Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

Sp00ks11 said:
There is no patience with football fans these days, always after the shiny new signing, only to slate him a year down the line. Before Sanchez arrival martial was doing ok. When he first arrived and was played as a cf he also was doing fine, but constant chopping him in and out of the team, playing him on the left and then mourinho chucking him under the bus at every given opportunity has massively hindered his progress. As previously mentioned his goals/assists to mins are not that bad at all.

I hope he joins Tottenham and tears it up in the league, just to see the anti martial brigade turn into the 'why did we sell him' brigade. Memphis by the way isn't doing to badly albeit in an inferior league.. similar numbers to hazard in fact before he joined Chelsea from the same inferior league. :rolleyes:

I like entertaining and exciting football and Martial, along with Pogba even though they are both still very inconsistent are two of the only players who excite me when watching our tumescent football.
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Agreed. They're the only two players, along with DDG, that can excite when watching this team under Mourinho, to be frank.
 
22 Year Martial being shifted/sold while we have brought in a 29 year old replacement for the Left wing and are now looking for a 29 year old replacement for the right wing who will need to be replaced in a couple of years.

I like where we are going with this building for the future thing.
 
Sayros said:
Agreed. They're the only two players, along with DDG, that can excite when watching this team under Mourinho, to be frank.
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I wonder if those same people who are happy Martial may be leaving were also hoping De Gea would leave as he couldn't deal with crosses when he first joined. :lol:
 
Mourinho’s aim is to win the league and he doesn’t want to rely on youth. Bringing Willian to replace Martial is mental, for me I dont think Jose is planning on staying much at United and he only wants more trophies to retain his status as a winner and then feck off to another club, giving up on Martial is bullshit thats all I know
 
Think Martial leaving will be the first time i'm genuinely pissed off with the club.

This will be the worst decision we've made in a long time (Rooney long contract/Moyes was the last)
 
Fredo said:
Mourinho’s aim is to win the league and he doesn’t want to rely on youth. Bringing Willian to replace Martial is mental, for me I dont think Jose is planning on staying much at United and he only wants more trophies to retain his status as a winner and then feck off to another club, giving up on Martial is bullshit thats all I know
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Worryingly i think this is correct. We may get short term success through such a method, but it would pain me to see martial thriving at another club.
 
VeevaVee said:
Seems more like it may be the player that doesn't have patience to me.
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Can't blame him even though I do think he's been patient.

When he was finally given a little run in the first team he was one of our best players only to be moved for our new signing. In his 3 game run (I think that's the most amount of games he's played in a row under José) he had 3 goals and 1 assist. Then, when Alexis proved to not be an upgrade on him as of yet, he still wasn't given a run back in the position. What more could he do? He wants to play football, has been in and out of the team for two years trying to earn José's trust, only for him to finally get a run on the left, do well, and still no have José's trust. It's obvious he just isn't trusted by José so I don't think you can label him as impatient for wanting to leave at this point.
 
sal klita said:
Martial is the player that symbolizing why the club should appoint DOF. The whole dealing with him is ridiculous. The club made all efforts to make him fail here. It's in opposition to the traditions. Bad times or good times the club always was capable to develop huge young talents and it should be one of the requirements from manager. Of course not just young player because he young.

Mourinho have one of the worst records in dealing with young players, even at his peak. Only worst board in any top club can prefer Mourinho.
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A DoF would completely exacerbate the problem. The players Mourinho has signed are getting plenty of game time when fit (Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Bailly etc), it's the players that his predecessors have signed that clearly Mourinho doesn't trust. If we had a director of football then you could bet the majority of players signed by them would be on the bench, whereas the players given the green light by the manager would be playing. They would not be able to force the manager to play the fans' favourite players, and if they could it would make judging the managers performance completely impossible.

