watching sports includes a lot of drama, but then there are also films with drama, obviously.
The bolded part: how can you be so sure? Just because you don't agree and couldn't feel that way, no-one can?
To go into this a bit further: lots of people will say that sports are anti-intellectual and pointless, and will never get why anyone would care about them. I suppose you'd reject that as elitist bullshit, and you'd be right. But it's the same in this case. Personally, I'm a pretty reserved and introverted person, I won't be getting openly or very emotional about much, and you will never hear me shouting at a film at home. But I wouldn't shout at sports on tv either (apart from the occasional 'Yes!' or "No!'). When I'm in a stadium, however, I go along with the crowd and cheer and jeer and whatever. It's probably the same with these people: if one of these shouters were alone in a cinema full of quiet people, they wouldn't be cheering cause they wouldn't get into that mood on their own. In a theatre full of people working each other up, however, it's a different story. I also watched a popcorn movie at a big outdoors music festival once, and everyone was shouting and cheering and everything also. And no, that wasn't a great emotional masterpiece either.
Also, obviously Spiderman wins. Duh. I don't suppose that's what they're cheering about though. It's how the filmmakers make it happen. In football, it's cool if your team crushes the opponent and wins 5-0, cause it's usually unexpected (except if you're City these days). In film, if Spiderman were defeating his enemies the same way, it would be super boring and no-one would be cheering. But stuff like Captain America picking up Thor's hammer in the final showdown with Thanos - that's just super cool if you're a big Marvel fan. (I also thought it was cool, but I didn't cheer. I probably would've if I had been in the room with these people though. Why not get along with the fun emotions?)
And anyway, films are doctored to affect your emotions. The scene where the guy hangs himself in The Shawnshank Redemption is immensely sad, as is the pier scene in The Remains of the Day, or most of The Barbarian Invasions. The ending of Fight Club every time makes me feel all confused and worried; and the ending to the Usual Suspects is very cool. None of that is fist-pumping stuff, of course, but then they are all much more cerebral films. It's not quite the right frame of reference - it's like wondering why people aren't experiencing Radiohead's Street Spirit and Green Day's Basket Case the same way.
Are you suggesting that this wouldn't have happened if people had been enjoying Spiderman in silence?
People call themselves stans, so it's not exactly an insult depending on who's saying it to who. Also fairly accurate if you've ever hung out in any online fandom spaces.
Brilliant take. I've been talking to a friend along these lines and how especially the Marvel movies really dull critical thinking in teens and kids and reinforce this whole "good guy with a gun" mentality in America and make people think everything is as simple as finding that larger than life "hero" (IE Trump for many). I really think Marvel movies are deteriorating the power of art while reinforcing unintelligent consumerism.
It's sad to see theatres canceling showings of a classic film like West Side Story and a brilliant noir novel made into a movie in 2021 in Nightmare Alley just to try to grift out more profit. But hey, nothing matters more than profit-making, the ultimate virtue in a society like this.
Nah I’m saying the argument of just let people enjoy things tends to ignore the negative outcomes these giant comic book movies have on the industry.
Currently the only thing that matters is profits so these franchise making so much more money over original films will just lead to more and more franchise films and the slow death of anything else getting shown in multiplex cinemas.
People simply enjoying things is partly why we have such a dull and shite mainstream culture.
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It simply doesn't make sense to cheer some mindless justice porn (thanks @hungrywing for my new favorite phrase) and compare it to sports. Cheering some illogical "super" hero in a theatre is really the same mindset that leads people to mindlessly cheer on Trump and delve into wild conspiracy theories about Democrats being baby worshipping Satanists and Trump the hero who stands against them. These movies prime society to look at opponents as evil comic villains and elevate billionaires who are huge parts of the problem into fake heros.
I refuse to watch Marvel movies and I can't see how someone reasonable can think some cheap gimmick like the underlined is "cool." These movies lack any meaningful stakes and reinforce a lot of the worst values for the societies that obsess over them. It's a shame because in the past there have been comic writers who tried to elevate the genre into something more meaningful (Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis, Ed Brubaker) but these days it's all crap like Spiderman and Avengers. I get they are popular and, in America, profit-seeking is the highest virtue so theatres will pamper to whatever leads to most profits but these things are a massive detriment to actual culture and art.
