Mark Ogden

BobbyManc said:
L'Equipe claimed at the beginning of the season Ancelotti had originally being offered the United job but turned it down.
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That got denied by Ancelotti himself who said it was nonsense. It's possible we'd have asked him to say that to give the impression Moyes was always our man but there's been nothing from the British journos on that matter, I'm pretty sure it would've come out if it was true.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
It appears that Ogden is the man who the club are using to break the stories that they don't want to bang straight on the official site.
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There will be occasions that's the case but it's presumptuous to say we're always purposely planting his stories. Fergie was very annoyed about his retirement being announced in the fashion it was for example, and he got banned last season for reporting injury news that Fergie didn't want out there.
 
The a Times article brings to mind one word to describe Moyes' tenure: MESS.
 
Aye. That part about him fining Welbeck, Cleverley and Young and allowing whoever it was who came an hour late looking 'worse for wear' [van Persie(?)] just summed him up really; tactless.
 
MUFC07 said:
You gotta have influence on the papers, mate. From inside the club, you gotta have someone who can publish something for you, leak stories to get better deals, among many other things, but they won't do it just for the sake of it.
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Indeed. You only have to look at some of the big Spanish teams who have unofficial mouthpieces.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Aye. That part about him fining Welbeck, Cleverley and Young and allowing whoever it was who came an hour late looking 'worse for wear' [van Persie(?)] just summed him up really; tactless.
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Van Persie doesn't drink. I think we all know who it was. Anyone who reads the fanzines will have a clue...

...Amazing how the fanzines were being dismissed until a few weeks ago and now, all the stuff they reported ages ago, is now being repeated by the mainstream media.
 
#07 said:
Van Persie doesn't drink. I think we all know who it was. Anyone who reads the fanzines will have a clue...

...Amazing how the fanzines were being dismissed until a few weeks ago and now, all the stuff they reported ages ago, is now being repeated by the mainstream media.
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Who is it then?
 
#07 said:
Van Persie doesn't drink. I think we all know who it was. Anyone who reads the fanzines will have a clue...

...Amazing how the fanzines were being dismissed until a few weeks ago and now, all the stuff they reported ages ago, is now being repeated by the mainstream media.
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Why not just tell us?
 
#07 said:
Van Persie doesn't drink. I think we all know who it was. Anyone who reads the fanzines will have a clue...

...Amazing how the fanzines were being dismissed until a few weeks ago and now, all the stuff they reported ages ago, is now being repeated by the mainstream media.
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Tell us then if you know. If I had to guess I'd say Rooney.
 
HabeasC said:
I always find the idea of journalists having 'inside sources' a bit odd.

It then means that there are people within the club who are betraying the confidence of the club and the board and/or who are in the pockets of the journos, otherwise they wouldn't find it out really until the official statements.

Surely the club would want to try to find the blabber-mouths and cut them out, rather than accepting them as part of the business of football.

On the other hand, it could be a Malcolm Tucker-esque leak on purpose so as to unsettle the manager, etc.
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United have 500 employees, you can't stop little leaks. This was most certainly a briefing though. Just can't figure out why.
 
bishblaize said:
United have 500 employees, you can't stop little leaks. This was most certainly a briefing though. Just can't figure out why.
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My suspicion was that the club were trying to force Moyes to resign or at least accept a mutual termination.
 
bishblaize said:
United have 500 employees, you can't stop little leaks. This was most certainly a briefing though. Just can't figure out why.
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Exactly. It is unlikely that the club would have told the groundskeepers or youth players before they told Moyes, so it must have been either someone who overheard something, or a leak on purpose by someone high up.
 
RORY65 said:
My suspicion was that the club were trying to force Moyes to resign or at least accept a mutual termination.
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That would be constructive dismissal (forcing someone to resign) so no real difference.
 
HabeasC said:
Exactly. It is unlikely that the club would have told the groundskeepers or youth players before they told Moyes, so it must have been either someone who overheard something, or a leak on purpose by someone high up.
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The fact every media source revealed it at around 2pm suggests it was briefed from high up but embargoed until a certain time.
bishblaize said:
That would be constructive dismissal (forcing someone to resign) so no real difference.
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Really? Even just a private briefing in the hope he'd go out of principle.
 
That was Honigstein's pet theory, and patent bullshit.
 
RORY65 said:
The fact every media source revealed it at around 2pm suggests it was briefed from high up but embargoed until a certain time.

Really? Even just a private briefing in the hope he'd go out of principle.
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Only official documents can be embargoed, iirc.

Plus however it happened, if you're put in a position where you have to resign it's the same as being sacked, at least as far as the contract is concerned.
 
Ubik said:
That was Honigstein's pet theory, and patent bullshit.
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I just don't really see a reason why everyone would be informed at the same time before they let Moyes know, the club must have wanted it out there for some reason. Although if Honigstein thinks it then I retract my opinion and agree that it's bullshit.
 
Probably been mentioned before but there's a piece on the Moyes debate recorded last night, Ogden,Mitten even Pat Nevin sticking his oar in.
Very good informative piece, it's in "newstalk", podcasts there's an app or just google it.
Worth a listen most weeks.
 