A director of football completely muddies the water in terms of accountability. If United stop progressing and do not win trophies, Mourinho is at fault. The blame will completely lie at his door... The same way it lay with LVG and Moyes. With a DoF who do you blame... The players that he signed that are playing poorly or the manager who's either coaching them poorly or employing the wrong tactics.

Fans have to face the fact that until Martial puts the same level of effort in as the likes of Sanchez, he's going to be behind them in the pecking order... Simply because very few players at United are talented enough to be lazy... In fact apart from Messi I can't think of anyone who at 22 could get away with being lazy and funnily enough he worked his absolute arse off to be even better.

I'm surprised so many people aren't annoyed with Martial, rather than Mourinho. If any of us had half the talent he has and were being paid millions every year, we'd be working our asses off to realise that potential. He ambles around the pitch as if he's a bona fide superstar, despite achieving nothing in his career so far.
 
finneh said:
A DoF would completely exacerbate the problem. The players Mourinho has signed are getting plenty of game time when fit (Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Bailly etc), it's the players that his predecessors have signed that clearly Mourinho doesn't trust. If we had a director of football then you could bet the majority of players signed by them would be on the bench, whereas the players given the green light by the manager would be playing. They would not be able to force the manager to play the fans' favourite players, and if they could it would make judging the managers performance completely impossible.

A director of football completely muddies the water in terms of accountability. If United stop progressing and do not win trophies, Mourinho is at fault. The blame will completely lie at his door... The same way it lay with LVG and Moyes. With a DoF who do you blame... The players that he signed that are playing poorly or the manager who's either coaching them poorly or employing the wrong tactics.

Fans have to face the fact that until Martial puts the same level of effort in as the likes of Sanchez, he's going to be behind them in the pecking order... Simply because very few players at United are talented enough to be lazy... In fact apart from Messi I can't think of anyone who at 22 could get away with being lazy and funnily enough he worked his absolute arse off to be even better.

I'm surprised so many people aren't annoyed with Martial, rather than Mourinho. If any of us had half the talent he has and were being paid millions every year, we'd be working our asses off to realise that potential. He ambles around the pitch as if he's a bona fide superstar, despite achieving nothing in his career so far.
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completely disagree. First of all, clearly mou rates many of the players his predecessors have signed, or else we wouldn't keep starting so many of them. The back 5 we had in the FA cup final were all SAF players btw. Herrera and mata are leftovers, as is fellaini who mou loves. The new mou players we relied on are matic, lukaku, and sanchez. Pretty much everyone else is leftovers. Lindelof and bailly may become regulars, but not yet. If you actually think about it, it becomes pretty disturbing how much we have still relied on leftovers from previous administrations essentially. The list is crazy, some deserved but many the same mediocrity we have been accustomed to. DDG, young, valencia, smalling, jones, rojo, darmian, herrera, mata, lingard, fellaini, or even players like martial/rashford were lvg guys brought in. Not including guys like blind,shaw, and carrick who havent even played much this season compared to others. I mean like 90 plus percent of our starting positions throughout the year were all leftovers.

And the martial thing has been covered to death. Martial had a poor first season under mou, but had really come back firing this season. He was battling with rashford, and has won man of month awards this season for united. Swear all people want to measure about players is how much they look like they are "running". This is professional soccer, you measure players heavily on something called talent. For all this bashing on martials effort, people really can't point to specific instances where he has costs us points from a lack of "effort" If we could get a proper overlapping fullback, martial would be even more effective as the opposition fullback would have to account for that as well. This lazy tag people put on martial is just something that makes little sense to me. People want to point to lingard/sanchez running around as a positive, when in reality it has been a huge negative many times. They have to run so much because they have been so poor in retaining the ball/creating. At this point the two camps are pretty heavily divided and set in their beliefs. The "Martial FC" people who believe in him, and the anti-martial people who tend to just label him as "lazy" and "moody" All i know is martial is prob one of the few attackers we have that can actually run at his man and beat him.
 
I'd be surprised if he actually left.
 
I like what Mourinho has done with recruitment so far but if he sells martial he has lost my already wavering support.
 
