Just for the record I was only asking the question, not stating my belief. Very comprehensive answer.
27
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 33
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Just for the record I was only asking the question, not stating my belief. Very comprehensive answer.
Who, for example? I literally can't think of anyone
Nah, it's just that I saw Matić being mentioned here and jumped the gun a bit.
Fellaini being immobile is definitely not a myth. We've conceded several times because he allows the opposition runner to ghost past him. He'll regularly be slowly jogging not noticing a player accelerating past him. Whether this is him being immobile, lazy or just plain undisciplined is anyone's guess (my view is a combination of the three).
He played very well for 4-5 games whereby Van Gaal played him in an advanced midfield position where we played against teams that attacked us. In this system we bypassed our midfield and used him as a target man between midfield and attack. This was a very limited role that soon got found out by simply putting a big man on him (Zouma). Personally I don't think United should be playing this style of long ball, predictable Football that is easy to stifle (unless it's a couple of times a season to take an opposition by surprise).
Again his best position, as evidenced by his form at Everton is the middle of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 or the first 1 in a 4-4-1-1 (in a long ball system). In either of these positions we have several player's who're either better or far better suited to a top team than Fellaini (Inc Mata, Januzaj, Rooney, Lingard, Herrera). That's before any other signings this Summer.
If he stays it should be as a plan B who's brought on in the last 20 mins to try and bulldose teams whereby scoring from playing actual Football isn't working.
If there was no Fellaini, we wouldn't be winning the FA cup.
Bold part is proof you haven't followed his career enough. Watch some of his games in midfield for Everton - yes midfield, not number 10. His long pass may not be something special but his short passing is really good.
Most people on this forum have made their minds up on Fellaini. Any good performance he has is just luck, a one off, ugly or just poor credited to poor opposition. He has been valuable for us this past season and thankfully most pundits/experts recognize this.
Total nonsense.
Iniesta's short passing is really good; Xavi's short passing was really good; Scholes' short passing was really good... Hell I could name 7-8 player's in the United squad which you could classify as anything from decent to good. Fellaini wouldn't be one of them. Unless our standards have lowered to such a level where Fellaini's short passing is really good, Rooney's short passing is likewise and Rojo's defending is really solid.
I've watched him many times for Everton and over 80 times for United. His game is based around the fact that he's a massive nuisance to defenders and can control the ball from nearly 6 feet in the air with his chest, which is particularly useful in a system where you're looking to bypass midfield (usually a tactic employed by a smaller team, particularly when they're not favourite to win). These along with his defensive heading and physicality are his strengths. His weaknesses include his discipline, short passing, long passing, close control, technique, ball control, pace, stamina, concentration, positional play, an inability to keep the ball when pressed and strangely enough given his height: attacking headers.
In short he has no qualities apart from his size that suit him playing in the middle third of the pitch.
What?
I am not sure he is even better in attack tbf, despite playing as a striker at times. He scored just 3 goals this season and was terrible in front of goal missing some big chances. Matic is much more positive passer than him, Fellaini just lays the ball off majority of times. But they aren't playing same position anyway so it's stupid comparing them in attack, but in terms of those "boxes" Fellaini is worse at pretty much every one, because all those things he mentioned are Fellaini's weaknesses.
If there was no Rashford or Martial is more like it, this is silly mate.
Fellaini is a player we never needed and should never have bought, but he did put in 4 or 5 solid performances in his three seasons at Old Trafford. He should be sold to another club who could use his battering ram qualities.
He's done phenomenally well then to have rated 7 places higher (among Utd players) than Carrick in whoscored's overall ratings for the EPL season, not to mention being a consistent starter for the 2nd highest ranked national team - considering that list of weaknesses. I mention Carrick because he seems to get as much bias in his favour on here as there is against Fellaini.
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They we both not good enough last season
True. Fellaini was better than Carrick though.
He's not a defensive midfielder, he's not a title challenging club no.10. He's a useful player who has his moments, but there's a reason he was considered brilliant at Everton and mediocre at United.
I don't even think Sir Alex would've been able to do much with him.
I don't even think Sir Alex would've been able to do much with him.
He's rated at 5.1 this season. The lowest average rating for any player who's played more than a handful of games. Use your eyes, not some arbitrary scoring website.
Not to mention that Carrick's been very poor too so he's not exactly the beacon of quality.
Don't whoscored use pointless indicators such as 'Aerial Duels' and 'Clearances' towards their shitty rating system? Like the bloke is genuinely great at jumping higher than others and getting his head on the ball, I'll give him that.
I mean according to this rating system, Fellaini gives the ball away 21% of the time. And we have people discussing potential roles in a deeper role where play starts.
"arbitrary scoring website"? whoscored.com?
So where's this 5.1 from? Here?
whoscored uses stats. Here there are a lot of people with an agenda against him.
Where'd you get that?
OK. Thanks. I had been looking at the entire squad list, with the default display for the EPL, so was seeing the 83.6% figure. Still not great, btw.
"arbitrary scoring website"? whoscored.com?
So where's this 5.1 from? Here?
whoscored uses stats. Here there are a lot of people with an agenda against him.
Yes an arbitrary stat site that rates player's on stats that can be padded by doing arbitrary things, such as playing it safe meaning you get a great pass completion %.
Watch football with your eyes and you'll see why he's the worst rated player on this forum.
He at least tries. Which is more than what can be said of Herrera Carrick and all this season. He can be a real asset most of the time he plays. He is not world class or something but he is hardly the nothing player that is being described here. It's quite possible that he will be retained by mourinho.
