Marcus Rashford (out)

bb8 said:
Fair points. I didn't even see us getting as much as you proposed. £10M loan fee plus £280k a week for 20 weeks is £15.6M. That's a lot!

I figured we could get £8M or so total (loan fee plus any wages). That would cover all his wages the rest of the year. I think that's reasonable to expect.

Of course we as fans want him gone, but I think a loan with option or straight loan is more likely. I see Arsenal as a potential fit with Saka and Jesus both hurt. £8M for them is reasonable and low risk to pair Rashford with Havertz, Martinelli, and Trossard, their only other healthy forwards. Rashford may even be better than 1-2 of them.

I imagine the sticking point in negotiations is we're trying to get an obligation to buy built in. I imagine Arsenal would ball at that, as would I. But you'd think we could work out a loan to cover all (or nearly all) his wages at least.

To me, that is far better than Rashford sitting the sidelines the rest of the year. Theres a fair chance he rebuilds some of his value in a better squad, and in the meanwhile we get wage coverage. If things work out poorly, it'll be hard to sell him in the summer. But it'll probably be hard to sell him anyway if he goes 9 months without playing football, and we could always try to reintegrate him next summer if there are no takers.

This all assumes Rashford is basically done at United for now. If we could reintegrate him now, I'd be more judicious in negotiations. But if not, covering his wages the rest of the year in a straight loan deal would be sufficient for me.
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This is the key assumption United management have to grapple with. If they view Marcus Rashford as completely useless then I would even agree to a free transfer just to get his 350k/week off the books. But I still can't see any club who could afford Rashford wanting to take on these obscene wages of a footballer who is nowhere near the quality expected of those wages. And of the clubs who might be willing to pay those wages, would Marcus want to play for them?

The only way I see this ending is either Marcus remaining with United and pulling his finger out, or we heavily subsidize his wages as he plays for a top club that he really doesn't want to play for but would reluctantly agree to play for. And that might not go down well with supporters of that new club.
 
Ali Dia said:
I'd say they've gauged the marketplace and he'll do a u turn and cop on, for a while at least. He'll know there's nowhere near the money anywhere else worth playing. He either trains and plays as hard as the manager requires or he sits out his career for however long. He's been coasting for years now, it has to end. The club have all the power here. It's a terrible contract but we hold all the cards really.
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Pity we can't just give him his cards, however as the time passes it looks like he will be staying
 
roseguy64 said:
There are far more players with "disciplinary issues" than you realise. A lot amongst the best players. It's just usually they don't let it affect their performances. If you started selling talented players who had problems then you'd quickly be falling down the league.
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Senior players do tend to get cockier with time. For example a young Keane allowed Clough to punch him. Prime Keane would have probably floored the drunk. SAF had most of his issues with senior players (Beckham, Ince, Keane, RVN, Kanchelskis etc).

Garnacho had already multiple disciplinary issues, he seemed to have burnt bridges with Atletico (Ben Jacobs), he pissed his adoptive nation when he publicly chose Ronaldo over Messi which is crazy considering that Argentina isn't the type of country you would dare insulting their own legends and he showed defiance when he refused to celebrate a goal in front of fans. That would be concerning if Garnacho was in his prime but we're talking of a 20 year old here. At that age he shouldn't be as defiant and as cocky and as said, this will probably get worse in time.

A well run club would take these things into account and would evaluate if its worth investing on a player who is defiant or if its worth cashing in now before he ruins his career and therefore his value. Ultimately its all about the player's worth. Will his defiance catapult him in becoming a better player? After all the likes of Cantona and Ibra were able to become top player despite having such defiant character. Some might say that such defiance was key to their development. However defiance might also lead to self destruction. For every Cantona there's a Gazza, for every Ibra there's a Best.

I do remember when Keith Gillespie left the club. He was involved in a fee + swap deal for Andy Cole which, considering the talent of the young player, sounded like a piss take. I was quite young at the time but I remember it quite vividly cause my cousin was so angry about it that we nearly crashed with his car. Turned out the SAF was right.
 
I wouldnt call it cockiness, its more confidence which in turn breeds leadership qualities.

A lot of what we're seeing particularly with the likes of Rashford is a symptom rather than the player being the cause. 7 years at the club, a lot of those years have been tough, and it saps the energy out of you. Especially when a) you've seen so many false dawns and b) the media (social and non-social) scrutinise what you do and twist things about you. Both those have been going on for years. Remember, this is a person who once played half a season with a broken back. Something's obviously drained him in that time for him to just give up.

