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2016-17 Performances

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6.0 Season Average Rating
Appearances
41
Clean sheets
16
Goals
1
Assists
2
Yellow cards
6
Status
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Cutch said:
Nah feck that. That's what makes him so endearing. He got costa wound up that much that he had no influence on the game
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Joking aside though he could have missed 6 games this season under a different referee in a couple of games. That's what I mean by just being a bit cuter. He can still leave his mark and ruffle a few feathers but one of two of his decisions have been a bit too obvious and he's only got away with it due to poor reffing.

No major complaints though, he's done really well.
 
Jaybomb said:
Rojo this season has been better than Smalling ever was.
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That's fair enough for you to think that. I'd disagree and say Smalling in the first half of last season was better, but Rojo has blatantly been our best central defender this season. At the moment it's Rojo + another, and Bailly seems to be getting past that horror patch he had when he came from the ACON so I expect he will rightfully hold that place. Overall I'd say Bailly and Smalling have been at a similar level this season, both having good periods and bad periods. Bailly's good periods have been better, but his bad periods have also been worse.

My only issue is that if you have to bring Smalling's performance against Chelsea into the equation it hurts your own point, as he shouldn't have even been playing that match because of injury. Point to other matches if you want, but that particular match shouldn't be used as it was an outlier. The worst match he's ever had just happens to be the same match he is playing with a broken toe, an injury that after that match takes him out of the team for a month even though we're suffering a bad injury problem in his position and he'd obviously be in there if fit. It's to his credit that he tried to play in that match despite the injury.
 
MadDogg said:
It really annoys me every time somebody brings this up. Smalling was playing with a broken toe; there's no way he should have been playing that game at all, and it's hardly a surprise that he was shaky.
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Smalling's always been shaky, with or without a broken toe. Suffice to say we ain't missing him one bit at the moment. But this is the Rojo thread and he was only pipped to the MOTM by Herrera yesterday. How he handlled Costa was fecking immense. He's only going to get better next season. Has to be Bailly/Rojo as first choice centre back pairing. One of my favourite United players at the mo.
 
The revisionism about Smalling is immense again. He was a beast under van Gaal bar the 2nd half of the season last year. People have easily forgotten how he was defending on his own for a while, absolutely bossing attackers with pace and strength. Rojo has been our best defender this season though and Smalling 3rd/4th.
 
imposes himself at the back, aggressive, likes to stick his foot in, quick as well......he's been a revelation this season at centre back under mourinho.
 
MadDogg said:
That's fair enough for you to think that. I'd disagree and say Smalling in the first half of last season was better, but Rojo has blatantly been our best central defender this season. At the moment it's Rojo + another, and Bailly seems to be getting past that horror patch he had when he came from the ACON so I expect he will rightfully hold that place. Overall I'd say Bailly and Smalling have been at a similar level this season, both having good periods and bad periods. Bailly's good periods have been better, but his bad periods have also been worse.

My only issue is that if you have to bring Smalling's performance against Chelsea into the equation it hurts your own point, as he shouldn't have even been playing that match because of injury. Point to other matches if you want, but that particular match shouldn't be used as it was an outlier. The worst match he's ever had just happens to be the same match he is playing with a broken toe, an injury that after that match takes him out of the team for a month even though we're suffering a bad injury problem in his position and he'd obviously be in there if fit. It's to his credit that he tried to play in that match despite the injury.
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Thing with Rojo is the way he defends really fits in with the way the game is evolving. Smalling would have been a top CB in the 90's but for me Rojo allows us to press higher and keep a higher line in general, which makes us theoretically better able to keep the ball in opponents third. He's better on the ball and more aggressive with his passing too.
 
Fantastic performance, though can say that about everyone yesterday. So picking out the extra positives I loved how he was marshaling everyone up the pitch constantly so we weren't sitting so deep and getting the crowd to make more noise. Costa really met his match in another nasty player yesterday didn't he? :)
 
Sammyjunn said:
The revisionism about Smalling is immense again. He was a beast under van Gaal bar the 2nd half of the season last year. People have easily forgotten how he was defending on his own for a while, absolutely bossing attackers with pace and strength. Rojo has been our best defender this season though and Smalling 3rd/4th.
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Smalling had a 6-8 month spell where he was good, that was about 14/15 months ago.

