Marcelo Or Roberto Carlos
- Thread starter Trex
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I think Marcelo is the better footballer , but I do agree that Roberto Carlos is a more mystical footballer with more of an aura around him.
Marcelo was rather disappointing for Brazil as well.
Marcelo was rather disappointing for Brazil as well.
I have never thought of him as technically limited personally, and I didn't know of him being not thought of as special until around the same time as I heard about Rivaldo also not being seen as up to par or having his critics (which was just absurd to me), but this is purely a relative scale of Brazilians comparing amongst their own - a nation where you have to have godly technique to be regarded as making the same bar as your predecessors; a place where Ronaldinho has players gone before him with the same technical ability, so we're not talking about the norm here.
I don't know how he is perceived there now, with the dust having settled on his career plus Brazil's massive fall from the apex to just being a hopeful in the pack with other nations, but the Brazil being referred to were not only expectant of winning World Cups, they were expectant of rolling back the years and doing so beautifully, which again immediately draws parallels with godly fullbacks of their past, and even ones who didn't win the trophy but were heralded for their skill and individual brilliance (see Júnior in particular for this). As much as I rate R.Carlos, only a fool would believe he could be in that company on a technical level, and not because he had even average technique, rather someone like Júnior is easily in the running to be the most technically amazing fullback of all-time alongside the likes of Breitner, Dani Alves and the like who were basically good enough to be top class midfielders or wingers, which is simply not Roberto Carlos, where if you take away his absurd speed and shadow or overlapping runs, his offensive threat is almost wholly nulified.
This is as stupid as when Bayern chose Götze over Neymar because of one being german.
Marcelo for me. He grew a lot defensively, Carlos always had a brain fart in him defensively.
In terms of international performances, Marcelo was one of the worst players on the pitch during Mineirazo in 2014; Fred was the probably the worst and Marcelo wasn't far behind as he looked all over the place. I know it would be harsh to be place too much focus on that one match though. From memory, attacking-wise he was clearly Brazil's best performer during the defeat against Belgium in 2018 though he looked vulnerable defensively.
Didn't Mourinho prefer to start Coentrao over in big matches during his time in charge at Real? And Coentrao was the first choice starter under Ancelotti during the 2013/2014 CL winning run, though Marcelo of course came on as sub in the 2014 final and was very effective and pretty quickly improved their attacking threat. He certainly developed and improved over time, and was a joy to watch, and that interplay with Ronaldo on the left seemed telepathic !
Didn't Mourinho prefer to start Coentrao over in big matches during his time in charge at Real? And Coentrao was the first choice starter under Ancelotti during the 2013/2014 CL winning run, though Marcelo of course came on as sub in the 2014 final and was very effective and pretty quickly improved their attacking threat. He certainly developed and improved over time, and was a joy to watch, and that interplay with Ronaldo on the left seemed telepathic !
Da Silva was the best of the two! No question about it!
The nostalgia is wreaking havoc with you lot. Marcelo was so much better than Bobby Carlos.
I always looked at Carlos and thought doping. I don't know why, but he was an absolute freak of nature.
For that reason I choose Marcelo as I genuinely don't believe Carlos is real. But it's a pretty cynical and unfounded view
For that reason I choose Marcelo as I genuinely don't believe Carlos is real. But it's a pretty cynical and unfounded view
I'm taking Marcelo. Peak and longevity goes for him
A few comments about Marcelo having a longer peak. Is that right? Up until 2013 or so he was rotated with Coentrao quite often. And his last 40-game season was in 2018. Meanwhile, Carlos basically didn't miss a game for a decade at the Bernabeu, and was clearly already world-class at Palmeiras and when he joined Real.
Don't disagree with any of that. Marcelo for me probably the best dribbler for a full back of all time without question. All I am saying is if Marcelo was 6* skill on FIFA, Carlos was still amongst the best of all time for dribbling for a full back so like a 4.5*.
Not to mention his longevity for Brazil... 97-02 (5 year spell where he is the best international left back in the world).
Roberto Carlos was not a pace merchant: his dribbling was tricky, his passing ability was terrific, his crossing was nightmare fuel for defenders and keepers and his precise long throws made sure the opposition team could not afford to loose concentration for a minute.
Agree that his positioning was far from the best, but he had enough determination to never give up.
Agree that his positioning was far from the best, but he had enough determination to never give up.