Hugh Jass said:
Worryingly i think this is correct. We may get short term success through such a method, but it would pain me to see martial thriving at another club.
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He won’t unless he goes to a tinpot league like Memphis.
 
finneh said:
A DoF would completely exacerbate the problem. The players Mourinho has signed are getting plenty of game time when fit (Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Bailly etc), it's the players that his predecessors have signed that clearly Mourinho doesn't trust. If we had a director of football then you could bet the majority of players signed by them would be on the bench, whereas the players given the green light by the manager would be playing. They would not be able to force the manager to play the fans' favourite players, and if they could it would make judging the managers performance completely impossible.

A director of football completely muddies the water in terms of accountability. If United stop progressing and do not win trophies, Mourinho is at fault. The blame will completely lie at his door... The same way it lay with LVG and Moyes. With a DoF who do you blame... The players that he signed that are playing poorly or the manager who's either coaching them poorly or employing the wrong tactics.

Fans have to face the fact that until Martial puts the same level of effort in as the likes of Sanchez, he's going to be behind them in the pecking order... Simply because very few players at United are talented enough to be lazy... In fact apart from Messi I can't think of anyone who at 22 could get away with being lazy and funnily enough he worked his absolute arse off to be even better.

I'm surprised so many people aren't annoyed with Martial, rather than Mourinho. If any of us had half the talent he has and were being paid millions every year, we'd be working our asses off to realise that potential. He ambles around the pitch as if he's a bona fide superstar, despite achieving nothing in his career so far.
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The point in DOF that should be particular strategy, the way of playing that club should adopt and of course the manager appointment should be connected to such requirements. Of course Mourinho should not be the manager in such case.
The people aren't annoyed with Martial rather than Mourinho because Mourinho have bad history with young talents. Not only Chelsea, for example in Real he preferred to play with Essien many after his peak in RB position instead to give Carvajal the chance. He even didn't look on B team.
 
sal klita said:
The point in DOF that should be particular strategy, the way of playing that club should adopt and of course the manager appointment should be connected to such requirements. Of course Mourinho should not be the manager in such case.
The people aren't annoyed with Martial rather than Mourinho because Mourinho have bad history with young talents. Not only Chelsea, for example in Real he preferred to play with Essien many after his peak in RB position instead to give Carvajal the chance. He even didn't look on B team.
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So instead of relying on an all powerful manager who chooses the club strategy and decides who we sign, but whom has countless trophies under his belt that illustrate his abilities... We sign an all powerful DoF who chooses the club strategy and decides who we sign, but whom has zero direct accomplishments to which you can rely on?

Again that sounds like a recipe for disaster. You'd end up with a dictatorial DoF who chooses a succession of total stooges as a manager and swiftly sacks them when his own signings aren't working out.

If Mourinho fails he and he alone will fall on his sword, which is exactly how it should be. At the moment he hasn't failed. I'm sure he's done exactly what his remit would have been 2 years ago: establish United as a consistent CL presence again whilst winning trophies. The third part I'm sure would be building a title winning squad, we've achieved 81 points so the goal now is to get another 10 or so.
 
finneh said:
So instead of relying on an all powerful manager who chooses the club strategy and decides who we sign, but whom has countless trophies under his belt that illustrate his abilities... We sign an all powerful DoF who chooses the club strategy and decides who we sign, but whom has zero direct accomplishments to which you can rely on?

Again that sounds like a recipe for disaster. You'd end up with a dictatorial DoF who chooses a succession of total stooges as a manager and swiftly sacks them when his own signings aren't working out.

If Mourinho fails he and he alone will fall on his sword, which is exactly how it should be. At the moment he hasn't failed. I'm sure he's done exactly what his remit would have been 2 years ago: establish United as a consistent CL presence again whilst winning trophies. The third part I'm sure would be building a title winning squad, we've achieved 81 points so the goal now is to get another 10 or so.
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Yeah there seems to be an awful lot of ‘we absolutely have to have a Director of Football - it worked for Southampton’ going on.