People here would give him a 6 maybe even if he has an amazing game. Someone like Smalling or Herrera would get a 5 even if they were useless that game
How does one measure that Fellaini "still tries" but conclude that Herrera doesn't. If anything Herrera plays like he runs himself into the ground, chasing in attack and defense, although often leading to misplaced passes and mistimed tackles. It may not work but you can't say he doesn't try as an argument to justify Fellaini, which is a common comment tbf. A more physically imposing player will always look like they try more when they win more physical challenges that slighter players can't win. Personally I think he tries but not as hard as people say.
Oh I can see why he's (one of) the worst rated player(s) here. Don't worry about that. I'm seeing it right now. It's people like you that would consistently mark him down in order to further their agenda. Whoscored don't do that. If anyone can be accused of "playing it safe" to get great PS% it's Carrick. His stats aren't even all that great anymore and yet he still has people on here and other forums hailing him as "still our best midfielder" ffs. There are opinions and there are stats. Stats are less likely to be unfair.
Because Fellaini Attempts to get the ball forward quite a lot. He isn't just a physical player but also can contribute to our attack. Herrera goes anonymous in a lot of games for my liking.
I kinda disagree with this. Fellaini's forward passes are usually nothing more than passes to a player a few yards ahead, and mostly not in a position to be a direct that to the opposition. Herrera does try a lot of forward and attempts a lot of creative passes but unfortunately it doesn't come off, a lot of time because a few players alongside Mata just remain static and rigid according to LvG's system. Just because Fellaini is in a higher position to affect the scoreline more than the one Herrera or other players occupy, it doesn't make him less anonymous than others, even if he just pops up with a goal in the 90th min after 89th min of anonymity.
Quite strange how a few thousand people just seem to randomly have an agenda against him, despite him consistently putting in good performances and contributing so much to the team. It's as if the vast majority of the people on this forum don't actually watch him every week and want United to win, an activity that would clearly make them warm to him because of said performances, but instead are all strangely prejudiced against afro-haired Belgiums. Yep, that's definitely it.
Carrick has also been very poor by the way, along with Memphis and Fellaini they make up the worst 3 player's who've played more than a few games. Strange that Carrick and Memphis has been agreeably terrible this year, but poor old Fellaini is the victim.
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Here are the whoscored overall ratings of our (outfield) players that played over 1000 minutes in the EPL season just gone:
1 Martial 7.23
2 Smalling 7.17
3 Blind 7.14
4 Rooney 7.06
5 Rojo 6.93
6 Scneiderlin 6.92
7 Darmian 6.91
8 Mata 6.8
9 Fellaini 6.78
10 Schweinsteiger 6.78
11 Herrera 6.77
12 Lingard 6.71
13 Carrick 6.66
14 Young 6.6
15 Memphis 6.38
If caftards' opinions were anything like fair, there is no way Fellaini should be rated much lower than any of those with poorer stats than him. So yes, I do believe that there are many here who mark him low for reasons unconnected to what he does on the pitch - as in, they've taken an irrational dislike to him - for whatever reason.
Incidentally, many on that list would, I believe, have better stats and would have been marked higher here (and we would be in CL), had they played in their natural positions - Blind, Rooney, Rojo, Mata and Young included.
When did whoscored ratings become such a concrete way of rating players?
Its weird, because they're absolute junk as well.
That list proves my point completely. Darmian on the whole has been very poor, yet is rated higher than Mata. Rojo has been poor yet he's rated higher than Lingard, Schweinsteiger or Mata. Fellaini likewise has been awful and is rated as decent. Rooney likewise hasn't been close to one of our best player's, yet he's near the top. Schneiderlin likewise.
The Redcafe ratings are far, far more objective and fair than that list. Which is obvious because the posters here watch the vast majority of games.
Very few United fans randomly despis a player without basis. They form the opinion by watching thousands of minutes of them play. People rate Fellaini down because he's been useless for us in 95% of his games.
There you go again. He's quite obviously not among "the worst 3 players". How would you account for all of those with worse stats than him if that was true?
At least put off sub appearances when comparing ratings .
.Fair point. Most of those ranked low had more sub appearances.At least put off sub appearances when comparing ratings
Fellaini is not good enough to be a regular undoubtedly. But there's no denying his awkward demeanour makes him disliked much more than others among fans. Similarly Herrera and Mata gets a lot more leeway although they have been proper gash for most part of their united career. Especially herrera who has gotten only worse and looks lost and does the stupidest of things in his limited time on the field. Mata is another fair weather softie who gets away due to an occasional show of flair and mostly being this nice guy. In the end all 3 are disappointingly poor thus far. But the hate is a lot more skewed towards one.
Agree that Fellaini's style of play probably sees him get criticised more that other players who contribute about as much (or as little). I don't necessarily think that's unfair though. Manchester United fans expect to see a certain style of football and don't see Fellaini as being particularly compatible with that. It would be the same at other clubs.
Herrera playing this season made me wonder if he actually has brains. Fellaini seemed more intelligent with his crap than him. Giving away needless fouls in dangerous areas , giving away the ball etc.
People give him lower ratings because of the hatred they have towards him. If he has a bad game he would be rated Lower than say Smalling or Herrera or mata in their off days. It's obvious.
Why do you think they hate him?
Hardly an argument to be fair, this place has gone through many seasons where certain players are blamed logical or not.
Fellaini hasn't done enough to win people round from their initial assessments, fair enough as he's been poor as much as he's been good and most of the time average. Still, I'd say he's had as many good games as any other midfielder this season hasn't he?
- Status