Anyone can get an assist for a player who isn't marked and free on goal.
Marcelo Or Roberto Carlos
- Thread starter Trex
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Anyone can get an assist for a player who isn't marked and free on goal.
No one mentioned Celtic ya nutter
It's just a fact that Robertson is positionally poor.
Roberto Carlos by a country mile. The real madrid lineup used to have zidane starting on the left on paper, but in reality he drifted off into the middle and Bob just dominated the left hand side of the pitch by himself. A machine.
No one mentioned Celtic ya nutter
It's just a fact that Robertson is positionally poor.
Because of one instance?
And Trent is absolved? OK then.
This posts makes no sense.
The dude is a Celtic fan. Sounds like a bitter one to me.
Still confused? Message me and I'll get the chalkboard out.
Because of one instance?
And Trent is absolved? OK then.
The dude is a Celtic fan. Sounds like a bitter one to me.
Still confused? Message me and I'll get the chalkboard out.
I just showed you three different images?
And they would've won the quadruple if not for them.Trent isn't absolved. He's atrocious defensively but criticism of his defending is pretty widespread at this point, no?
Nothing to do with Celtic man. Seems like every post I see from you on here is some long winded rant about Celtic or Rangers
I just showed you three different images?
Trent isn't absolved. He's atrocious defensively but criticism of his defending is pretty widespread at this point, no?
Nothing to do with Celtic man. Seems like every post I see from you on here is some long winded rant about Celtic or Rangers
Aye, because football is all about a one transitional phase. Show me three of the clips and I bet that other players are just as culpable.
Hell, go throughout the season and you'll see players making multiple errors and mistakes.
Liverpool played 71 matches this season and it all undone by three errors? Right. Logic called, it misses you.
Really? I haven't mentioned them in the Scotland thread. I'm not surprised you haven't browsed it.
I did. Which is why I give Rangers just as much shit.
No one mentioned Celtic ya nutter
It's just a fact that Robertson is positionally poor.
Not buying that.
For the Spurs goal Liverpool get rinsed on the break, Robertson tracks Son's run because Konate lets him go - and then leaves him to play offside. But because he's had to cover for Konate, Sessegnon is now free. So Robertson has to try and mark Sessegnon and Son. He ends up in an impossible situation due to others not doing their job.
The second Brighton goal is because Liverpool's midfield let runners off the back of them to create a 3 v 2 in Brighton's favour. Now arguably he should try and play offside. But he chose to drop off, which allows him to cover the player who shoots, and it's a gamble that almost plays off as he gets into a position to close him down, but he's that stretched he can't quite cut out the final shot. Bottom line is though that he's defending a 2 v 3 and the fault is elsewhere, again.
Against Real, we have to remember Klopp doesn't have his full-backs parked alongside his centre-halves. He expects them to push high. If we look at the full move, Real escape a high press on the edge of their box and you'll see at 57.55 on the match clock Robertson ends up in a 2v1 on his flank where he is the nearest man to the ball. He presses the ball - as he should because there is sufficient cover around him - and pushes the man 20 yards back up the park. At this point, the deepest left-sided Liverpool midfielder should drop into LB, but he stays too high and gets caught out. Fabinho makes the wrong move and Liverpool have a problem. That's not Robertson's fault, especially not in a collective Klopp system.
Not buying that.
For the Spurs goal Liverpool get rinsed on the break, Robertson tracks Son's run because Konate lets him go - and then leaves him to play offside. But because he's had to cover for Konate, Sessegnon is now free. So Robertson has to try and mark Sessegnon and Son. He ends up in an impossible situation due to others not doing their job.
The second Brighton goal is because Liverpool's midfield let runners off the back of them to create a 3 v 2 in Brighton's favour. Now arguably he should try and play offside. But he chose to drop off, which allows him to cover the player who shoots, and it's a gamble that almost plays off as he gets into a position to close him down, but he's that stretched he can't quite cut out the final shot. Bottom line is though that he's defending a 2 v 3 and the fault is elsewhere, again.
