Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

peridigm said:
He's not suited to the PL so I would not be bothered to see him go to another PL club, except maybe City. You know Pep would have him playing like Ronaldinho. Too bad we can't get him a loan to another PL club to see if it's him or the manager. He'd do well in Italy, Spain or France.
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He isn't? What makes you think that?
 
Question in my head now is: How much would you pay for a player who does not make it to his national team?

If that figure is not something even remotely similar to the 50 million we supposedly paid for Martial, I doubt we would sell easily. Martial has to kick up a public fuss (and in the process turn some fans against him) or I think he stays.
 
Yeesheng said:
Question in my head now is: How much would you pay for a player who does not make it to his national team?

If that figure is not something even remotely similar to the 50 million we supposedly paid for Martial, I doubt we would sell easily. Martial has to kick up a public fuss (and in the process turn some fans against him) or I think he stays.
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Don't think world cup squad makes any difference. SMS played twice for Serbia in 3 years.
 
I'm a bit resigned to the fact that Martial is just not Jose's cup of tea, and he is best off playing under a different manager. Jose would probably put up with Martial if he was as good or delivered as well as Hazard or even a pre-Utd Alexis, but he hasn't, even in his best patches of form. For sure, Jose holds his defensive liabilities against him, which is rather unfair for someone that really is a forward, if not a central striker, but Alexis & Hazard have at least put in better shifts defensively, and have better offensive repertoires.

I'd hate to see him go, but it's definitely more likely than not at this point, so might as well make the best of a tough situation. Would I swap him for Willian? Probably not, unless there is a lot of money coming our way, and even then, I'd be wary as I can definitely see him blossoming under the right system, and rubbing Jose's nose into it to boot. Definitely would rather see him go abroad, if at all possible.
 
peridigm said:
He's not suited to the PL so I would not be bothered to see him go to another PL club, except maybe City. You know Pep would have him playing like Ronaldinho. Too bad we can't get him a loan to another PL club to see if it's him or the manager. He'd do well in Italy, Spain or France.
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Load of rubbish mate.

What was his first season in the PL? What was his form in January?

Edit - CAF sports psychologists back out in full force. They'll tell you all about a player's mentality without ever having a single conversation with them.
 
kouroux said:
That is not my point. You are risking to have a player very motivated to play us at the very least twice season if he is sold for them.
We are a terrible team for young attackers to blossom and the less said about Jose the better. There is a chance, even little that he'd be better for them
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There is always a chance. I stand by my assessment he won't tear it up for another PL team. Too inconsistent. Reminds me of Nani.

JPRouve said:
He isn't? What makes you think that?
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His performances.

PepsiCola said:
Load of rubbish mate.

What was his first season in the PL? What was his form in January?

Edit - CAF sports psychologists back out in full force. They'll tell you all about a player's mentality without ever having a single conversation with them.
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CAF logic. Player scores a world class goal against Liverpool in his first season and he's now the next Messi or Ronaldo. He should have better numbers for someone playing in his position. He's had his chances to prove himself. Everyone was screaming for Martial and Rashford to start last season. We weren't that great. Blame it on Jose if you want. Never mentioned his attitude but since your brought it up, does he appear to be happy at United. Are you happy with what he's contributed? Blame it on Jose if you want. What happened to only wanting players who want to play for United and appear to give a shit.

How much time do you want to give him? Do we not sign someone who can take his place to have cover when he continues his current form?
 
Normally I wouldn't worry about selling to a PL rival, as we've never really been in the business of doing that. Jose has previous for selling to direct domestic rivals though so I can actually see the Chelsea transfer happening. Especially as he wants to be a striker, which is where they'll probably use him.

Hopefully he'll go to Juventus (if he goes)
 
kouroux said:
I think you are way OTT with your criticism. He doesn't even need to tear it up in the PL to annoy us.
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I don't think so. I like Martial. It's okay to like someone and be critical. Same goes for or any of our players who we know are good and should be doing better. None of our players are immune to criticism. Not even DDG.