Roberto Carlos every day of the week. If their Real Madrid legacies are similar, their Brazil legacies are miles apart.
Roberto Carlos: a final and a World Cup win with a pivotal role
Marcelo: Embarassed himself with a 7-1 shocker against Germany where himself and Luiz were the worst players on the pitch.
Roberto Carlos: a final and a World Cup win with a pivotal role
Marcelo: Embarassed himself with a 7-1 shocker against Germany where himself and Luiz were the worst players on the pitch.
Yes I believe that Carlos played more minutes for Real than Marcelo did, despite being at the club for 4 and a half years less (11 years compared to 15 and a half). As you said considering that he was already a big name player when Real signed him in 1996 (Capello was very keen to sign him) having been very successful with Palmeiras beforehand, I don't agree with comments that Marcelo has had better longevity.
I also disagree with comments that Marcelo had a more accomplished career, as Carlos's superior achievements with Brazil are more than enough to make up for and probably even surpass Marcelo's additional medals at club level IMO. Both players were first team starting regulars for Real during 3 Champions League winning campaigns as well.
Yes Carlos played in stronger Brazilian teams than Marcelo (noticeably attack-wise), but then again the Real squads that Marcelo has been part of had noticeably better depth than the ones that Carlos was part of. In 2011/2012 for example during the record breaking La Liga winning season, there were numerous comments about how deep Real's squad and subs bench was compared to the Galactico era.
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What is this comparison, Roberto Carlos of course, not even close.
I don’t think Marcelo had a better career, Carlos also won 4 La Ligas, 3 CLs, not as many as Marcelo but not far off and more important in as many of them but crucially he won a World Cup and 2 Copa Americas. Marcelo didn’t win either for Brazil. Carlos was also second in Ballon d’Or and World Player of the Year (different years), which Marcelo never got remotely close to.
Yeah, when i said he was technically limited i meant in comparison to most of the other elite Brazil fullbacks of the generations surrounding his( though tbh i don't think he stands out technically compared to various other countries elite fullbacks either). Technically simple would probably be a better choice of words though, as i didn't mean to suggest he wasn't a good striker of the ball, which calling him limited probably conjures up. He generated great power, had a good short passing game for overlaps and good crossing, though his shots were often inaccurate ( the free kick thing from le tournoi was misleading imo).
It's the heavy reliance on his great athleticism to make up for what seemed to me to be inconsistent decision making and vision that made me not a fan of him. i've just seen far too many games where he's sloppy/wasteful for lengthy spells, and often been getting away with it due to his insane recovery and pace, plus a wilingness to be dirty (and at a club where he'd get away with it more often than usual). so i'm not really even questioning his effectiveness too much, he'd be able to produce an assist or important moment defensively even in messy games, but he's just not my kind of player. Other posters have made great points that he was ideal in many ways for the box to box 90s/early 00s. and i agree with that.
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Roberto Carlos was the second best player in the world at one point. Only behind R9. Whether you agree he was or not, it still shows how highly he was thought of.
I kinda agree with most of what you are saying, especially if you are referring to Brazilians comparing among themselves, like how do you compare between Ronaldo & Ronaldinho, or Robinho & Denilson, Alex or Djalminha, and many others, and don't mention that 1982 Brazil side which was unreal, and yes, I get it that there were some FBs who were super skillful, I mean we've all watched Alves in 2010s, or someone like Junior in 1982, who I argue is a CM converted to LB, so of course, R.Carlos is not similar to these super silky and skillful players, and Marcelo is not there too but he is above R.Carlos, technique and skill wise.
I totally disagree with bolded part, If you take away R.Carlos' pace and athleticism, he would still have his ball delivery and shooting, which he excelled at, he would still be effective offensively to some extent and not wholly nullified, but he would be exposed defensively, which was the case in last 2 years with Madrid, as he lost a few yards and could not catch-up when chasing a ball sometimes.
And R.Carlos could have operated as a winger easily (he was LWB in WC 2002), either as an out and out winger from the left or an inverted winger, he had the pace and the ability on the ball to do so, same like Bale did, who was converted from LB to RW.
For the national team, it’s Roberto Carlos and it is not even close. Not because of accolades but performance wise Roberto Carlos had far better tournaments than Marcelo. Roberto Carlos also dominated the LB side for Brazil for about 10 years or so.
Both were wonderful attacking fullbacks. I do think Marcelo is slightly overall better than Roberto Carlos if I were to evaluate their game individually as far as passing, technique, dribbling, defending, etc.
