Soldado has got to be up there too. He hasn't had the injuries Fellaini's had, and has looked woefully off it.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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Soldado has got to be up there too. He hasn't had the injuries Fellaini's had, and has looked woefully off it.
Soldado is in his first season here so could perhaps be given the benefit of the doubt. But I also agree that Fellaini cannot be considered the biggest flop. He has not been as bad as people make him out to be.
Let's sell him and pretend he never played for us.
Yea this is the way forward, I've done a similar Jedi mind trick on myself regarding Moyes.
During the past season he's looked like a very easy target to pressure and take the ball from, he looked absolutely weak at times. Being weak on the ball was the last thing I'd imagined Fellaini to be because I never remembered him being an easy target during his time at Everton.
Well our season's been a nightmare this year and our whole team was absolute shit on a stick so he moulded into that and played our players' game to pretend he's not a footballer.
It would be interesting if he accelerates under VG, looking at what Belgian NT coach said about him being misused and so on, it would give a pretty note to David if a new coach came in and started getting 200% out of his own player.
There were only a couple of times that he was pushed forward for us, very rarely (and never from the start of a game) has he played anything like his role upfront at Everton. Mostly he has been the main DM or given a bit more license to push forward when paired with Carrick.
We will have to see if Giggs brings him back to the matchday squad before the end of the season, sounds like the Belgian manager is ready to play him in the World Cup regardless of his form at United.
Really? I can't remember any game where he's played defensive midfield for us. I'm fairly sure he's started every game alongside either Fletcher or Carrick who definitely play deeper than him and mop things up. Ever since he's come back from his injury he's played considerably further up the pitch than these two, it's not uncommon to see him in the box, although his runs have zero intelligence or timing to them.
Earlier in the season there was a period where Carrick was injured and Fletcher was not yet in the picture - Fellaini played with Cleverley or Giggs and was clearly the main DM.
and as the Belgian manager notes, there have been other times when we have set up with 'two no6s' as he puts it
Definitely. We'd be lucky to get half the cash back though. Maybe Moyes will take him if he takes over someone with a few bob.
So he's probably played a couple of games at the start of the season as a DM. When he has been paired with either Carrick or Fletcher i.e. in the majority of games, there's no way he can be called a DM.
I've taken the first game where I can find heatmaps for Fellaini and Carrick, which happens to be West Brom away
Fellaini:
Carrick:
Clearly Fellaini has been given instructions to get into the opposition box.
I thought it was pretty clear when he got forward in to the box. The triggers were there for everyone to see. The moment our wide players got in to the final third he made a beeline for the box.
Yeah he's in the box a lot, but he tends just to be stood in there, waiting for the ball to pop on his head. Scholes is 5'10 and scored a load of headers because he perfected the art of ghosting into the box, making late runs and getting in between the centre half. Fellaini, on the other hand, just seems to loiter in there waiting for the ball.
So he's probably played a couple of games at the start of the season as a DM. When he has been paired with either Carrick or Fletcher i.e. in the majority of games, there's no way he can be called a DM.
I've taken the first game where I can find heatmaps for Fellaini and Carrick, which happens to be West Brom away
Fellaini:
Carrick:
Clearly Fellaini has been given instructions to get into the opposition box.
He played a few games as the sole DM and then several when we effectively started with 2 DMs (as mentioned by Wilmots), Id actually say he has played the majority of his time with us as a more defensive player - yes he has also been pushed further forward on occasions and can be seen in the opposition box (whereas you never see Carrick in there) but heat maps alone dont tell you the full story (even a CB like Vidic who only goes up for corners has heat like that in the opposition box) .
Look also at the Average Position charts for a whole game and you will see that he is often in line or only slightly forward of Carrick/Fletcher - certainly nowhere near the kind of forward role he played often for Everton nor the freer box to box role he plays for Belgium.
As I mentioned earlier, there have been games (including the WBA game you mention) where we started cautiously and then in the 2nd half you can see that Fellaini was given more freedom to push on - I cant remember many times where he started and played the whole game with the freedom of a box to box player, which is exactly what the Belgian manager seems to be complaining about.
The last few matches, especially against the bigger teams, after Moyes said he wants to see more goals from Fellaini, there was a clear shift in how Fellaini set up for us. The match against Liverpool and City come to mind immediately.
So if a mediocre season Cavani is still worth £60M could a mediocre season Fellatio still mean we could get our money back, especially if Belgium utilise him correctly at the World Cup?
I think he'd be good for Arse, they like a yellow card magnet over there don't they?