Against Real, we have to remember Klopp doesn't have his full-backs parked alongside his centre-halves. He expects them to push high. If we look at the full move, Real escape a high press on the edge of their box and you'll see at 57.55 on the match clock Robertson ends up in a 2v1 on his flank where he is the nearest man to the ball. He presses the ball - as he should because there is sufficient cover around him - and pushes the man 20 yards back up the park. At this point, the deepest left-sided Liverpool midfielder should drop into LB, but he stays too high and gets caught out. Fabinho makes the wrong move and Liverpool have a problem. That's not Robertson's fault, especially not in a collective Klopp system.
I'm not saying he's exclusively at fault but he's played a large part in all of them.
The Spurs one, there's no need to stay so deep once he sees that Son is about 5 yards behind the rest of the defence. I'd argue that Konate covers Son enough that Robertson doesn't even need to track Son that deeply in the first place.
Not buying that.
For the Spurs goal Liverpool get rinsed on the break, Robertson tracks Son's run because Konate lets him go - and then leaves him to play offside. But because he's had to cover for Konate, Sessegnon is now free. So Robertson has to try and mark Sessegnon and Son. He ends up in an impossible situation due to others not doing their job.
The second Brighton goal is because Liverpool's midfield let runners off the back of them to create a 3 v 2 in Brighton's favour. Now arguably he should try and play offside. But he chose to drop off, which allows him to cover the player who shoots, and it's a gamble that almost plays off as he gets into a position to close him down, but he's that stretched he can't quite cut out the final shot. Bottom line is though that he's defending a 2 v 3 and the fault is elsewhere, again.
Against Real, we have to remember Klopp doesn't have his full-backs parked alongside his centre-halves. He expects them to push high. If we look at the full move, Real escape a high press on the edge of their box and you'll see at 57.55 on the match clock Robertson ends up in a 2v1 on his flank where he is the nearest man to the ball. He presses the ball - as he should because there is sufficient cover around him - and pushes the man 20 yards back up the park. At this point, the deepest left-sided Liverpool midfielder should drop into LB, but he stays too high and gets caught out. Fabinho makes the wrong move and Liverpool have a problem. That's not Robertson's fault, especially not in a collective Klopp system.
Brilliant post.
You actually read my mind. I was going to analyse and watch through the goals when I had more time.
As I said, though, the dude is obviously feeling butt hurt by missing out on Robertson.
I mean, blaming one single player for making errors for 3 goals, in a 71 match season, whilst absolving all of the other Liverpool players in the subsequent phases of play, and saying that is the sole reason why Liverpool didn't win 3/4 trophies, borders on insane.
Do you make beeping sounds when you backtrack that much?
RC was a much tougher defender.
I never understood the comparison, Marcelo is Junior from 1982 v2.
He was much much worse in the NT. Even Filipe Luis did better than him.
In terms of attack and aesthetics though, he will probably be #1 in history
I never understood the comparison, Marcelo is Junior from 1982 v2.
He was much much worse in the NT. Even Filipe Luis did better than him.
In terms of attack and aesthetics though, he will probably be #1 in history
Aye. We are in agreement.
Yeah, sure. Whatever you say Houdini. Neymars season in 2015/16 alone equals Sharpes whole career.
Lee Sharpe career stats
310 games
36 goals
28 assists
Neymar 2015/16
49 games
31 goals
25 assists
Get back to me whenever retired Sharpe records a season like Neymars in 2017/18
30 games
28 goals
16 assists
Way to diss Lee Sharpe.
Do you know what sarcasm is?
I'd rather have a Traffic Cone than Neymar.
Now give me Traffic Cone's career stats.
One of these players is better than the other and it's not even close.
I've got nothing against Lee Sharpe. And there wasn't even a hint of sarcasm in your original post, just regular Neymar bashing even though you claim it was tongue in cheek. Prime Neymar would probably be the best ever in the Premier League, he is that much better than Hazard, de Bruyne, Silva, Cazorla, Alexis Sanchez, Özil, Giggs, Bergkamp.Way to diss Lee Sharpe.
Do you know what sarcasm is?
I'd rather have a Traffic Cone than Neymar.
Now give me Traffic Cone's career stats.
