Martin Ødegaard | Arsenal player

onetwo3oclock4oclockrock said:
30 mill, or something. Ødegaard isn't developing like he should in RM, and the player wants to leave, so not surprising that they are offloading him.

Remember Bruno was sold from Samdoria and back to Portugal for 8,5 mill, and KdB from Chelsea to Wolfsburg for 18 mill, when they were one year older than Ødegaard. So, you really can't tell where they'll end up at that age.
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This. If Martin can stay away from injurys, I give it a 80% chance that this is the correct reference for Martin. And the last 20% I give to Eriksen level.

However if these injuries and niggles keeps on — I see an very avarage player.
 
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Suedesi said:
:lol:
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onetwo3oclock4oclockrock said:
Many experts (spanish expert) held 21 year old Ødegaard as the second best player in La Liga 19/20, behind Messi, before his jumpers knee set a stop to his season.
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Suedesi said:
The other guy was claiming that he was the best player in the league after to Messi
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See how nothing in your post is true?

Then you've seemingly gone ahead and assumed that since I confirmed what he was saying, that many La Liga experts were rating him (or rather his form) second only to Messi at the time, I believed the same. I don't, for the record. Ødegaard has potential, but he's still got it all to prove. Jesse Lingard has shown similar form over a couple of months on two occasions, it means nothing if you're not able to keep it up. Something Ødegaard has yet to do.
 
Halftrack said:
See how nothing in your post is true?

Then you've seemingly gone ahead and assumed that since I confirmed what he was saying, that many La Liga experts were rating him (or rather his form) second only to Messi at the time, I believed the same.
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Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Edit: Oh, It was directed at Suedesi?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me they are two big claims. :lol:

De Jong took his side to a EL final remember, and CL semi.

The Messi one should be easy enough to back up with stats though?
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me they are two big claims. :lol:

De Jong took his side to a EL final remember, and CL semi.

The Messi one should be easy enough to back up with stats though?
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me they are two big claims. :lol:

De Jong took his side to a EL final remember, and CL semi.

The Messi one should be easy enough to back up with stats though?
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Have a look here:

Vs Messi stats - https://imgshare.io/image/peUNrH

https://imgshare.io/image/peUpyd

team of the year18/19 Ersdivise. Only player outside Ajax and PSV to make it.

https://imgshare.io/image/peUrcf
 
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Halftrack said:
I was replying to Sudesi, who got it in their head that you were saying Ødegaard was the second best player in La Liga.
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Yes, there is a lot of straw men and deliberately misreading in this forum.

If someone somehow can unlock his talent, but it seems a long way off (which was my opening statement), is read as: Ødegaard is as good as Bruno and KDB.
When i'm saying it's very unlikely, but if he somehow manage to max his potential he'll be up there.
 
The claim vs. deJong is correct. Ødegaard was voted into the team of the year, and was player of the month etc. He also had great stats and if you had watched the games that season, Ødegaard in many games had an extreme number of key passes, assists, touches, dribbles etc. Ajax tried hard to get him for a reason. After christmas that season, Ødegaard created the most chances of all players in Eredivisie.

As for the Messi claim, yes it is correct. Before the jumpers knee injury, Ødegaard was phenomenal. He was voted best player of LaLiga in the first month he played. And he destroyed Atletico Madrid completely. He was better than Messi when he they played Barca. I watched the games and saw the stats. That autumn, Ødegaard was high in stats and all over the pitch, delivering great performances.

Then came the injury. He slowly degressed and became a shadow of what he was before it.

https://www.besoccer.com/new/odegaard-the-most-attacking-player-in-la-liga-ahead-of-messi-778747
https://www.squawka.com/en/real-sociedad-2-2-barcelona-match-analysis-odegaard-messi-pique/

Edit. There are propably a lot more stats and sources, but most are for the whole season. Ødegaard was better before the injury at Real Sociedad. At Vitesse he was coming back from an injury and therefore better after christmas.

Again, if he stays injury free. Class player. But he seems fragile. Have had a lot of injuries.
 
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onetwo3oclock4oclockrock said:
Yes, there is a lot of straw men and deliberately misreading in this forum.

If someone somehow can unlock his talent, but it seems a long way off (which was my opening statement), is read as: Ødegaard is as good as Bruno and KDB.
When i'm saying it's very unlikely, but if he somehow manage to max his potential he'll be up there.
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There is no strawman being made, people know exactly what you said and that is quite an outrageous claim. It’s as silly as people saying that Ravel Morrison can reach Bruno’s level if someone can finally unlock his talent & max his potential
 
Cardboard elk said:
The claim vs. deJong is correct. Ødegaard was voted into the team of the year, and was player of the month etc. He also had great stats and if you had watched the games that season, Ødegaard in many games had an extreme number of key passes, assists, touches, dribbles etc. Ajax tried hard to get him for a reason. After christmas that season, Ødegaard created the most chances of all players in Eredivisie.