He's had the odd decent game since but hasn't hit those levels and you start to wonder whether that good spell was a purple patch in and around a lot of average performances.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Smalling had a 6-8 month spell where he was good, that was about 14/15 months ago.

He's had the odd decent game since but hasn't hit those levels and you start to wonder whether that good spell was a purple patch in and around a lot of average performances.
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Which is the concern with Rojo as well

To hedge our bets we should still be looking to sign a CB in the summer
 
Chaky_Best said:
I found him very poor yesterday and this weekend.

He went back from Bolivia where he played with his NT, he may be tired, but yesterday it was the old Rojo.

Bad defensively and only throwing long balls.

Sorry but I'm still not confident having him on my defence
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You still hold this view? That's the second time this season He's had Costa in his pocket. He's also tamed Kane and lukaku at old Trafford.
 
charlenefan said:
Which is the concern with Rojo as well

To hedge our bets we should still be looking to sign a CB in the summer
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I agree, but I'd be shafting off one of Jones/Smalling tbh.

Rojo, whenever played at CB (includes Sporting) has done well. It's clear he's not a LB.
 
MadMike said:
Coolness? C'mon now. Twice he lashed out.

He's a very good defender but easy to get under the skin of and prone to trying something stupid (like stamp, elbow etc) to get back at you. It shows great immaturity that's why I never really warmed up to him. He's also a prime hoofer of the ball, more than any other defender.

I'm just putting it on record that I'm not a Rojo fan on a day when he's had a very good performance (again), so that I don't get accused of just waiting for a bad performance to judge him :D
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I don't think it is easy to get under his skin. He may have struck out a bit at Costa yesterday (calling it a strke out is even an exaggeration tbh) but he was always in control of himself bar that. Haven't really seen him get riled in any other matches either. He does fly into tackles but I think that's just his style rather than an immaturity on his part.
 
VanGaalEra said:
Smalling had a 6-8 month spell where he was good, that was about 14/15 months ago.
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Exactly.
This other issue I have is that if Smalling was so damn good....single handedly defended against attackers, how was it that DDG had to make so many super saves? Why was DDG our POTY, when it should've been Smalling?
The truth is that while Smalling is a good defender, he isn't as good a defender as some believe. A great defender prevents the ball from reaching the GK. Yesterday's game was the perfect example, where our defence was so good, DDG did not have to make a save. THAT is a good defence.

Having DDG making multiple super saves in every match is not good defending and that is what we saw repeatedly last season.
 
sizzling sausages said:
I don't think it is easy to get under his skin. He may have struck out a bit at Costa yesterday (calling it a strke out is even an exaggeration tbh) but he was always in control of himself bar that. Haven't really seen him get riled in any other matches either. He does fly into tackles but I think that's just his style rather than an immaturity on his part.
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What? He stamped on Hazard the last time we met Chelsea, only a month ago. You forgot that already? He also got in an altercation with Rondon of WBA with both getting booked. He also lashed out in the Argentina-Uruguay international game. He's also had a number of two-footed, definite red card challenges that he got away with; the ones against Crystal Palace and Everton immediately spring to mind.

There's many things Marcus Rojo is, but in control of himself is not one of them. He could have easily missed 6-7 games with suspension this season and the only thing that saved him was incompetent refereeing which is nothing to brag about.
 
sunama said:
Exactly.
This other issue I have is that if Smalling was so damn good....single handedly defended against attackers, how was it that DDG had to make so many super saves? Why was DDG our POTY, when it should've been Smalling?
The truth is that while Smalling is a good defender, he isn't as good a defender as some believe. A great defender prevents the ball from reaching the GK. Yesterday's game was the perfect example, where our defence was so good, DDG did not have to make a save. THAT is a good defence.

Having DDG making multiple super saves in every match is not good defending and that is what we saw repeatedly last season.
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He was buddy. Smalling was the player's POTY, while DDG was the fans POTY. If you knew that, then I'm not sure why you think one has higher value than the other (both pretty meaningless in reality). And some shots will always get through to the goalkeeper, during a whole season. I don't see how your argument stands.

Using yesterday as an example, when a very large part of the defensive job was done by formation, tactics and the midfield is not the idea either. Herrera was doing a man-mark on Hazard, Darmian played as 3rd CB with Young playing as fullback. Even Pogba did a lot more marking than he usually does. No disrespect to the defenders, they did a brilliant job too full credit to them, but this was a team effort. We don't set up like that in 99% of our games and you know it.

