Jesus Christ how our standards have dropped. Your justification for picking a very midtable player is that he is indeed a very midtable player and that’s better than where we are right now?
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 21
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 5
Sorry, but when your argument is "midtable player", I'm not sure this conversation is worth continuing, but I'll give it a go.
Berge would've:
-Cost £20m instead of £40m
-Been given lower wages, or at worst the same wages as Ugarte, but likely lower tbh.
-Been phased out of the starting XI much easier due to the less money involved plus his prior status in football before signing him
-Complemented every single central midfielder we currently have way better than Ugarte does
-Complemented every single future midfield signing way better than Ugarte does
What's the argument for Ugarte being a better player or better fit when comparing the two players?
Ugarte has very good passing stats for a DM. Check them out
Because he keeps it safe almost always. His passing range is nowhere near what it should be, though. Eriksen is the only CM we have with the required passing range, but he's leaving and too old anyways.
Now, if we could get Adam Wharton, it solves that problem, however: it's likely that most English big clubs will be interested in him, and he will cost a lot of money too. And even if we get him in, Ugarte isn't the best midfield partner for him, and there are questions about Mainoo as his partner too. Berge/Onana/Palhinha etc. would've been better for him too.
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I personally never expect a player to do something he was never meant to do in his entire life. However what you said was completely unfair. "can't pass" with above +90% passing accuracy is crazy work to me.
If there is a rare player in Utd doing his job, it's him
So fecking true.
The mentality of some United fans, I swear to God. Ugarte is one of the precious few players out there looking like someone that actually could belong in a United team, and he stands out positively even when we lose. "Yes, but in the extremely unlikely scenario we are challenging for the CL in 2029, he won't be good enough". Unbelievable.
I know right
It's beyond idiotic. Criticizing for the sake of criticizing
Sander Berge has passing stats fairly similar to Ugarte, a player "who can't pass"
I'm not expecting Ugarte to outgrow his profile either. Players aren't able to do that. In the same way, I don't expect Maguire to suddenly become a pacey channel defender, or Rashford to be able to play in small spaces between the lines, or Martínez to start dominating in the air.
What I'm saying is that a different type of midfielder should've been prioritized instead, both for now and for the future.
I know right
Keep ignoring the clear issues that aren't solvable then, just because the player has done well in his last 5 games and you want him to be a success
The exact same behavior as when this fanbase convinced themselves that Martínez was one of the best defenders in the world and can be a starter CB in an elite team
It's not about wanting to success. It's just simply facts. He could play badly for the rest of the season and I would have no problem saying it.Keep ignoring the clear issues that aren't solvable then, just because the player has done well in his last 5 games and you want him to be a success
The exact same behavior as when this fanbase convinced themselves that Martínez was one of the best defenders in the world and can be a starter CB in an elite team
You're clutching at straws bro.
His deficiencies that stop him from becoming a truly elite level player in his position are clear already, and he cannot do anything to change it. It was probably already clear when he was at Famalicao.
And it's not just about that he won't be good enough to start for us when we are serious contenders for major trophies. He already shouldn't be good enough to start for us if we aim for the top 4. But he is, because he's our only DM basically. But the choice to sign better DMs was there in the summer, we just ignored them.
Doesn't matter.
If we are serious contenders, that ain't happening for at the very least 6-7 years so that means he is the right type of players for now. There weren't many better DMs available.
So what's your prescription then? Get rid of Ugarte, because he's not good enough for some hypothetical situation we won't reach in the next half decade?Keep ignoring the clear issues that aren't solvable then, just because the player has done well in his last 5 games and you want him to be a success
The exact same behavior as when this fanbase convinced themselves that Martínez was one of the best defenders in the world and can be a starter CB in an elite team
My view on Ugarte is, that he could be a very important squad player for this rebuild that will hopefully happen over the coming seasons. I would be shocked if the team improved so much that he would suddenly be seen as a limitation rather than an asset. Given his age and what we have seen so far, I'd go so far as to say he is one of the very last players I would want to lose from this squad. And yes, that is based on his 20 or so appearances this season - it's what we have. I reserve my right to change opinion on a player after more evidence is presented.
Thats not Ugartes job though. Yes we absolutely need a younger version of Eriksen to partner with Ugarte. But Ugarte is doing exactly what we need from him. Keeping it save and closing down opposition passing lines. Our midfield turns in to an open highway as soon as he goes off.
The idea that he isn't good enough for a top 4 side is nonsense, easily dismissed just by looking at some of the midfielders who have been starters for sides that made the top four over recent years. The standard isn't that high.
The standard for actually winning titles is a lot higher, and it may well be that by the time we reach that point he is out of the team. But that point is years away and he'll still be good enough to be a squad player at that point anyway.
And we bought him at a price point where the starter-to-squad-player trajectory is fine. He isn't a Rice, Caicedo or Enzo bought at a price point where they need to be outstanding players in the long term to justify it. He cost half of what they did.
The standard for actually winning titles is a lot higher, and it may well be that by the time we reach that point he is out of the team. But that point is years away and he'll still be good enough to be a squad player at that point anyway.