As for the Messi claim, yes it is correct. Before the jumpers knee injury, Ødegaard was phenomenal. He was voted best player of LaLiga in the first month he played. And he destroyed Atletico Madrid completely. He was better than Messi when he they played Barca. I watched the games and saw the stats. That autumn, Ødegaard was high in stats and all over the pitch, delivering great performances.

Then came the injury. He slowly degressed and became a shadow of what he was before it.

https://www.besoccer.com/new/odegaard-the-most-attacking-player-in-la-liga-ahead-of-messi-778747
https://www.squawka.com/en/real-sociedad-2-2-barcelona-match-analysis-odegaard-messi-pique/
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feck me the bias.

after his spell in Holland every single top club in Europe wanted De Jong and he was instantly installed into Barca’s first team. Your guy on the other hand was loaned out yet again and no top club was seriously interested in him.

Eredivisie Player of the Season, UEFA midfielder of the season and CL semi finalist.

“correct”
 
Cardboard elk said:
Then came the injury. He slowly degressed and became a shadow of what he was before it.
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Not going into the better then Messi/De Jong etc, but that last sentence sums it up.

Most people here are judging him from his Arsenal performances, cause that's all they have seen of him. In that regard I can understand all the :lol:. Cause these last 18 months he has been a shadow of his former self.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me the bias.

after his spell in Holland every single top club in Europe wanted De Jong and he was instantly installed into Barca’s first team. Your guy on the other hand was loaned out yet again and no top club was seriously interested in him.

Eredivisie Player of the Season, UEFA midfielder of the season and CL semi finalist.

“correct”
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It’s not bias, it’s in the opinion of Spanish and Dutch press at the time.

You guys really need to stop attributing everything written by Norwegians about Ødegaard as bias. It’s cheap, and in this case absolute bullshit as there’s even fecking citations for you to follow.
 
Forget about Sociedad, he was brilliant at Arsenal too. Half of the passes below were at Arsenal. He would've got double digit assists if our finishing was better. Maybe when we get Haaland next year...
 
Eriku said:
It’s not bias, it’s in the opinion of Spanish and Dutch press at the time.

You guys really need to stop attributing everything written by Norwegians about Ødegaard as bias. It’s cheap, and in this case absolute bullshit as there’s even fecking citations for you to follow.
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One won UEFA midfielder of the year whilst playing in Holland yet Ødegaard did as well, can you even fecking hear yourself?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
One won UEFA midfielder of the year whilst playing in Holland yet Ødegaard did as well, can you even fecking hear yourself?
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One was playing for a stacked team that was in the UCL, the other was playing for a mid-table team most nobody has heard of.

And I’m not saying it, journos in the league were saying it. I’ll bet you didn’t see a single fecking match he played in Holland.

Why so antagonistic? Are you incapable of talking to people with respect?
 
LazyGoal said:
Well. Would kinda be the same if Solskjær gave the same message to Greenwood last season after injurys, that england trip and how many games without a goal?

Thing is that Ødegaard proved himself in Holland on the same level as de Jong in a lesser team, and created stats on Messi level in La Liga (which madrid have none of) before he got injured. Martin wanted another year at Real Sociedad, but Madrid brought him back a year early just to not give confidence and a good postion.

Madrid dosent really have midfielder like him for the next 3-4 years and are pretty broke, so the whole thing dosent add up. At least not from a 22 years old perspective.
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He could have but he didn't because Greenwood was rated for years and he kept delivering at every level.

I'm not saying Odegaard isn't good enough, maybe Madrid think he isn't good enough to be a regular in their team.
 
Eriku said:
One was playing for a stacked team that was in the UCL, the other was playing for a mid-table team most nobody has heard of. If he was as good as De Jong, why did every top side in Europe want De Jong directly in their first eleven yet Ødegaard was simply sent on loan again? It doesn’t add up.

And I’m not saying it, journos in the league were saying it. I’ll bet you didn’t see a single fecking match he played in Holland.

Why so antagonistic? Are you incapable of talking to people with respect?
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What journos are saying Ødegaard was as good as De Jong in Holland? Show us.

And of course it’s a bloody stupid opinion, like claiming Lingard at WHU was as good as Bruno but that Bruno was in a ”stacked team”.

