Blind made 8 interceptions yesterday. To me it is clear who the better DM is.
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Blind made 8 interceptions yesterday. To me it is clear who the better DM is.
Comparing Fellaini to Blind in central midfield is a bit like comparing Cascarino to Van Bommel.
It is though.
This is quite a forthright and bold claim. I can understand where you are coming from but this thread is not where you need to be making such a claim. The fashionista's who are desperate to convince themselves and other United fans that Fellaini is not even a competent footballer will be all over this.
On the other end of the scale, people just simply have to stop saying such idiotic things as 'not intellegent enough', 'cant pass well enough', 'not tactically aware' and 'would prefer Scholes instead'. These people have simply lost their way and are making things up to try and convince themselves that Fellaini is not a good enough player. People are crying out for a player that defends comprehensively, can pass 10 yards and 40 yards perfectly, is always making interceptions and never loses the ball. Players like this simply do not exist, in your own fantasies and in the real world.
When you're playing at the anchor you have to sacrifice one thing or another. A defensive player who closes and duels, or a player who sits in the space and mops up for the defence. Either have their uses but both are far from perfect. This emphasis on passing and keeping the ball are more important than defensive ability has to stop as well. For shites sake they are playing as a defensive midfielder, their first port of call is to defend, not be able to pass and retain possession.
A) Retaining possession in key areas is part of defending.
B) Fellaini's main weakness as a DM is the fact that he's actually not that good defensively, not his technical skill set.
Winning possession is part of defending. Retaining possession in any area, from any player is part of attacking. You can't be defending if you have the ball, as ludicrous as that sounds.
This is part of my point that the needs and abilities of the a defensive midfielder has been muddied by fans in a desperate attempt to classify and tag some players as great and shite. Lets get back to basic's as the fans and realize that defensive midfielders need to defend first and foremost, subsequent passing/ball retention and tactical smarts are a bonus to the role.
I'd have thought years of watching Barcelona would have proven otherwise?
Guardiola: "Sometimes you have loads of possession but do not create chances, just to defend and defend – because when you have possession, you have the ball and it is impossible the opponent can score a goal".
Keeping the ball properly in key areas is part of defense. Why do you think LvG highlighted our inability to keep possession on the weekend? He wasn't complaining that we weren't doing enough attacking, was he? He was saying that our inability to maintain possession and control led to the team defending badly as a unit.
Similarly, someone like Klopp would argue that pressing without the ball is an important part of his team's attacking football. The divide between attack and defense isn't always as black and white as you're making out.
I don't watch Barcelona. I find possession football as boring as knitted animal sweaters.
Yes, it may well be part of defence if and when the defenders have the ball. But it isn't defending in the way that I am implying, as in when we don't have the ball. When your team mates have the ball we aren't taking up defensive possessions or looking to win the ball from your own team mates, that is just being obtuse to suit your argument.
He probably said that because it's true. We should have kept the ball a little better at 3-1 but ultimately United over the years gets a head of steam up and continues to attack. Especially under Sir Alex. We, funnily enough continued to attack and almost scored a couple more before we were undone by some pretty shite defending as a unit. The parts of the game where we should have been a lot better. Individual defensive ability and it's effect on the players around you as a unit.
Something that we have lacked is a proper ball winning midfielder and it has shown for years. It is no coincidence that things like this and the 5-5, and many 'fall apart scenarios' under Moyes. I am not saying Fellaini is that ultimate player but there is more to being a defensive midfielder than what you do on the ball. What you do off it is far more important. Leave utilizing the ball to the two supplementary midfielders (in this scenario, as in 3-1 up trying to see out a game) just ahead of the DM.
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The idea of playing him CB... He doesn't sense danger and position himself well enough or track opposition players to play in midfield. And you want him at CB?
He's a direct frontplayer where none of that matters. All that matters when he plays up top is that he's big and quite good in the air and has shown he can score a bunch of goals from that position.
He's a direct frontplayer where none of that matters. All that matters when he plays up top is that he's big and quite good in the air and has shown he can score a bunch of goals from that position.
He'd be fine to try as a CB in a stable defence. He wouldn't be this all magical defence fixing player who solves all our problems but I can't see him being a world shattering liability at CB.