I know times change but Fergie said the manager has to have absolute control. It would be madness for United to consider such a move but let’s face it, it’s only because people hate the manager and are obsessed with developing young players no matter what.
 
Cliche Guevara said:
Yeah there seems to be an awful lot of ‘we absolutely have to have a Director of Football - it worked for Southampton’ going on.

I know times change but Fergie said the manager has to have absolute control. It would be madness for United to consider such a move but let’s face it, it’s only because people hate the manager and are obsessed with developing young players no matter what.
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Ferguson was a one-off, though. And although he had complete control he still delegated a lot of work to other people. There are teams that do have directors of football which have been consistently successful despite changing managers, so I think it's not an option to be sniffed at. It's also not a guaranteed remedy for the problems we have and I also still believe that Mourinho can do what we brought him here to do
 
Whilst I think it would be a shame to see him go if the rumours are true, it surprises me that mourinho hasn't used him / got more out of him.

We all criticise Jose for his attacking football yet he's always had at least one flair player in his teams that stands out and gets results. This season none of our players have stepped up to the mark.
 
Ibi Dreams said:
Ferguson was a one-off, though. And although he had complete control he still delegated a lot of work to other people. There are teams that do have directors of football which have been consistently successful despite changing managers, so I think it's not an option to be sniffed at. It's also not a guaranteed remedy for the problems we have and I also still believe that Mourinho can do what we brought him here to do
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Which teams?
 
Cliche Guevara said:
Yeah there seems to be an awful lot of ‘we absolutely have to have a Director of Football - it worked for Southampton’ going on.

I know times change but Fergie said the manager has to have absolute control. It would be madness for United to consider such a move but let’s face it, it’s only because people hate the manager and are obsessed with developing young players no matter what.
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Oh! Well if Ferguson said the manager has to have complete control I guess that's the way it has to be forever. Let's ignore what works for every other elite club and instead we can live in the past and stick to the way things used to work.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
Oh! Well if Ferguson said the manager has to have complete control I guess that's the way it has to be forever. Let's ignore what works for every other elite club and instead we can live in the past and stick to the way things used to work.
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I did say I know times change but there’s no need to introduce it at United that I can see.

It’s just more greeting about Mourinho.
 
If this season is JM make or break season, the club is making a big mistake to allow JM to make the decision on Martial future cause with every passing week our attacking player and style is regressing.

Its not coincidence that Pogba, Alexis and our other attacking outlet not knowing what to do when they play. Its very clear that until this time the manager hasnt got a clue how to maximise his assets. Because of that im sure that adding another attacking player / players will not be part of the solutions, it will just be another problem.

Instead of having discussion on Martial future, why we dont discuss the need of upgrading our FB cause I cant stand to watch Valencia when he plays.
He just do 3 things when he receive the ball, Jumps 3 times, looks around and does a back pass.
 
There's not a lot between Martial and Willian at their respective bests. Or, indeed, even during this last season. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a player who wants to play for the manager than one who's just rejected a contract to stay at the club.

If Martial is not commited enough to improve his workrate, he won't be commited enough to keep himself fit for the next decade. He may be 7 years younger in real terms, but if history is anything to go by, it won't work out that way in terms of longevity. The players who last the longest in the game tend to also be the ones who work hardest on the pitch. A 7 year difference on their birth certificates would translate into less than that physiologically speaking.

Willian's a sure thing for at least 3 years under a manager not called Conte. Martial's gonna need a couple of years to get that kind of level consistently (if at all) and then will likely drop off quickly if his general lack of workrate is any indication.

If you were to bet your mortgage on it, I think the safer money is on Willian. There's a certain romance to Martial which I totally understand. But it's not a gamble United can afford to take right now.