Only ones in with a shout would be Henry who at his prime was more or less equal to Mbappe (in my view Mbappe has already surpassed Henry by quite some margin) and Ronaldo (who didn't hit his prime until Real) but I'd still have prime Neymar above them no matter what people think about his antics.
Bobby Carlos and it ain't close
Where is the backtracking? I never blamed Robertson exclusively. If you analyse every goal of course there's multiple errors on show. That's football. Fact remains that Robertson has been positionally suspect on more than a few occasions.
Where the feck did I absolve other Liverpool players?
Trent is atrocious defensively. I've said that before and I'll say it again.You're being really weird tbh mate. You've got me absolving every other Liverpool player of every goal they've ever conceded and you're convinced I'm somehow butt hurt about Celtic releasing Robertson when he was about 12 or whatever age he was. I legit don't care about that because I don't rate him as highly as you do.
Maybe have our full backs watch that in a Clockwork Orange style for a few days. If there's anything that they all have in common it's not tracking back with hunger.
Marcelo in his prime (which was a fairly long period) used to cover that left hand side all by himself too. He had Ronnie free roaming on the "left" ahead of him.
You do realize that Lee Sharpe is more of a Luke Chadwick youth product than a Ryan Giggs youth product, right? If you didn't detect the least bit of humour (it was a meteor sized piece of humour) then you need to go the hospital and have an urgent humour injection.
So, you think if "if I'm grazed by a fingernail, I'll roll around a dozen times, holding my face, whilst squealing like a pig giving birth to a dozen hybrids of pig and dinosaur pups" Neyar joined the EPL he would outshine the accomplishments of David Silva, Ryan Giggs, Eden Hazard, Kevin De Bruyne and Dennis Bergkamp? (I'll ignore the other names, as they make little impact)
How can you say that you have no sense of humour and then say that?
OK. Well, football is all about opinions... even if they are absolutely batshit crazy.
Neymar is emblematic of what is wrong with modern football(ers) what with the man-child hysterics, so much so that no one outside Brazil and the team that he's playing for at the time, likes. The fact that he gets paid €2.5m/pa for not criticising the manager and €375k/pa for greeting the PSG fans before and after matches, is so ludicrously absurd that it could only happen in the world of PSG.
I honestly couldn't compare him to any player, as literally every time I've seen him, he's on the ground like a crying toddler, more times that's on his feet.
He is what's wrong with football. (Or one of the things)
Imagine him being on the same park as Rino Gatusso or Roy Keane or Vinny Jones. He'd exit the stadium in four ambulances.
Oh my Christ. You like Mbappe, too? The most overrated twosome playing at the sane club? That is the recipe for success. *Holds up neon lights that say "Sarcasm"*
But fine. That's your opinion.
Where is the backtracking? I never blamed Robertson exclusively. If you analyse every goal of course there's multiple errors on show. That's football. Fact remains that Robertson has been positionally suspect on more than a few occasions.
Where the feck did I absolve other Liverpool players?
You're being really weird tbh mate. You've got me absolving every other Liverpool player of every goal they've ever conceded and you're convinced I'm somehow butt hurt about Celtic releasing Robertson when he was about 12 or whatever age he was. I legit don't care about that because I don't rate him as highly as you do.
You literally blamed Robertson for blowing the quadruple. Then you panicking and said it wasn't all his fault.
Oh? You didn't blame Andrew Robertson exclusively? Obviously I misinterpreted you.
So, when you said "And they would've won the quadruple if not for them (Those three goals vs Liverpool that you claimed were the mistake of Robertson, but you've since your pants and backtracked) what did you actually mean? Because, it sounds like you're saying that Liverpool would've won the quadruple if it wasn't for those goals, which you seems to blame Andy Robertson for. Verbatim.
You didn't mention Trent. You said, and I quote, "And they would've won the quadruple if not for them." whilst posting a pic of three goals were you perceived were the sole fault of Robertson.
You think he was 12 when Celtic released Andy Robertson for him to then stack shelves at M&S? No. He was 18. You don't rate him? Well, he's no Greg Taylor...
Suppose you know more than the Eufa committee, as he was in the 2021/2022 Europeans Cup Team of the year:
Yeah. I'm being weird? Aye, alright. You're the one singling out, who many people believe to be the best left back in the world, for leading to three goals that lead to Liverpool failing to win the quadruple. L.O.L. You're the one who said it, mate.