I’m antagonistic because you came claiming there’s no Norwegian bias despite these posts all coming from…. Norwegians.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
feck me the bias.

after his spell in Holland every single top club in Europe wanted De Jong and he was instantly installed into Barca’s first team. Your guy on the other hand was loaned out yet again and no top club was seriously interested in him.

Eredivisie Player of the Season, UEFA midfielder of the season and CL semi finalist.

“correct”
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Luuk de Jong was never that sought after.
Tihi
 
Ødegaard said:
Luuk de Jong was never that sought after.
Tihi
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Aye, that would make more sense in fairness.

As I’ve said before, I’m happy for his move and I think he’ll do much better now he’s in it long term for a club that will take care of him and look after his long term interests.

Was he ever as good as Messi even for a short spell, clearly not. Was he as good as De Jong Holland… only if it was Luuk we’re talking about.
 
VorZakone said:
When did De Jong take his side to a EL final?
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Creative there I was, was involved in a EL final in his debut season, then as a starter took his side to a CL semi final and was also awarded UEFA midfielder of the year.

Frankie was absolutely outstanding in Holland which is why every single top side in Europe wanted him and why he went directly in Barça’s starting midfield.
 
There's some revisionism from Ødegaard detractors here. He *was* outstanding for La Real before the injury. And for Vitesse. This is all easily documented. He was not the second best footballer in La Liga, but his was form that season was at that level.

Then there is also no doubt that he has regressed tremendously after the jumper's knee diagnosis and it remains to be seen what will become of him. I think it will take time before he finds himself with his "new body". Ronaldo had jumper's knee and changed his playing style. Ødegaard needs to find a way to offer value with the limitations of the injury. It is sad to see him play with fear.
 
I am Dutch, so I’ve seen him quite a bit. When he played for Vitesse he was absolutely mesmerizing. I watched his every game back then, because he was beautifully to watch. And he surely seemed every bit as talented as Frenkie de Jong back then. Both very technically gifted, Frenkie more physically gifted and Odegaard more creative.

When he moved to Sociedad, I continued to follow him. He was a real big hit in his first few months. Got player of the month in his first month. In december he was competing with Messi on most chances created and dribbles. But then he got the jumper knee. After that he went on a downward spiral. When he came back, he didn’t dribble or tried risky passes as much. He wasn’t the same player.

But still when the season finished, Zidane wanted him back at Real, I guess expecting him to be the player he was before his injury. But at Madrid he played without confidence in the few chances he got. So he couldn’t impress and win a starting spot. And Zidane did not have the time to give him a couple games to regain his confidence. So he wanted out after 6 months and went to Arsenal. There he started a bit meh imo too. But after a couple of games, around the West Ham game, I felt he was coming back and you could see the real Odegaard. He was clearly Arsenal’s best player in that period, but then got injured again. And when he came back from that, the season was practically finished.

In the last 16 months he has been a bit injury prone and it has halted his progression seriously. He also is 22 and has changed teams 7 times already. Which is insane. Finally getting stability at Arsenal will do him well. I truly believe if he can stay fit and regain his confidence, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league.
 
Quality control
Halftrack said:
See how nothing in your post is true?

Then you've seemingly gone ahead and assumed that since I confirmed what he was saying, that many La Liga experts were rating him (or rather his form) second only to Messi at the time, I believed the same. I don't, for the record. Ødegaard has potential, but he's still got it all to prove. Jesse Lingard has shown similar form over a couple of months on two occasions, it means nothing if you're not able to keep it up. Something Ødegaard has yet to do.
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:lol: FFS
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
What journos are saying Ødegaard was as good as De Jong in Holland? Show us.

And of course it’s a bloody stupid opinion, like claiming Lingard at WHU was as good as Bruno but that Bruno was in a ”stacked team”.

I’m antagonistic because you came claiming there’s no Norwegian bias despite these posts all coming from…. Norwegians.
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Who said he’s as good? They play different positions, De Jong has two years on him, and has had an easier trajectory in his development (Ødegaard might well have benfitted greatly off choosing a different club than Madrid). But Ajax were chasing him both initially and after his last season in Holland, he made the team of the season on OPTA stats as the only non-PSV or Ajax player, and was justly viewed as incredibly exciting. Then he went to Real Sociedad and didn’t skip a beat and lit it up in La Liga.

To dismiss the excitement around him as pure Norwegian bias is nonsense, there are non-Norwegians piping up. I also see a lot of stupid statements about his Arsenal stint, when most anybody who watched him for them regularly found that he offered a touch of class, even if he’s playing within himself these days.