I genuinely think a change would work wonders for him. Especially abroad where there would be less scrutiny. He's not a leader, he's not the person that will drag you out of a difficult spot. That's no slight on him though, some people just aren't. But I'm intrigued as to how he does in a team that's 'clicked'.
 
If he doesn't move, this January, we shouldn't reward him with a welcome back hug and sweep this under the carpet. We should show him and future hold outs that we are also willing wreck them, throw the whole Maresca-on-Sterling treatment on him; ban him from the first team, take the jersey number away and deregister him.

Show him that if he still wants to have a chance to play in the World Cup then it's not going to come cheap, he has to sacrifice to get a move and if he doesn't we are more than willing to end his career. If he has any hunger left in him he will do the needful, if not he becomes an example.
 
waza7111 said:
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These stories always make me wonder what he actually did, or rather didn't do, in this case.

Is he just being lazy as feck, or refusing to do drills, or just not playing well in training? Would be wild for him to have a new coach come in and visibly half arse it.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
These stories always make me wonder what he actually did, or rather didn't do, in this case.

Is he just being lazy as feck, or refusing to do drills, or just not playing well in training? Would be wild for him to have a new coach come in and visibly half arse it.
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I think that's a large part of it, general application and how you train. If he repeatedly isn't meeting the standards the new coach has set, and has been effectively punished for it, it's testament to the new coach and how is he demanding of the squad. And going off of even the last two performances, the squad is responding.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
These stories always make me wonder what he actually did, or rather didn't do, in this case.

Is he just being lazy as feck, or refusing to do drills, or just not playing well in training? Would be wild for him to have a new coach come in and visibly half arse it.
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I think it's a combination of both and the club will have statistics to back it up.

For fans, you don't even have to delve too deep. Just the eye test will show you. There is no fundamental reason why Salah should be working harder and running harder on the pitch than Rashford. Except he is injured or has lung disease, it doesn't just make sense. The only explanation is motivation and application.

For me, the refusal to banish a player that was blatantly not putting in maximum effort was the beginning of the end for Ten Hag. You can't continue to play Rashford and then drop others for a lack of effort. Your credibility goes out the window.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
These stories always make me wonder what he actually did, or rather didn't do, in this case.

Is he just being lazy as feck, or refusing to do drills, or just not playing well in training? Would be wild for him to have a new coach come in and visibly half arse it.
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Can't see him refusing to do whatever training is setup, but he just does it badly as whatever spark he had is faded.

His off-field work and life overshadowed his playing career and can't be recovered.

Lucky for him he has a world star salary to sit on for years, even though I'd imagine he has a lot of hanger-ons to finance.

He needs a move, knows he needs a move but will not budge on that salary, so salary trumps playing.
 
Adisa said:
I think it's a combination of both and the club will have statistics to back it up.

For fans, you don't even have to delve too deep. Just the eye test will show you. There is no fundamental reason why Salah should be working harder and running harder on the pitch than Rashford. Except he is injured or has lung disease, it doesn't just make sense. The only explanation is motivation and application.

For me, the refusal to banish a player that was blatantly not putting in maximum effort was the beginning of the end for Ten Hag. You can't continue to play Rashford and then drop others for a lack of effort. Your credibility goes out the window.
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Yes, I was thinking about the incident one time when Rashford thought he was being subbed off by ETH. His whole reaction said 'who me??'. As if why on earth would he be subbed – even though he was underperforming again. But of course it wasn't Rashford, it was someone else being subbed. Says it all for me, that.
 
Adisa said:
I think it's a combination of both and the club will have statistics to back it up.

For fans, you don't even have to delve too deep. Just the eye test will show you. There is no fundamental reason why Salah should be working harder and running harder on the pitch than Rashford. Except he is injured or has lung disease, it doesn't just make sense. The only explanation is motivation and application.

For me, the refusal to banish a player that was blatantly not putting in maximum effort was the beginning of the end for Ten Hag. You can't continue to play Rashford and then drop others for a lack of effort. Your credibility goes out the window.
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This. ETH pandered to him and lost his credibility. The problem with ETH was how opportunistic he was in latching on to short term form/results, remember how McTominay's goal threat was exploited, but forgot emphasis on developing a style and making it sustainable.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
These stories always make me wonder what he actually did, or rather didn't do, in this case.

Is he just being lazy as feck, or refusing to do drills, or just not playing well in training? Would be wild for him to have a new coach come in and visibly half arse it.
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He visibly half arses matches at times so…
 
Adisa said:
I think it's a combination of both and the club will have statistics to back it up.

For fans, you don't even have to delve too deep. Just the eye test will show you. There is no fundamental reason why Salah should be working harder and running harder on the pitch than Rashford. Except he is injured or has lung disease, it doesn't just make sense. The only explanation is motivation and application.