Rojo has been very good, credit where it's due. But this revisionist attitude with regards to Smalling, is pretty outrageous.
 
The people overrating Smalling on here is crazy. Aside from the first few months of last season he has been very average, and unfortunately I think that's probably his ceiling. He is never going to be world class, like it or not. My opposition fan friends laugh at how much we overrate Smalling and Jones. They even say they are a weak link in our squad.
 
MadMike said:
What? He stamped on Hazard the last time we met Chelsea, only a month ago. You forgot that already? He also got in an altercation with Rondon of WBA with both getting booked. He also lashed out in the Argentina-Uruguay international game. He's also had a number of two-footed, definite red card challenges that he got away with; the ones against Crystal Palace and Everton immediately spring to mind.

There's many things Marcus Rojo is, but in control of himself is not one of them. He could have easily missed 6-7 games with suspension this season and the only thing that saved him was incompetent refereeing which is nothing to brag about.
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I actually did forget the stamp on Hazard admittedly :lol:

Those challenges weren't because he was riled up though, he just likes to dive in. He's a player that definitely plays on the edge and will inevitably cross the line sometimes because of that but I don't think he's some sort of walking red card risk, like your post seemed to suggest.

JoaquinJoaquin said:
The people overrating Smalling on here is crazy. Aside from the first few months of last season he has been very average, and unfortunately I think that's probably his ceiling. He is never going to be world class, like it or not. My opposition fan friends laugh at how much we overrate Smalling and Jones. They even say they are a weak link in our squad.
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Smalling was great for pretty much 3/4 of van Gaal's reign. Was good under Moyes and Ferguson too when played as a CB. I agree he'll never be world class but he's certainly not average. Your opposition fan friends laughing at him is strange when he's better than most of the options at the other top clubs.
 
sizzling sausages said:
Smalling was great for pretty much 3/4 of van Gaal's reign. Was good under Moyes and Ferguson too when played as a CB. I agree he'll never be world class but he's certainly not average. Your opposition fan friends laughing at him is strange when he's better than most of the options at the other top clubs.
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You're re-writing history here. He was good for what say 6 months of last season at a push. And then he transformed back into the Smalling we all know.

He isn't better than most of the options at the other top teams though, this is what I mean in saying people seriously overrate him for some strange reason.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
You're re-writing history here. He was good for what say 6 months of last season at a push. And then he transformed back into the Smalling we all know.

He isn't better than most of the options at the other top teams though, this is what I mean in saying people seriously overrate him for some strange reason.
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He was very good from the red card against City in van Gaal's first season until the second half of last season. To say otherwise is just wrong.

He definitely wouldn't start for Spurs and probably wouldn't for Chelsea in the system they use. Although he's better than Cahill in a 2 man defence, imo. But he's certainly a better defender than City and Liverpool's options and he's definitely better than Gabriel for Arsenal too. I'd rate him above Mustafi also but not by much so wouldn't argue if people think he wouldn't start for them.
 
Our best defender and one of our best players overall this season.

Don't know what Jose made to him. Even in the few number of matches he played with LVG at this position , he didn't look as solid as this. Jose completely transformed him and I don't know how.

At the start of the season I was calling for his head and now I can't imagine our defense without him.
 
I was convinced for a long time he was one of the worst players I'd seen regularly start games for Utd. I still maintain he's a bad left back.

He's been a revelation in his natural position at centre back though. He was especially fantastic yesterday.

Loved him acting the cnut and winding Costa up.
 
JoaquinJoaquin said:
The people overrating Smalling on here is crazy. Aside from the first few months of last season he has been very average, and unfortunately I think that's probably his ceiling. He is never going to be world class, like it or not. My opposition fan friends laugh at how much we overrate Smalling and Jones. They even say they are a weak link in our squad.
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Everyone I know says that too.

Smalling and Jones will never reach world class heights.

Rojo and Bailly on the other hand can.

Rojo reminds me of a typical Mourinho defender. An aggressive fighting type in the mold of Sergio Ramos. He wouldn't look out of place in a Real Madrid or Atletico side. He would be getting his plaudits if he was putting in these performances playing for those sides, that's for sure.
 