I never knew that 2 goals could blow a hole in a 38 match season? Ouch. Tough at the top. Not that you'd know
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Anywho.
Getting this thread back on topic.
Roberto Carlos for the w.
Getting this thread back on topic.
Roberto Carlos for the w.
Who do you guys think has the better honours list?
i think Carlos bc of the World Cup and copas, although Marcelo has more champions leagues
i think Carlos bc of the World Cup and copas, although Marcelo has more champions leagues
Just looked at their honour list.
Both are incredible.
But yeah, I'd say Roberto Carlos, simply because of the World Cup. Marcelo won 3 more La Liga's and two more European Cups, but Carlos won the biggest one.
They both have had absolutely amazing careers, but it has to be R. Carlos given that he won the World Cup plus 2 Copa Americas for Brazil, and of course all as an important first team starter. That's more enough to make up for Marcelo's additional silverware at the Bernabeu IMO.
R. Carlos did win league titles in Brazil before moving to Europe as well, but different people might place a different level of importance on that.
While Marcelo has 2 more Champions League winners' medals, it's difficult to include this last one as a major factor in any comparisons between these players. He only got on the pitch 3 times during Real's 13 matches, all 3 times as a 2nd half sub, 2 of which were during the group stages. In 6 out of their 7 knockout stage matches, the exception being the 2nd leg against Chelsea when he came on as a late sub, he never got on the pitch at all (apart from during post-match celebrations). Of course he will have been excellent in terms of team spirit, inspiring younger players' etc.
During Real's winning run in 2013/2014, I think that Marcelo was in the starting line-up in the group stages, while Coentrao was in the starting line-up in the knockout matches, although Marcelo came on as a sub in the final, instantly improved their attacking threat and had a big impact, so he definitely contributed enough there.
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FFS. Yes, I obviously "panicked" at someone disagreeing with me on an internet messageboard
Clearly.
The point isn't that Robertson was exclusively to blame for the goals in question. It's that if his positioning had been better in those moments they conceded those goals, they wouldn't have conceded the goals and they would've won the quadruple. His poor play compounded it and given he was the last man for the EPL ones, that's a fatal blow. Gio's point was that things had broken down for Liverpool before Robertson got involved as the last man which is totally fair and he's right but that doesn't absolve him of blame for the goals going in. If he didn't drop so deep v Spurs then Son is at least 5 yards offside and Sessegnon has no one to square the ball to for a tap in. That goal cost Liverpool two points. They lost the league by one...
Actually he was 15. If you're going to be a smart arse, at least make sure you've got your facts right.
No idea why you keep bringing this up tbh
For what it's worth, if Celtic had kept him we would've sold him to Southampton or something by now and it would've hampered Kieran Tierney's progress who is one of my all time favourite players. So again, I really don't care And I didn't say I don't rate him. I said I don't rate him as highly as you do, which, given you said you wouldn't swap him for any left back in the world, is pretty damn high.
This is so cringe
What team do you support? And which diddy team did you really support before you started seeking glory in pastures new?
Peak Roberto Carlos was amazing but he was getting by on reputation in his last 3 maybe even 4 seasons at Madrid. He probably edges it due to speed and goal scoring ability.
Marcelo is the most skilled fullback I've ever seen though. There were times that in a team that had Ronaldo, Bale, Isco, Modric, Benzema etc he was the one that had the most ability to open up tight defences. His skill and technique for a fullback was unreal.
Marcelo is the most skilled fullback I've ever seen though. There were times that in a team that had Ronaldo, Bale, Isco, Modric, Benzema etc he was the one that had the most ability to open up tight defences. His skill and technique for a fullback was unreal.
Uh, no. Between 2015 and 2018 he was THE go to guy to unlock defences. He was Alexander-Arnold on the left
Roberto Carlos and its not close. Carlos/Dani Alves would be a better poll.
I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me
Roberto Carlos all day long.
Kind of bothI'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me
Point is he wasn't "at times" the guy we relied to. He was our #1 option in terms of creation, by far
FFS. Yes, I obviously "panicked" at someone disagreeing with me on an internet messageboard
You made a statement and then completely retracted it. What else would you call it? The quickest u-turn in history?