For me, the refusal to banish a player that was blatantly not putting in maximum effort was the beginning of the end for Ten Hag. You can't continue to play Rashford and then drop others for a lack of effort. Your credibility goes out the window.
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Yeah it would be interesting if this is based off stats or simply Ruben seeing a player who is not visibly giving their all. The latter would be crazy given he was a new manager in and usually that is when players will put in the extra effort.
Cassidy said:
He visibly half arses matches at times so…
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I always imagined it might be the pressure of playing that got to him - early on I swear remember managers talking about him having a good attitude (LVG, Mou) but then I guess it waned. These days you can see him try but as soon as he loses the ball or someone goes past him, his head drops and you feel like he's given up.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
These stories always make me wonder what he actually did, or rather didn't do, in this case.

Is he just being lazy as feck, or refusing to do drills, or just not playing well in training? Would be wild for him to have a new coach come in and visibly half arse it.
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Well that's what he's done on the pitch so doubt it's any different in training.
I always remember the way Bellingham was looking at him when they were training for England. Like Rashford was just having a laugh and not taking it seriously.
 
It's Dortmund, they'd probably take him on loan this season, hype him up like Sancho and then not sign him permanently come summer.
 
Lyng said:
If their hyping him up means some other club then sign him, Im fine with it :P
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True, you're right. It's just he's got 3,5 years left on his contract and on huge wages so it'll be difficult to get rid. But if he does well at Dortmund then great, there'd be more buyers ready to actually pay enough.
 
If I were in Marcus' 'camp' I would be looking at the Garnacho chat and be thinking: 'Go to Napoli.'

Milan is a bigger club, yes, but they're fighting for the European spots and Rashford will have to dislodge Leão to play where he likes to. Napoli are top, and after Inter dropped points yesterday, even if Inter win their game in hand, they'll be separated only by goal difference. If it's just a loan why not go and be part of a title race, especially with Kvara gone to PSG?

Why leave United to fight for Europa League football elsewhere? Surely that's a backward step. Go see if you can win a Scudetto.
 
#07 said:
If I were in Marcus' 'camp' I would be looking at the Garnacho chat and be thinking: 'Go to Napoli.'

Milan is a bigger club, yes, but they're fighting for the European spots and Rashford will have to dislodge Leão to play where he likes to. Napoli are top, and after Inter dropped points yesterday, even if Inter win their game in hand, they'll be separated only by goal difference. If it's just a loan why not go and be part of a title race, especially with Kvara gone to PSG?

Why leave United to fight for Europa League football elsewhere? Surely that's a backward step. Go see if you can win a Scudetto.
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He’ll get to team up with former players too in McTominay and Lukaku
 
AneRu said:
This. ETH pandered to him and lost his credibility. The problem with ETH was how opportunistic he was in latching on to short term form/results, remember how McTominay's goal threat was exploited, but forgot emphasis on developing a style and making it sustainable.
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I think its more complex than that. Mitten stated that all managers had issues with Rashy. ETH is said to have gotten the job because he promised to get the best out of Rashford. Its evident that the previous regime made it obvious that whatever happens, the Rashy project had to be successful. Which explains why Rashford seem to have gone away with everything which including having a club legend/manager apologizing to him in public. It also explains why things only changed when the new administration came in.
 
devilish said:
I think its more complex than that. Mitten stated that all managers had issues with Rashy. ETH is said to have gotten the job because he promised to get the best out of Rashford. Its evident that the previous regime made it obvious that whatever happens, the Rashy project had to be successful. Which explains why Rashford seem to have gone away with everything which including having a club legend/manager apologizing to him in public. It also explains why things only changed when the new administration came in.
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Didn’t Mitten then partially u-turn on his comments? I also find it implausible any manager was tasked with getting the best out of any one player, rather than the team generally - who has said that was the case?

Also, it’s utter nonsense that Ole was “forced to apologise” to Rashford. He, very sensibly, clarified his comments probably because it wasn’t seen as a good look FOR THE CLUB to be suggesting football was more important than food for kids.
 
alexthelion said:
Only in LaLaLand. In the real world probably half that with "normal" wages, but less with what he's on.
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Peak Rashford was a player scoring 30 goals in open play and creating 15 more from left wing who constantly scored against the biggest clubs. While being under 25.

This was at a time when players like Nunez and Grealish were going for 100m and Antony for 80+.

Annoying to think about but there gave certainly been times when we could have almost certainly got 100m for him.

I do think those crazy transfer fees have tapered off anyway.
 
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