He's played less time in his career as an attacking player than he has as a central or defensive midfield player. Just because he ran up field and banged a few goals in for 30 games doesn't mean that it is the only way we're going to ever be able to utilize him and the world is going to cease to exist because some United fans think that he can't play any other position than a target man up the field.
Relax, he can't do any worse than our current crop of midfielders has been producing. One has already been banished, one rarely plays and another has gone out on loan. If he's sat on the pine in a position to deputize for Herrera, Di Maria (who I would prefer to see as more of a 10 than a deeper player in a 4-3-3 if I am being honest) and/or Blind(Carrick) the sky is not going to come crashing down on you. It's okay.
Fellaini as a CB 
This place has gone mental.
This place has gone mental.
I thought they were taking the piss or something but to my disbelieve they are seriousFellaini as a CB
This place has gone mental.
I keep forgetting he plays for us, it's great.
Who is suggesting that this is a legitimate solution and must be tried? It's no different to central defensive players playing at fullback, wingers playing centrally and strikers playing withdrawn roles. I see nothing wrong with having a crack at putting him at CB and seeing what happens. It may not end well but how do you know if you don't try?Fellaini as a CB
This place has gone mental.
What if while Blackett is suspsended Rojo and Smalling pick up simultaneous injuries? Is it mental to try and move other players to CB before dipping into the reserves for another 18/19yo?
And hes played less time in his career as a £20 million+ valued footballer who attracted a top team
1 season, 1 big move.
He didnt convince anyone to sign him when he was playing as a central midfielder, theres a reason for that
He's a more versatile Andy Carrol, and the thing about versatile players is that they still have 1 position where they are best and the others not as good. He is best as a forward
Player is transferred for a sum of money and gets payed to play football, shock horror. Alert the press, it's time to start panicking, reality is shattering and the demon world is bleeding in on the real one. His fee and price tag have no effect on his football. Lets see him injury free and contributing properly before we start lighting the torches and amassing the populace to march on Old Trafford to oust him.
There could be (are is more likely) many reasons. You've just decided to grip tightly onto your perceived notion that he is a terrible footballer and you're not letting go of it.
"He must play as a forward, best as a forward, scored goals as a forward lalalalala not listening"
'A more versatile Andy Carrol', jesus wept. Lets see him fit and playing in the shirt for an extended period before we go into meltdown mode.
You are amazing at missing points.
It was his work as a front player that led to his big move. So it doesnt matter that he's played there less than he has as a CM. As as CM he was staying at Everton
Fellaini as a CB
This place has gone mental.
This. Aside from his ability in the air he has zero other traits that would make him even a competant CB.
You're amazing at denying Fellaini existed before July 2012. Chelsea were actively interested and apparently Madrid were offered a 25m Euro price in 2012.
This was posted the other day in another thread and it is an interesting watch, there is barely any hoofing going on really. Apart from the odd one, Moyes looks happier and hey, he won a MOTM award, good on him. A lot of cut backs though.
There is no denying for Belgium there is a lot of dishing off and legging it into the box for the cross. A simple 'don't do that' would probably suffice to keep him in a deeper position.
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Fellaini gets a lot of unfair stick and I still think he could go on to be a very useful player for us. Not as a CB though. Just no.
For sure, nobody on the opposite side of the coin is saying he is a legitimate solution to playing at CB though. If worst came to worst and he was fit and 'in form' he'd probably be tried before one of the ressies.
It would have to be a helluva crisis for him to get games there. Above him in my pecking order would be: Jones, Evans, Smalling, Rojo, Blackett, Shaw, Carrick and Fletcher. Obviously most of them are defenders anyway and Carrick and Fletcher have done the role in the past.
Fellaini's biggest issue is sensing danger. The amount of times his man just makes simple runs off the back of him and he just doesn't know what's gone on is frightening.
Exactly, it wasn't great but nobody is suggesting it was complete madness. It was what it was.
So far, injured are Jones, Evans and Carrick. Blackett is suspended. (Mind you Fellaini isn't match fit, although I have seen him training lately). He's literally an injury away from possibly having to step in and play there, would that be classified as madness? Extreme worst case scenario of course.
What are you on about? Off the deep end?... I answered your question. Two teams enquired about him while he played as a central midfield which was prior to the 12/13 season. I've literally stepped into a puddle and I am floundering in the deep end, well played.