We're talking about future potential vs past performances. What in the last 3 years has he shown that makes you think he's going to be a world class player for us when we need him to be? We have a gap to fill. We're not in a position to wait on players to come good.
 
peridigm said:
I don't think so. I like Martial. It's okay to like someone and be critical. Same goes for or any of our players who we know are good and should be doing better. None of our players are immune to criticism. Not even DDG.

We're talking about future potential vs past performances. What in the last 3 years has he shown that makes you think he's going to be a world class player for us when we need him to be? We have a gap to fill. We're not in a position to wait on players to come good.
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When did I ever mention him being World class in the future ?
 
kouroux said:
When did I ever mention him being World class in the future ?
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Sorry, not directed at you personally more towards those who think he should stay regardless. Besides, being worried about him going to another PL team and being motivated to play against us at minimum twice per season isn't a compelling enough argument for me that we should keep him.

Many want to blame Sanchez coming was Martial's demise. The rest blame Jose. We wouldn't have Sanchez if Martial was doing his part and had Jose's confidence. Bottom line, Sanchez coming in should have made Martial more determined to keep his place. Even without Sanchez he was never a gauranteed starter. At the end of the day fans don't select the team, the manager does.
 
peridigm said:
Sorry, not directed at you personally more towards those who think he should stay regardless. Besides, being worried about him going to another PL team and being motivated to play against us at minimum twice per season isn't a compelling enough argument for me that we should keep him.

Many want to blame Sanchez coming was Martial's demise. The rest blame Jose. We wouldn't have Sanchez if Martial was doing his part and had Jose's confidence. Bottom line, Sanchez coming in should have made Martial more determined to keep his place. Even without Sanchez he was never a gauranteed starter. At the end of the day fans don't select the team, the manager does.
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Again I never said nor meant that we should keep him. I'm all for his departures, just that he should be sold abroad
 
roonster09 said:
Don't think world cup squad makes any difference. SMS played twice for Serbia in 3 years.
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He moved for 10 million euros or something like that right? I am sure he is a full international now and a first teamer for Serbia at this point now when other clubs want to buy him from Lazio for crazy sums.
 
peridigm said:
There is always a chance. I stand by my assessment he won't tear it up for another PL team. Too inconsistent. Reminds me of Nani.


His performances.

CAF logic. Player scores a world class goal against Liverpool in his first season and he's now the next Messi or Ronaldo. He should have better numbers for someone playing in his position. He's had his chances to prove himself. Everyone was screaming for Martial and Rashford to start last season. We weren't that great. Blame it on Jose if you want. Never mentioned his attitude but since your brought it up, does he appear to be happy at United. Are you happy with what he's contributed? Blame it on Jose if you want. What happened to only wanting players who want to play for United and appear to give a shit.

How much time do you want to give him? Do we not sign someone who can take his place to have cover when he continues his current form?
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Except no one is applying this 'CAF logic' which is clearly a figment of your imagination.

Anthony Martial has nearly 40 goals and assists in 86 premier league appearances. That's a very good return given he's been in the 19-22 age bracket in this time, has most played on the left wing and for a good chunk of those appearances has seemingly not gelled with his manager which has resulted in many of those being substitute appearances.

I mean, if we're bemoaning the logic of others, let's at least try to use some ourselves, right?
 
Yeesheng said:
He moved for 10 million euros or something like that right? I am sure he is a full international now and a first teamer for Serbia at this point now when other clubs want to buy him from Lazio for crazy sums.
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He isn't regular as apparently he doesn't suit how coach wants to play.
 
People thinking that Jose is responsible for the development of the players are deluded. No chance. Jose will not care about your development, you should be the one to care. Why? Cause we are flipping paying you millions to deliver on your promise (contract) and you haven't.

I will not shed a tear if Martial goes, but I want our money back.
 
It's like a running theme at Man Utd for a very long time. Play good, get benched. Play bad, get benched for 3 months. Expecting consistency when they aren't even given a consistent amount of game ever, not even 2 games in a row. Shame that it's happening to a great player like Martial.
 
RU Devil said:
I'm a bit resigned to the fact that Martial is just not Jose's cup of tea, and he is best off playing under a different manager. Jose would probably put up with Martial if he was as good or delivered as well as Hazard or even a pre-Utd Alexis, but he hasn't, even in his best patches of form. For sure, Jose holds his defensive liabilities against him, which is rather unfair for someone that really is a forward, if not a central striker, but Alexis & Hazard have at least put in better shifts defensively, and have better offensive repertoires.