Been pleasantly surprised with him this season. Fair play to him he's worked his socks off and has been our best CB this year. Nuisance to play against, not afraid to get stuck in too. You need at least 2-3 bastards in a good team.
 
The issue Jose has is in the summer, does he bring in someone to play first team or someone who can provide cover. Personally think this partnership deserves a chance to start next season as first choice. I still think Smalling has a part to play in our squad, but does Jose rely on him and Tuanzbe for cover or bring in another body if he moves Jones on.
 
Oldyella said:
The issue Jose has is in the summer, does he bring in someone to play first team or someone who can provide cover. Personally think this partnership deserves a chance to start next season as first choice. I still think Smalling has a part to play in our squad, but does Jose rely on him and Tuanzbe for cover or bring in another body if he moves Jones on.
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I think we will bring somebody in but not an extravagant $40m defender. Somebody reliable to provide competition. I think most the transfer kitty will be spent on a new midfielder and 2 attacking players. I'm fine with that. I'm excited by Bailly's potential and I think Rojo has earned the right to start the season in the first XI.
 
I'd be more than happy for Rojo and Bailly to be our CB partnership next season.

We should look to bring in another CB for the sake of squad depth however, let go of one of smalling or jones (preferably smalling).
 
PepsiCola said:
I'd be more than happy for Rojo and Bailly to be our CB partnership next season.

We should look to bring in another CB for the sake of squad depth however, let go of one of smalling or jones (preferably smalling).
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I think if we had to choose between Jones or Smalling to leave ,then it's better to be Jones imo. Even though he played better than Chris this season, he's injury prone and spends more than half of the season recovering from his injuries . These kind of players aren't worth keeping in the team even if they aren't bad , you don't find them most of the season anyway .
 
Giménez is being linked with us again, and IMO, if we sell one of Jones and Smalling, he'll be the perfect addition to the team because he's very much in the athletic and aggressive Rojo or Bailly category. If you count the number of games we could/should play next season:

League: 38
Europe: conservative 6+4 estimate
Domestic Cups: ~10

That's a total of around 60 games - which is a lot, especially when you combine it with the 2018 World Cup, and if you swap all three central defenders on a healthy basis, you could stand to give every one of them 35+ starts. Plus, because Giménez is stylistically similar to those two, you won't have to worry about changes in the system or suffer a considerable qualitative gulf (which can be an issue with cheaper cover type solutions). Don't think it's any different from Bayern - who have Martínez, Boateng, Hummels and are adding Süle to that set, or Juventus who are carrying Bonucci, Chiellini, Rugani, Benatia, Barzagli for 2 defensive position's in Allegri's new system, and will add Caldara from Atalanta. We will still lack a superb passer from the back to open teams up, but it's not a necessity for Mourinho (who wants proper, resolute defenders - first and foremost).

Also, he can play the midfield disruptor role that José often uses in big, big matches:


 
He wins headers every time i watch him play, even against giants. This makes no sense with respect to his size. If he could learn to control the direction of the hearer perfectly, he could be our Ramos during corners.
 
Invictus said:
Giménez is being linked with us again, and IMO, if we sell one of Jones and Smalling, he'll be the perfect addition to the team because he's very much in the athletic and aggressive Rojo or Bailly category. If you count the number of games we could/should play next season:

League: 38
Europe: conservative 6+4 estimate
Domestic Cups: ~10

That's a total of around 60 games - which is a lot, especially when you combine it with the 2018 World Cup, and if you swap all three central defenders on a healthy basis, you could stand to give every one of them 35+ starts. Plus, because Giménez is stylistically similar to those two, you won't have to worry about changes in the system or suffer a considerable qualitative gulf (which can be an issue with cheaper cover type solutions). Don't think it's any different from Bayern - who have Martínez, Boateng, Hummels and are adding Süle to that set, or Juventus who are carrying Bonucci, Chiellini, Rugani, Benatia, Barzagli for 2 defensive position's in Allegri's new system, and will add Caldara from Atalanta. We will still lack a superb passer from the back to open teams up, but it's not a necessity for Mourinho (who wants proper, resolute defenders - first and foremost).

Also, he can play the midfield disruptor role that José often uses in big, big matches:


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Why's this in a Rojo performance discussion thread?
 
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