And we bought him at a price point where the starter-to-squad-player trajectory is fine. He isn't a Rice, Caicedo or Enzo bought at a price point where they need to be outstanding players in the long term to justify it. He cost half of what they did.
In this midfield you need legs. Ugarte gets around a lot. But I agree he needs a passer next to him.
Berge is a good player mind you.
Exactly. It doesn’t matter. Ugarte is one of the last players we need to be worrying ourselves with currently.
I disagree he’s not good enough for a top 4 side too but that’s another story.
Good signing.
Agree with this. I mean is he much worse on the ball than Jordan Henderson or Wijnaldum?
Ugarte has been fantastic, no doubt about it, but as I said, his strengths lie in his off-the-ball contributions—his energy, tackling, and ability to intercept play are exceptional and stand out every time you watch him. However, what doesn’t stand out is his ability to break teams down with his passing or creativity, which is fine because that’s not his primary role.
That’s exactly why I suggested pairing him with a player who complements his skill set. This isn’t a criticism of Ugarte but an acknowledgment of his limitations on the ball. In the current setup, Mainoo has been tasked with the playmaking responsibilities, and while he has potential, he’s clearly struggling in that role right now. That’s a critique of Mainoo’s performance, not Ugarte’s.
To be clear, Ugarte excels in what he does best, but whether you like it or not, his on-the-ball capabilities are limited, which is why finding the right partner for him is essential.
He was our best player against Wolves and shouldn't have been taken off, some of these comments are weird. Him and Casemiro should be our starting midfield pair and Mainoo should be dropped.
Amorim clearly doesn’t view Casemiro as an option for the No. 8 role—it’s either Eriksen, Bruno, or Mainoo who gets the nod in that position. Looking ahead to the rest of the season, I’d lean toward playing Bruno there.
Bruno has the creativity and vision to unlock teams. Moreover, he’s one of the few players in the squad capable of effectively switching play, a skill that is vital in Amorim’s system to maintain width and exploit spaces quickly.
He'll be 33 in ten years. Move him on.
Oh, got it, you are the sort that has a tantrum when X doesn't get signed and will keep going back to it over and over.
Frankly, I've had enough of that.
At least one player that is likeable, gmfights for the team and plays very well
Berge does have a better passing range, meanwhile he's not as good a ball winner. Half as many tackles per 90. Thats what we bought. Ugarte's partner is the one who needs a big passing range. Kante and Makelele kept it short and simple most of the time too. You cant expect 1 single DM to do everything.
He's one of the few decent transfers we've made in the last couple of years, value for money and input on the pitch.
You have a short term memory. When players like the Nevilles, O’Shea etc played key roles in United winning things.
I disagree.
First of all, I don't think we should be prioritizing Ugarte and looking for his ideal partner in midfield. It should be Mainoo we're doing that for.
Secondly, Ugarte committing to too many duels is a problem in itself, like I mentioned previously.
Finally, I love how the ability to cover big spaces is being looked over in every reply I receive in this thread. Ugarte will never be a big spaces player. That alone means he shouldn't be thought of as one of the players we are building the team around. Mainoo isn't that player either. Whoever we get as our next number 8 signing, likely won't be that player either. So if our starting #6 cannot do it either, then the only way to avoid getting hit on opposition transitions is to set up against everyone the same way we set up against Arsenal and City. Even against the likes of Southampton or Wolves.
Well, I don't think Gary Neville was an average player at all.
Also, do you realize I wanted Sander Berge instead of Ugarte, who fits the bill of a water carrier much more than the Uruguayan does, based on what his price would've been, their careers so far, and fan perception as well?
You don't need to tell me we can't have a squad of 25 world class players and that players like O'Shea, Park, Welbeck, etc. can be very important for a world class squad. I'm usually the one telling this to others.
Regarding Ugarte, my point is more about the financial outlay, and how we complicated the midfield rebuild with his signing.
You can find players on the market on the cheap, that can't have a long term key role, but can still raise the physical levels of the squad and cover big spaces quickly, if needed. Berge might be the best example of this, from all the players that changed clubs this summer. He would've been a starter for us for 1 season. 2 at most. But he possesses some crucial traits that Ugarte doesn't, and would've been easier to phase out of the XI too.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Ugarte is in so many "duels" because he's trying to stop attacks before the defence has to clear the ball or a shot comes in. The work is there to do. With other players teams would be walking past our midfield even more and we'd be conceding more shots. It was 17.6 last season (at one point it was 20), its 10.8 this season - a vast improvement.
Fulham have 11.9 shots on average against them with Berge and it was 13.8 last season, so its an improvement but nowhere near the level we've improved.
Mainoo since he came back from injury isnt playing well enough to be the starter and someone we conduct all transfer business around. Ugarte and Casemiro have played better in recent times and deserve to continue to play.
Back for Liverpool?
Yes, him Casemiro & Mainoo in the middle of the pitch, feck creativity, just stop the vermin from scoring.