Stop fecking pretending like you know what is going on in people’s heads, and start engaging with the specifics. It’s fecking tiring and I’m done with it.
 
At least try to hide the nationality biases somewhat ffs. Sorry that people don't rate Odegaard like you guys do.
 
onetwo3oclock4oclockrock said:
30 mill, or something. Ødegaard isn't developing like he should in RM, and the player wants to leave, so not surprising that they are offloading him.

Remember Bruno was sold from Samdoria and back to Portugal for 8,5 mill, and KdB from Chelsea to Wolfsburg for 18 mill, when they were one year older than Ødegaard. So, you really can't tell where they'll end up at that age.
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That is true, but it's the exception rather than the norm. For every KdB or Bruno (add Salah here as well who was also discarded by Chelsea and later exploded into one of the best), there's hundreds if not thousands of players that didn't quite make it. The odds are not in his favor.

All I'm saying is for a player that might have been rated at one point as a really bright star in La Liga, he somehow didn't develop as expected and Real Madrid were happy to cash in, relatively cheaply. So that's more significant imo than him lighting up La Liga at one point according to pundits.

Good luck to him though, as I said I have nothing against the player.
 
LazyGoal said:
Well. Would kinda be the same if Solskjær gave the same message to Greenwood last season after injurys, that england trip and how many games without a goal?

Thing is that Ødegaard proved himself in Holland on the same level as de Jong in a lesser team, and created stats on Messi level in La Liga (which madrid have none of) before he got injured. Martin wanted another year at Real Sociedad, but Madrid brought him back a year early just to not give confidence and a good postion.

Madrid dosent really have midfielder like him for the next 3-4 years and are pretty broke, so the whole thing dosent add up. At least not from a 22 years old perspective.
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OK fine, he was amazing before he got injured.

Then he got injured.

Real Madrid assessed the player after the injury and were happy to sell. For half the price of Ben White.

Half of this thread is pure conjecture "if someone could unlock his potential" and "if he can come back like before" and other piffle.
 
Suedesi said:
OK fine, he was amazing before he got injured.

Then he got injured.

Real Madrid assessed the player after the injury and were happy to sell.
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Yes. Take away the negative bias from Zidane (cant build teams + the stuff with his son vs Odegaard) and Ancelotti (dissmissing him at the club upon arrival and calling him a PR-signing) and I would 100% agree.

I stand by my claim that this is as strange as us giving up on Greenwood.
 
What are people arguing about here? At Sociedad before the injury he was amazing, Pogba at Juve levels of amazing. That shouldn't be up for debate if you bothered to watch him. Arsenal obviously hope he can get back to that, if he does this is a huge bargain.
 
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RooneyLegend said:
What are people arguing about here? At Sociedad before the injury he was amazing, Pogba at Juve levels of amazing. That shouldn't be up for debate of you bothered to watch him. Arsenal obviously hop he can get back to that, if he does this is a huge bargain.
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Some people, probably owing to the hype around Ødegaard having died down, have been ridiculing the suggestion that he's ever done well.

Point out that he was rated about the same as de Jong while both were playing in the Eredivisie? This must be false as no one came in for him like they did de Jong (never mind that he was Real Madrid's property already, and most probably figured that they weren't going to let such an exciting prospect go to.)

Say that many La Liga experts rated only Messi ahead of him in the early months of the 19/20 campaign, before he faded away (reportedly due to his jumper's knee)? Let's ridicule the guy saying it while also misrepresenting what he actually said, then refuse to back down.

You know, standard Caf stuff, really.
 
Mmm, i think his real sociedad loan got/gets bigged up beyond his actual performances due to his own hype and real madrid's. He was great(before the injury), but, not De Bruyne-at-wolfsburg levels of "holy llama this is a god among men"

Or Graelish for villa last season as another example
 
giorno said:
Mmm, i think his real sociedad loan got/gets bigged up beyond his actual performances due to his own hype and real madrid's. He was great(before the injury), but, not De Bruyne-at-wolfsburg levels of "holy llama this is a god among men"

Or Graelish for villa last season as another example
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Disagree. He really was great. His passing, dribbling and even shooting was of a very high level that year. The way he was passing was incredible, constantly breaking lines. Very confident. And don’t forget he was only 20/21 years old, Graelish wasn’t much better if at all last year at 24/25 years old.

Some people on here are talking about him like he is an old player who is finished. When actually he still is a young player with great potential.
 
Sounds like Arteta had the same talk with him that he previously had with Willian. :D
 
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