Both were wonderful attacking fullbacks. I do think Marcelo is slightly overall better than Roberto Carlos if I were to evaluate their game individually as far as passing, technique, dribbling, defending, etc.
Roberto Carlos is in that group of magical players from my childhood that I struggle to compare with modern players because they have this almost mythical legendary status. Same for players like del piero, seedorf, cafu etc. It’s bizarre because I haven’t seen any of them play more than 20 matches.
I never had a problem with his game, personally. He blended his insane athleticism with a good enough game to not really draw my ire or think of him as pace merchant simpleton.
What he really excelled at is understanding where to go, when to go and how best to create as big a problem as possible on either the overlap, or his timed breaks from the simple construct; he destroyed so many teams like this and could barely be catered for, because to match him, most flankers had to have both a headstart and high levels of preemption, which is not commonly executed if someone like R
Carlos is timely and opportunistic.
He's definitely not part of the common mould, though, and for that reason probably looked down upon when compared to classical fullbacks who don't have go to attributes or the luxury of exploiting such absurd levels of athleticism.
I am at pains to state I like Roberto Carlos and had no issue with his game, but if you are going to break players down to minutiae or really compare them to peers or others in their tier (which for R.Carlos is the elite) objective scrutiny tells you he didn't have what those players had, but instead was replete with attributes and a game that was ridiculously hard to contain or cater for.
Let me put it this way: Roberto Carlos could not play classic jogo bonito with the guys I'm talking about without looking like the loose end. Does it matter in terms of effectiveness in real life? Absolutely not, but in a direct compare and contrast, it has him come up short on a technical level.
I think you will see who was really better in years to come. Carlos is still picked in pretty much any all time B team, kept off the top only by the existence of Paolo Maldini. In decades to come he will still be there in these lists and teams. Marcelo makes nobody's all time list now, nor will he in the future.
As a left footed player (LW/LB) in my previous days, I always admired Maldini, but Roberto Carlos did things Paolo could never do. I give the slight edge to RC, although the Marcelo voters have a great case!
I'm guessing the divide might come down to the birth date of the posters in here. Anyone born before 1980 probably prefers Roberto Carlos. Anyone afterwards leans towards the younger Marcelo?
I'm guessing the divide might come down to the birth date of the posters in here. Anyone born before 1980 probably prefers Roberto Carlos. Anyone afterwards leans towards the younger Marcelo?
Carlos was the better athletic. At his peak he was like Speedy Gonzales with a canon left foot. Even his long throws were absolute belters. Just look at the Raul goal against Leverkusen. He pinged the ball from the half way line like it was a through pass.
But I'd give it to Marcelo because of how incredible he was on the attacking front. Whenever Real needed a goal, they usually pour attacks down the left and you'd get the feeling that this guy will come up big for them and create something.
But I'd give it to Marcelo because of how incredible he was on the attacking front. Whenever Real needed a goal, they usually pour attacks down the left and you'd get the feeling that this guy will come up big for them and create something.
Seems like a lot people here are either too young to have watched Roberto Carlos properly or have a memory deficiency. He was an exceptionally talented player. That being said I can’t pick between the two as both players were sensational with attributes not many could many match.
This is basically the left back version of the zanetti vs cafu debate. Both all time greats. Personally i like Carlos a bit more but can see the argument for both,
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For me Marcelo is clearly better.
Roberto Carlos is overrated imo. Great athlete and had a hammer for a left foot but Marcelo is a vastly superior footballer.
Roberto Carlos is overrated imo. Great athlete and had a hammer for a left foot but Marcelo is a vastly superior footballer.
Yikes that's big talk for someone who was invisible in the final. He only got an assist because Trent lost his man.
Look where Robertson is when the move begins and when Valverde gets the ball
Wildly out of position doesn't even begin to cover it. Not to mention his leisurely little jog back.Although being invisible probably explains why Robertson was nowhere near him for the goal.
Big talk from the guy who got the assist for the goal?
Look where Robertson is when the move begins and when Valverde gets the ball
Although being invisible probably explains why Robertson was nowhere near him for the goal.
Actually, looking at it, Fabinho could have done more.
Celtic fan?
Still bitter because you released a £50m European Cup Winning and EPL winning defender because he was "too small".
Christ, thank got Jimmy Johstone wasn't a modern day player for celtic.