I think he'd be good for Arse, they like a yellow card magnet over there don't they?
Poor choice of words there, Colin. I understand the attempt at humour but please avoid this in the future, Google is watching and if they turn off the ads we won't have a caf.
I hope it's not an embarassing auto correct incident, though.
I hope it's not an embarassing auto correct incident, though.
You are right there was a bit of a shift to a more box to box role (which personally I thought was a mistake), but still it was nothing like the off the striker role he played for Everton
Nope, I always called him that, even when he was at Everton. Isn't it a medical term though?
It's certainly not a lay term
Anyway I marked your post as dirty, which I think hides it from the Googlebots.
It's certainly not a lay term
Anyway I marked your post as dirty, which I think hides it from the Googlebots.
If you start on that fecking horse song again, I'll never forgive you
Half the cash would be infinitely preferable to gifting him a squad place for next season.
Rather see Pearson or Pereira from the reserves in midfield instead.
Soldado is miles ahead of him, the fact that Adebayor came out of the reserves after not playing for about a year and immediately started putting in goals Soldado didn't proves that. Personally I'm also unimpressed by Negredo at City.
I still don't think we should get rid of Fellaini though, unless we sign 3 new CMs this summer. We're short on numbers in this position anyway and with Anderson leaving we'll be even shorter. Don't fancy having to play Jones in there again (or Cleverley at all) any time soon.
Perhaps it was not exactly like that. But he is so immobile that he hardly played in our box during open play. Just stayed up like a useless lump and I blame Moyes for this mistake.
What do you guys mean by immobile?. He gets around the park a lot. He covers a lot of ground. Do you mean immobile in terms of agility or being nimble?
Ye well as I said earlier, his best performances have come when he has stuck to a more defensive midfield task, I think that is where he can useful for us. But then it is strange to hear from the Belgium manager who says he is not suited to that and should be played box to box!
I think his best performances, which have been average at best, have come in a box-to-box role.
Wilmots would be right. His best Everton form came when he was acting as the box-to-box midfielder, usually partnering Osman or Gibson. The team played better as a result.
Some people still don't accept that now for some bizarre reason. "He played as a ten, la!" Covers eyes.
Yeah he played with "more freedom" against lesser opposition where Carrick is quite capable of running the game from a holding position and UTD have the lions-share of possession. Those were the games where he was noticeably better, and had more of an impact upon the game.
But typically:
But typically:
Would he better as a target man a la Andy Carroll?
West Ham obviously couldn't afford him though.
West Ham obviously couldn't afford him though.
West Ham spent £15 million on Carroll, they can have Fellaini for something similar.
I don't see Fat Sam surviving in the job long enough to pursue our very own donkey though.
He's best used at a box to box player like Lampard, outside of this role he is limited.
I meant slow as feck. Plus looks very lethargic. The ground covered is a very misleading stat because half the time he is just ambling.
His touch is very poor, if the opposition puts pressure on him, he doesn't seem to have the ability to play one touch passes. If given time and space, he would most likely be a useful player but he's not a Scholes type who can create space despite being man marked.
He can effective in some areas, his control with his chest is very impressive but that's not really good enough to command a place in the starting line up. I have no doubt he will improve from last season with a pre-season with us and a new manager but I'm not sure if he will be able to hold down a starting place with us likely to sign two CM's.
He can effective in some areas, his control with his chest is very impressive but that's not really good enough to command a place in the starting line up. I have no doubt he will improve from last season with a pre-season with us and a new manager but I'm not sure if he will be able to hold down a starting place with us likely to sign two CM's.
Fellaini was half-expected to fail, so in that sense he isn't considered a flop.
Lamela has been the biggest 'flop'.
Was Fellaini the flop or was he a flop because of Moyes?
If you start on that fecking horse song again, I'll never forgive you
I have little hope for Fellaini on the basis that Moyes was clearly his biggest fan, but couldn't get him up to any sort of standard you'd expect at United - will LvG see something different in him and make him successful here? It's possible, but I don't hold much hope.
A good World Cup and sell him aboard I think - if only because if he sell him to a club in England then he'll definitely score against us whilst barging another one of our centre-backs (or Carrick) out of the way
If we hadnt bought Fellaini we would have made an 18 million quid profit which is quite staggering given that we paid 72 million on interest alone and still have this massive debt we are paying off.
I didnt watch Everton much so I dont know if he was specifically playing DM or more B2B last season, but I do agree that he played many times as a midfielder and not always off the striker as many people mistakenly think.
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