I'd hate to see him go, but it's definitely more likely than not at this point, so might as well make the best of a tough situation. Would I swap him for Willian? Probably not, unless there is a lot of money coming our way, and even then, I'd be wary as I can definitely see him blossoming under the right system, and rubbing Jose's nose into it to boot. Definitely would rather see him go abroad, if at all possible.
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The problem for Martial by now with both Mourinho and Deschamps is not his ability to track back, nor is his ability to score or play a precise pass in the box overlooked. The problem is that he is so weak at imposing on the general attacking play for a general attacking player, and so seldom gets himself in positions to score or assist for a forward/striker.

I’m guessing it’s to do with his game understanding and lack of imagination or mental proactivity, because noone who worked with him ever really said he doesn’t work enough, is lazy, disobeyed tactical orders or lacked in any necessary skills. So it leaves that.

If you fit a managers playing style to a tee, or is the best attacking outlet at a club, you may still do very well for a good club. But if a manager at a club aiming for the top has to change his playing style or leve out other very good players to accomodate that, a goal/assist every other game is not enough. You must either rack up Lewandovski numbers or influence play bigtime. Martial is not close to either by now, and none of us are in a position to even guess if he has a realistic possibility to do it under Mourinho or even most managers.
 
R o o K said:
People thinking that Jose is responsible for the development of the players are deluded. No chance. Jose will not care about your development, you should be the one to care. Why? Cause we are flipping paying you millions to deliver on your promise (contract) and you haven't.

I will not shed a tear if Martial goes, but I want our money back.
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This point has nothing to do with Martial but tha's nonsense, good coaches will tell you one thing, "I'm a teacher". They will tell you that in all sports, at all level, they will tell you that in the NBA, NFL, Super Rugby and in Football. This new idea that player development is not part of being a coach is bizarre, particularly when people are perfectly happy crediting coaches when a player improves but when he doesn't it's solely on the player.

And on Martial, we are talking about a player that had around 50 league games when we purchased him, a fair amount of them were sub appearances, he has been developed as as striker and at 19 years old was in the thick of his development. People in France were very surprised by the fee because he was all potential, he had little experience and needed development. So if United didn't want to develop him or thought that he was the finish product then United failed badly in terms of scouting and should have left Martial alone.
 
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JPRouve said:
This point has nothing to do with Martial but tha's nonsense, good coaches will tell you one thing, "I'm a teacher". They will tell you that in all sports, at all level, they will tell you that in the NBA, NFL, Super Rugby and in Football. This new idea that player development is not part of being a coach, is bizarre, particularly when people are perfectly happy crediting coaches when a player improves but when he doesn't it's solely on the player.
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Always find this funny
 
R o o K said:
People thinking that Jose is responsible for the development of the players are deluded. No chance. Jose will not care about your development, you should be the one to care. Why? Cause we are flipping paying you millions to deliver on your promise (contract) and you haven't.

I will not shed a tear if Martial goes, but I want our money back.
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Rubbish. I won't bother explaining why given someone else already has.
 
Club should give him back his shirt #9. Maybe he will grow into it with some juicy ego carrot seen as a million's £ worth of stick clearly isn't working out all too well in this particular case.
 
Yeesheng said:
Question in my head now is: How much would you pay for a player who does not make it to his national team?

If that figure is not something even remotely similar to the 50 million we supposedly paid for Martial, I doubt we would sell easily. Martial has to kick up a public fuss (and in the process turn some fans against him) or I think he stays.
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Maybe it will be a straight swap for Sandro.
 
JPRouve said:
This point has nothing to do with Martial but tha's nonsense, good coaches will tell you one thing, "I'm a teacher". They will tell you that in all sports, at all level, they will tell you that in the NBA, NFL, Super Rugby and in Football. This new idea that player development is not part of being a coach is bizarre, particularly when people are perfectly happy crediting coaches when a player improves but when he doesn't it's solely on the player.