Also, for what it's worth, LvG was even more defensive than Mourinho. People blaming Jose's style are missing the point. Martial was first choice but then lost his place for footballing reasons. He can't be upset with the team's philosophy seeing as it's actually more adventurous than it used to be when he was happy. He's upset because he's lost the manager's faith, but that's got to be on him. If he'd been good enough, it never would have happened. It's not like Mourinho has been afraid to bench his signings (Mkhitaryan, Lindelof) or big names (Rooney, Pogba) in the past. The position is up for grabs and Martial hasn't been up to scratch. If he wants to give up, he'd get no sympathy from me. 'Bottling it' is the sign of Tottenham or Arsenal player, not a Manchester United one.
 
Dante said:
There's not a lot between Martial and Willian at their respective bests. Or, indeed, even during this last season. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a player who wants to play for the manager than one who's just rejected a contract to stay at the club.

If Martial is not commited enough to improve his workrate, he won't be commited enough to keep himself fit for the next decade. He may be 7 years younger in real terms, but if history is anything to go by, it won't work out that way in terms of longevity. The players who last the longest in the game tend to also be the ones who work hardest on the pitch. A 7 year difference on their birth certificates would translate into less than that physiologically speaking.

Willian's a sure thing for at least 3 years under a manager not called Conte. Martial's gonna need a couple of years to get that kind of level consistently (if at all) and then will likely drop off quickly if his general lack of workrate is any indication.

If you were to bet your mortgage on it, I think the safer money is on Willian. There's a certain romance to Martial which I totally understand. But it's not a gamble United can afford to take right now.

Also, for what it's worth, LvG was even more defensive than Mourinho. People blaming Jose's style are missing the point. Martial was first choice but then lost his place for footballing reasons. He can't be upset with the team's philosophy seeing as it's actually more adventurous than it used to be when he was happy. He's upset because he's lost the manager's faith, but that's got to be on him. If he'd been good enough, it never would have happened. It's not like Mourinho has been afraid to bench his signings (Mkhitaryan, Lindelof) or big names (Rooney, Pogba) in the past. The position is up for grabs and Martial hasn't been up to scratch. If he wants to give up, he'd get no sympathy from me. 'Bottling it' is the sign of Tottenham or Arsenal player, not a Manchester United one.
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I don't even know where to begin in how wrong you are in several parts of your post, but I'll try.

This nonsense of workrate has to stop at some point. If you're talking about a player that's not productive, I could understand. Martial is one of the most productive players in goals/assist per 90m (one of my favorite stats) not just on this team but in the entire league. Not all great players are workhorses, it's not a requirement to become a great player for your team. See Sanchez as a perfect example, he's a workhorse but United have looked worse and lost more with him on the team than with Martial who's been much better on the left wing.

Now, to claim Willian's a sure thing for at least 3 years is pure speculation, especially since we've seen many players not playing to their level under Mourinho in the last two seasons. Nothing is a sure thing, but to use that as a reason why Martial is a gamble that United can't afford to take is puzzling to say the least. Where is the gamble exactly? The kid performs, he creates, he's gotten this team wins and he's been here for the last three years. It'd be a much bigger gamble to introduce a new player like Willian who's more cold than hot and to expect the right wing to be solved, especially since Mourinho hasn't shown he can get the best out of a player, let alone a team two years on at United.

And now, the final straw, Martial losing his spot for 'sporting reasons'. Complete and utter drivel, he lost his place to a name. A name that hasn't performed not just since he came to United, but this whole season. Martial was player of the month when he lost his spot. He had 3 goals and 1 assists in the last three games he was allowed to start in a row before Sanchez came in to soon take his spot for anything but sporting reasons.
 
Martial is a great talent but since when is a single player more important that our manager?

How is that the United way? We pride ourselves at being different, we pride ourselves at backing the manager and here we have a bunch of fans saying sack someone that got us back into the CL in his first season, and then got us 2nd and FA Cup final in his second season.