People celebrating in cinemas are lunatics... you're meant to be quiet in a cinema. I'm watching the film I don't need your running commentary or cheering. Glad I can't stand 99% of MCU and superhero movies as that would seriously grate me.
Edit: also Martin Scorsese is 100% right.
Edit: also Martin Scorsese is 100% right.
Same for the term fanboy.
Perhaps an interesting parallel are Westerns? I can't really name that many 'blockbuster' Westerns though other than the Spaghetti Westerns and maybe some John Wayne ones.
I can be sure because there are thousands of games every few days all over the world, on amateur, professional and top level and fans are invested in pretty much every game no matter the quality of the league or game, both home and on stadiums.
Many people I know, many people from caf cheer in front of the TV sitting alone watching a game, even when we are very mad at United for playing crap for years, even when we are at our lowest point just one goal can raise us from our seat even sitting home alone and hardly watching the game because we play shite, wheres with movie it's just not that type of investment and emotion. I am actually bigger TV and Movie fan than sport fan these days and when I am watching a game I am more emotional than watching a movie.
When we were on Uni my mate freaked out watching Breaking Bad last few episodes, and it was literally the craziest I'd seen anyone watching TV, but it was still nowhere near how some people are invested in sport.
Do you know anyone except little kids sitting in front of their TV being emotional about movie or TV show and cheering same as you do(or someone else you know) watching a football game of their favourite team?
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If you broaden the category a bit, and include neo-Westerns there are plenty of good examples. Modern ones include No Country for Old Men, Django Unchained, The Hateful Eight, 3:10 to Yuma, The Revenant and True Grit (a remake, I know). There are probably more.
Scorsese is a legend, but he's wrong on this one.
I see comicbook movies more a continuation of the Cold War era films where the audience was always supposed to cheer for the virtuous Americans upholding liberty and virtue, and scowl at the evil foreigners, usually Russian or attempting an unremarkable Eastern European accent. Films like Rambo, etc.
Though I suppose Westerns were the precursor so you're not exactly wrong (i.e. the good guys vs. dem 'injuns!).
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But those are recent ones. Now we have basically lots of comic movies following eachother quickly.
Aren’t there a million Clint Eastwood ones as well? Those would be less recent.
Can someone summarise this thread?
Scorsese dissed Marvel movies and now we're all shitting on Marvel movies and posting clips of Marvel fans acting crazy.
Marvel fans, like kids? Aren't they supposed to act crazy?
Cinema has always had tiers in terms of the output. Marvel movies are occasionally good fun to me, a 48-year-old contrary fecker, I imagine they'd be awesome to most teens. I have kids who love them.
From a quick read of his gripe, I think Scorsese's issue might be Capitalism.
Why do Marvel fans care though? If they enjoy the movies they can continue doing that even if a 79 year old director thinks they are crap.
The opening credits to Guardians 2 are even better than a football in the groin.
Because for an opinion to become irrefutable it has to be opposed.
I kind of feel like thats a tiny bit of a misrepresentation of Marvel. The stories were kind of progressive when they were written, its trivial stuff now 60 years later but it just kind of seems like they're an ill fit for the box your trying to shove them in. Like all 3 Captain America movies are about him rebelling against a corrupt and detached american government. The 2nd film had a villain with a shit russian accent but he was looking for revenge for the avengers basically killing his family as an obvious metaphor for the american government dropping bombs on civilians. The justice porn, vigilante angle fits much more than the Chritopher Reeve truth, justice and the american way shtick which just isn't used.
I think their closer to old school adventure movies personally. The kind Indiana Jones paid homage to. I dont think theres any real world meaning or relevance to be taken from the most recent thor movie beyond jeff goldblum is neat.
Definitely how I view them. Westerns were all the rage for a period, and slowly people's tastes changed and we saw less of them. Still see them but far less than studios previously churned out.