And on Martial, we are talking about a player that had around 50 league games when we purchased him, a fair amount of them were sub appearances, he has been developed as as striker and at 19 years old was in the thick of his development. People in France were very surprised by the fee because he was all potential, he had little experience and needed development. So if United didn't want to develop him or thought that he was the finish product then United failed badly in terms of scouting and should have left Martial alone.
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Stop this nonsense about age. Messi was 17 and playing for Barcelona. Remember Ronaldo? He stayed late after every training session to train more. And that is why he is world class, one of the best.

Jose was not hired to babysit our players and has no time for that. You get paid obscene money, either perform, or move to another team. He is here to win trophies and will do whatever it takes to achieve that.
 
R o o K said:
Stop this nonsense about age. Messi was 17 and playing for Barcelona. Remember Ronaldo? He stayed late after every training session to train more. And that is why he is world class, one of the best.

Jose was not hired to babysit our players and has no time for that. You get paid obscene money, either perform, or move to another team. He is here to win trophies and will do whatever it takes to achieve that.
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Whats a load of crap! You're going to reference two players who are 2 of the best players to ever play the game, the latter who wasn't at all consistent at the top level at this stage of his career?

Also with regards to training and dedication, most of the players do extra training its the norm now.
 
Cassidy said:
Whats a load of crap! You're going to reference two players who are 2 of the best players to ever play the game, the latter who wasn't at all consistent at the top level at this stage of his career?

Also with regards to training and dedication, most of the players do extra training its the norm now.
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Messi wasn't even starter at 17, he was at 19 years old and he is arguably the best player ever. He also has been coached and developed like every single players, people don't exactly think that the likes of SAF are picnicking during the week? The technical and tactical drills are meant to develop players individually and also build a better collective cohesion, the video sessions, the work with physical trainers and all the the tools used to develop players.
 
Yeesheng said:
Question in my head now is: How much would you pay for a player who does not make it to his national team?

If that figure is not something even remotely similar to the 50 million we supposedly paid for Martial, I doubt we would sell easily. Martial has to kick up a public fuss (and in the process turn some fans against him) or I think he stays.
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City paid £57mil for a CB who has never even got a cap for France-Laporte.
 
Cassidy said:
Whats a load of crap! You're going to reference two players who are 2 of the best players to ever play the game, the latter who wasn't at all consistent at the top level at this stage of his career?

Also with regards to training and dedication, most of the players do extra training its the norm now.
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I use reference of world class players, what is your reference. Players playing in league one?
 
Shockingly bad decision making last night. Made the wrong pass every single time from a threatening position. Hope he has played his last game for us.

But Martial FC supporters will still talk about his talent. At 22 if you are still being talked about what you can do, you are never going to it.
 
Sell and reinvest money on someone more consistent. I can't see much difference between his first season and third. Looks to have stagnated quite a lot.
 
I think he should have come on earlier yesterday, personally. but that left hand side is a joke, it's so unproductive. We need a left footer that can play there when teams sit in like that.
 
NikSab said:
Shockingly bad decision making last night. Made the wrong pass every single time from a threatening position. Hope he has played his last game for us.

But Martial FC supporters will still talk about his talent. At 22 if you are still being talked about what you can do, you are never going to it.
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Put the ball on Pogba's head for our best chance of the game.
 
cyberman said:
Martial couldn't lace their boots sadly.
He's looking more and more like a Zaha to me.
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Zaha is a good player, developing into a top player. The problem martial has is that he isn’t afforded the same developmental time at United. There is a very good player in there waiting to come out but he probably won’t get that that time with us. So, if he wants to go sell abroad with a sell-on clause and first refusal.
 
ash_86 said:
Sell and reinvest money on someone more consistent. I can't see much difference between his first season and third. Looks to have stagnated quite a lot.
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We've already tried replacing him with Sanchez and we've been worse off. People should be careful what they wish for, especially when wanting us to discard our most talented and productive attackers and with our transfer-record on top of that.

cyberman said:
Martial couldn't lace their boots sadly.
He's looking more and more like a Zaha to me.
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Neither could they themselves at 22 years of age, especially not under Mourinho. Zaha at 25 is finally starting to mature putting his talent into consistant performances and productivity, still can't match Martial though.
 
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