If you're going to be such a pedant I'm very sure that you could trail through all 38 EPL matches and zone in and identify who should've done what, with multiple players, on multiple occasions. You do realize that Liverpool conceded 26 goals, don't you? The two goals that you're talking about, that Robertson is supposedly to blame for, don't much by fourteen. I find it sinister that you even replied to my initial post with a blatant dig at Robertson.
Yes he was. I knew he was 15. I also knew that you were saying the wrong age to show your alleged indifference.
No idea why you keep bringing this up tbh
You're saying that Tierney is better than Robertson? Who's captain of Scotland? Who plays at left wing back for Scotland? You legit probably don't know, so I'll help you out. Robertson does.
He's in the European Cup Team of the season. Clearly I'm not in the minority.
"That is so cringe"? What are you, 12?
Who do I support? I'm on a Manchester United forum. I'll give you 22 months to join the dots.
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You made a statement and then completely retracted it. What else would you call it? The quickest u-turn in history?
If you're going to be such a pedant I'm very sure that you could trail through all 38 EPL matches and zone in and identify who should've done what, with multiple players, on multiple occasions. You do realize that Liverpool conceded 26 goals, don't you? The two goals that you're talking about, that Robertson is supposedly to blame for, don't much by fourteen. I find it sinister that you even replied to my initial post with a blatant dig at Robertson.
Yes he was. I knew he was 15. I also knew that you were saying the wrong age to show your alleged indifference.
You're saying that Tierney is better than Robertson? Who's captain of Scotland? Who plays at left wing back for Scotland? You legit probably don't know, so I'll help you out. Robertson does.
He's in the European Cup Team of the season. Clearly I'm not in the minority.
"That is so cringe"? What are you, 12?
Who do I support? I'm on a Manchester United forum. I'll give you 22 months to join the dots.
I didn't. I clarified my point later when Gio correctly pointed out that there were other players to blame for the goals too. I hadn't initially said this because a) I thought it went without saying and b) they weren't relevant to what the point was.
Yes, it's all a big conspiracy theory. You found me out. Clever boy. I love that you are so paranoid about this that you seemingly deliberately put the wrong age to try and trip me up like it's some kind of covert operation. Absolutely hilarious.
The truth is I googled it this morning when I replied to you because I had absolutely no idea when we let him go because I genuinely do not give a flying feck about it. I would've took you at your word on it but 18 sounded way too old as he'd have probably made some appearances for the first team if that had been the case. You're so far up Robertson's arse that it's seemingly inconceivable for you to believe that other people aren't quite as obsessed with him as you are.
What the feck are you on about now? Where did I say you're in the minority? Please show me.
Again, what the feck are you on about now? Where did I say Tierney is better than Robertson? You're just making stuff up now. Although, for the record, I do think he has the potential to be up there. He just plays in a vastly inferior team with a vastly inferior manager. Robertson has Klopp, Alisson, van Dijk, Thiago, Mane, Diaz and Salah. Tierney has Arteta, Ramsdale, Gabriel, Xhaka, Lacazette and Martinelli.
That's another snide dig you've made about me in relation to the Scottish national team as well. No idea where you're getting that from either.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm not sure Tierney being good enough and versatile enough to play in numerous positions across the backline is quite the damning 'gotcha' that you think it is. Nor is being captain an indicator of who the best player is. Unless you think Lloris is France's best player over Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann and co...
Ah yes, because everyone that posts on here supports Man Utd. You never see fans of Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Scottish or European clubs posting here. Nope. Never happens.
Just to get back on topic a little bit, tell me more about how the guy that assisted the winning goal in the CL final with a wonderful cross was "invisible".
Reminder: stay on topic
Incomparable
There is nothing very special about Marcelo, he has been good but not even close to being great
Roberto Carlos was on a different level entirely, phenomenal passing and shooting range, in addition to being more dominant
There is nothing very special about Marcelo, he has been good but not even close to being great
Roberto Carlos was on a different level entirely, phenomenal passing and shooting range, in addition to being more dominant