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I stated the fact that he got his big move after playing as a forward. He stayed at Everton after playing seasons as a central midfielder
You refuted this with rumours of going to Chelsea, missing the point entirely
I think it's somewhat irrelevant what he was doing immediately before he got his big move since the thing that got him his big move wasn't his play as a forward, or his play as a central midfielder, but the fact that Moyes went to United and wanted to take 2 of his favourite players with him.
Real Madrid never inquired about Fellaini from Everton fwiw. None of the more reliable media outlets (BBC, Guardian, Telegraph etc) reported it. The gist of it is laughable in itself :
Yeah ok Metro. That seems believable.
Yeah ok Metro. That seems believable.
Thats definitely a factor, but we'd have paid half as much for him the season before when he was playing as a central midfielder
He raised his profile and interest in him by being more effective as a forward player than as a central midfielder.
Probably having the goals to his name would be an extra bargaining chip but I doubt it would be that much less had they sold him a season earlier since Everton paid £15m on him and would surely want a decent profit to sell one of their players to Manchester United.
And we'd have gone elsewhere because he's clearly not worth it as a central midfielder.
With him being such an important player, scoring goals up front for Everton and causing us problems, we bit the bullet and paid a lot more for him than we should have.
I reckon Moyes would still have took him to be honest. It seemed nailed on.
It is completely irrelevant and probably goes to further point out that his last contract had the same price as a release clause of 25m Euro, which is something resembling his point that nobody else payed it. United however did. (Speculating, without actually checking, it's a moot point so I am not going to bother) I see that it makes little difference either way, it's literally clinging to some random speck of a particular argument and shoving fingers in his ears saying 'lalalala im not budging' like I said above. We payed the money, we have the player and he's struggled with various parts of his career to date. Simply saying certain things about him doesn't automatically make them true.
On the subject of Moyes bringing him in I believe we looked at other targets and probably wouldn't have signed him had Herrera signed. Plus if he had have stayed fit then we probably would have had a better player to complement Carrick.
Again, in this scenario it's hardly his fault, just gotta make do with the tools you have. It happened so there is no real point throwing a big hissy fit over it, in my eyes.
I quite like him but he has his limitations. Plus I was responding to comments that wanted Fellaini to play defensive roles that require tactical nou; I want him to have an attacking one or an aggressive one. I--and I'm sure LvG too--prefer organised defenses but don't mind a few terriers in attack.
Let Herrera and Di Maria be the terriers. I personally don't want to see him dish off and just run forward like he did last year and for Belgium. It makes his role near on pointless and as well buys into the phenomenon of fans vehemently abusing him.
A Blind role with a 'don't get forward and make sure to keep shape with the defense' private chat is all I'd really like to see him actually get a shot at. Anywhere else just gives me a 'well.. I guess' kind of feeling.
Going back to the Blind comparisons, it isn't laughable to suggest that Fellaini is a better player. I know people are blinded by their hate but he did actually play CM for Everton and put in some good performances. Blind has had one good performance for us and did relatively well in the Dutch league. Blind will probably be the better player but I don't think it is as one sided as everyone here thinks.
when did he play well for Everton at CM? It is like saying Valencia played well for us at RB. He had some games there, mostly average performances. Nowher near good enough to play there for us under van Gaal. His passing, vision and posiitional awareness are not good enough. The only position he could play for us is behind the striker or instead of Di Maria/Herrera as a box to box, both suggestions are laughable. He isnt good enough at DM and i dont want to see him at CB if he cant play the other positions. Sell him and get some decent money in or keep him to throw him in for the last minutes to cause some havoc with long ball tactics.
Prior to 2012/13.
This is what I was thinking, the same guy keeps re-registering and going down the same pro Fellaini rant path before being banned, the weird thing is how he keeps getting promoted so fast, almost like it's a sock account of someone with privileges.
Yup.
It's really sad tbf. Learning no lessons. Two things always give him away and are instantly noticeable in the posting style :
1. The word dish off and get/ run forward. Never seen anyone else use it to describe Fellaini's playing style. Trademark goldenstate/ phenix rising stuff :
Exhibit 1 :
Exhibit 2 :
2. Excessive use of ' ' when it's not necessarily required :
Exhibit 1 :
Exhibit 2 :
3.
@Red Phoenix Rising :
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Ah well, atleast he's not calling people Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime/ gimps/ retards/ mongrels/ spastics in every post anymore like the goaldenstatesplash version. Signs of progress.
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