RORY65 said:
I just don't really see a reason why everyone would be informed at the same time before they let Moyes know, the club must have wanted it out there for some reason. Although if Honigstein thinks it then I retract my opinion and agree that it's bullshit.
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The question about the motive of the leak/briefing is a good one, but the forcing him out angle just wouldn't work. We'd put a clause in his contract for this express purpose of getting rid should he underperform, we're not going to do a constructive dismissal. It was a mess in the end but the right decision was made, and the means will be forgotten about soon enough. He gets a payoff for not doing well, we name this season Armin Tamzarian and forget about it sharpish.
 
My mind says Carlo Ancelotti - Great manager, great tactician, excellent man-manager and an out and out good guy.

My heart however, after reading about the way players reacted to Moyes, says Van Gaal - Badass manager, disciplinarian, epic tactician, believes it's his spiritual duty to play attacking football and best of all, will not stand for any shit. Oh and a real nutter.

I want Van Gaal to come in and shake things up and let loose all the talentless/riotous elements within the club. I want him to drop his pants, grab his balls and fire the shit out of underperformers.

Let him cleanse us with fire!!
 
The Red Thinker said:
My mind says Carlo Ancelotti - Great manager, great tactician, excellent man-manager and an out and out good guy.

My heart however, after reading about the way players reacted to Moyes, says Van Gaal - Badass manager, disciplinarian, epic tactician, believes it's his spiritual duty to play attacking football and best of all, will not stand for any shit. Oh and a real nutter.

I want Van Gaal to come in and shake things up and let loose all the talentless/riotous elements within the club. I want him to drop his pants, grab his balls and fire the shit out of underperformers.

Let him cleanse us with fire!!
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True, Ancelotti would be almost the exact opposite approach. I'm sure he'd replace a few players and he certainly has enough steel that you wouldn't feck with him but he'd be more about getting the squad onside and bringing the best out of what we have. Still, there'd be less of a need to shake things up with Carlo as he always enjoys excellent relationships with his players, more so than Mourinho according to Ibra.

Polar opposite characters really but Carlo is the better manager imo so I'd go with him.
 
bishblaize said:
That would be constructive dismissal (forcing someone to resign) so no real difference.
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I remember hearing though i may have imagined it, that you can only make a claim against a company for constructive dismissal if you have worked for them for 2 years.
 
sullydnl said:
True, Ancelotti would be almost the exact opposite approach. I'm sure he'd replace a few players and he certainly has enough steel that you wouldn't feck with him but he'd be more about getting the squad onside and bringing the best out of what we have. Still, there'd be less of a need to shake things up with Carlo as he always enjoys excellent relationships with his players, more so than Mourinho according to Ibra.

Polar opposite characters really but Carlo is the better manager imo so I'd go with him.
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Considering out squad is young and we have some good prospects coming through the ranks, I think Van Gaal would be a better choice as he'll improve them as players. Ancelotti is a very good manager, but I'm not convinced by his ability to bring through young players. Feel free to call me stupid and point to examples!
 
stevoc said:
I remember hearing though i may have imagined it, that you can only make a claim against a company for constructive dismissal if you have worked for them for 2 years.
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It's not even that we'd do it, it would be absurd of our board to think Moyes would go along with it in the first place. He's guaranteed a year's payout if he just waits for the kick.
 
Ubik said:
It's not even that we'd do it, it would be absurd of our board to think Moyes would go along with it in the first place. He's guaranteed a year's payout if he just waits for the kick.
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Yeah i don't believe it myself to be honest. He was never going to resign though it probably would have been the honest thing to do.
 
Maccaa said:
If one of the players actually said to the ref too send Moyes off then that player has too be out of the door I don't care who it is.
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I wouldn't read too much into it. Surely we'd have heard about it long before now if it were true, and it was first mentioned in a Mail article if I recall correctly. So it's probably bollocks.

If it does turn out to be true, however, then I hope whoever it was it thrown out on their arse quicker than they can blink.
 
stevoc said:
I remember hearing though i may have imagined it, that you can only make a claim against a company for constructive dismissal if you have worked for them for 2 years.
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You're right in the sense that you wouldn't be able to go to the civil court to claim unfair or wrongful dismissal on the basis of constructive dismissal. However if the contract between Moyes and United had different pay offs in the event of resignation vs sacking then Moyes may be able to to claim that the constructive dismissal meant that his contract was breached by the club (assuming he got a lower pay off if he walked away rather than being sacked). Plus it would mean that he may not be subject to things like gagging clauses, gardening leave and stuff like that.
 
bishblaize said:
You're right in the sense that you wouldn't be able to go to the civil court to claim unfair or wrongful dismissal on the basis of constructive dismissal. However if the contract between Moyes and United had different pay offs in the event of resignation vs sacking then Moyes may be able to to claim that the constructive dismissal meant that his contract was breached by the club (assuming he got a lower pay off if he walked away rather than being sacked). Plus it would mean that he may not be subject to things like gagging clauses, gardening leave and stuff like that.
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Yeah fair enough hadn't thought of that. Though i doubt we were actually trying to get him to resign in any case.

Can't think of any reason why we would have intentionally leaked that info on monday, if the board met on sunday night and decided he was gone why didn't they just call him in to give him the bad news sunday night/monday morning before it broke to the media.
 
Anyone seen his latest United piece? Feels like it was written after he got up on the wrong side of bed.
 
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