And for what? A highly talented 22 year old that hasn't done all that much at the club, few great games but he's done nothing to justify even a starting position. At best he's competing for it but definitely not made it his yet.

And we're not the one selling him, we offered him a contract and he's refusing to sign it and yet we should sack the manager for him?

Jose had a choice in Jan, sign one of the biggest name in the league or keep trying with a talent and hope he translate all that talent into regular performances. On top of that, he also has to improve the results. And so he made the choice and now we ended the season second. Doesn't sound like a bad choice to me. If we didn't sign him when we had a chance because we have Martial, and he joins City, this place would riot. And even IF we didn't sign Sanchez, there's still no guarantee he'll sign that extension!

We sold Pique and he's one of the best in the world. We sold Ronaldo and he's one of the best in the world. We sold Pogba and many expect him to be one of the best in the world. Even if Martial left and becomes Messi and Ronaldo combined, we'll be fine. If a player wants out because he doesn't want to fight for his spot, because he feels like he's entitled to a starting position at Manchester United based on just talent, then he can feck off, good luck but no tears from me.
 
Miscemayl said:
Martial is a great talent but since when is a single player more important that our manager?

How is that the United way? We pride ourselves at being different, we pride ourselves at backing the manager and here we have a bunch of fans saying sack someone that got us back into the CL in his first season, and then got us 2nd and FA Cup final in his second season.

And for what? A highly talented 22 year old that hasn't done all that much at the club, few great games but he's done nothing to justify even a starting position. At best he's competing for it but definitely not made it his yet.

And we're not the one selling him, we offered him a contract and he's refusing to sign it and yet we should sack the manager for him?

Jose had a choice in Jan, sign one of the biggest name in the league or keep trying with a talent and hope he translate all that talent into regular performances. On top of that, he also has to improve the results. And so he made the choice and now we ended the season second. Doesn't sound like a bad choice to me. If we didn't sign him when we had a chance because we have Martial, and he joins City, this place would riot. And even IF we didn't sign Sanchez, there's still no guarantee he'll sign that extension!

We sold Pique and he's one of the best in the world. We sold Ronaldo and he's one of the best in the world. We sold Pogba and many expect him to be one of the best in the world. Even if Martial left and becomes Messi and Ronaldo combined, we'll be fine. If a player wants out because he doesn't want to fight for his spot, because he feels like he's entitled to a starting position at Manchester United based on just talent, then he can feck off, good luck but no tears from me.
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With you on this.

There is a wealth of footballers out there chomping at the bit to get a chance to play for United. Should Martial leave for greener pastures then he will simply be replaced by an equal or greater quantity. I rate the lad and I feel he will make a success of himself where ever he chooses to ply his trade, but not by any means should we allow him to hold the club to ransom.

Accept the contract on offer or leave would be my words if I were Jose.
 
I've spent most of my posts on this thread/topic focused on mentality, maturity and effort of the player versus his unquestionable talent. So moving away from that is the probably the more important issue here:

Neither Jose nor Martial himself can get the best out of the player when he surrounded by very poor supporting width from the full back and lack of service from the center backs. I do think part of the selection dilemma is down to team balance and playing Martial swings us wayward. And frankly it is detrimental to play him and expect him to be the gritty, hard tackling wide man type .
 
Martial will be the next Salah if he joins Liverpool. He just needs to play under an attacking manager. Spurs is a great choice for him as well. I would like him at arsenal as our forward line is not young as well, and he will get lots of minute playing attacking football.
 
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According to Spurs sources we are in talks with you guys over Martial and he wants to come to us. Mourinho doesn't mind selling him to us, United prefer abroad.
 
8 of his goals and assists came as a substitute in the space of 88 minutes.

He has also gotten 1 assist and 0 goals in 550 minutes in 2018.

Its a bit like saying it's madness for Chelsea to sell Morata because he's got a great ratio. The reality is that his ratio is good because he's good off the bench and not good enough to lead the attack.
 
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