I agree in general, two different types of goalkeeper, but I also like to think of Neuer as a shotstopper and a "keeper sweeper". One doesn't necessarily exclude the other.
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Manuel Neuer
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I agree in general, two different types of goalkeeper, but I also like to think of Neuer as a shotstopper and a "keeper sweeper". One doesn't necessarily exclude the other.
Still a long way to go to reach their level. Let's see
If we only look at skillset/ability, he's already up there with both of them in my opinion, probably even better. He needs a pretty much flawless peak for at least 3-4 years to match them though. He was on a good way in the past 2 years until his horrorshow in the last months of this season, now he has to start all over again. Exceptional performances at the World Cup is definitely a good start though.
Neuer is much better than Kahn ever was. Kahn must be one of the most overrated keepers of all time. Neuer is a star.
What a joke that statement is. I love Neuer, but Kahn won his team a CL by saving 3 pens in a CL final, almost won another CL in 99, and was the only keeper to ever get the best player of the world cup award by basically singlehandedly getting Germany to the final. An absolute legend for club and country, he had incredible reflexes and was feared by his opponents for his mentality and presence.
Kahn is one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time, Neuer has a long way to go before he can be compared to him.
Yeah, he certainly had the necessary bite
. Yes, Kahn was in some way batshit crazy, but arguably the best goal keeper this country ever had. Neuer might actually be the most gifted German keeper in history, but just as Balu said would need to show brutal consistency over multiple seasons to reach the standing of the titan.Neuer is a brilliant goalkeeper and one of my favourite players but he is no Kahn. Oliver Kahn is the best goalkeeper in my lifetime, closely followed by Big Pete! Buffon ia 3rd.
Yeah, he certainly had the necessary bite
The best keeper Germany had was Sepp Maier... And the funniest...
No, he was massively overrated.
Bizarre that you can really think that. Buffon, Schmeichel, and a number of others have been WAY better than Kahn, who was just a decent keeper with a massive ego.
Kahn at his peak is still comfortably the best GK I've seen play. Neuer's got the complete skillset, but Kahn's greatest strengths were his ability to stop even the most "unsaveable" shots - something that Neuer showed against United, but hasn't replicated since on a regular basis - and the huge fear-factor. He had this kind of "try as you want, I'll eat everything you can throw at me, burp, and leave you in tears" aura about him.
What's bizarre is that you think that Kahn, one of the best goalkeepers ever, was just a decent keeper with a massive ego. You make it sound as if he's Joe Hart.
I think Neuer still has a way to go to be called a better keeper than Kahn at his peak.
Mind you, I'd take Buffon or Schmeicel at their very best over either of them. Pat Jennings too.
To be fair, the death of the back-pass has kind of changed the goalkeeping landscape. I wonder how big Pete or Jennings would have coped if they'd been expected to use their feet as often as modern keepers do.
Mind you, I'd take Buffon or Schmeicel at their very best over either of them. Pat Jennings too.
To be fair, the death of the back-pass has kind of changed the goalkeeping landscape. I wonder how big Pete or Jennings would have coped if they'd been expected to use their feet as often as modern keepers do.
Don't think Schmeichel or Buffon ever had as big an impact in their club sides as Kahn had from 98 - 01 at Bayern and that team more often than not beat the other two top teams in Europe, Real and United, during those years and made it to 2 CL finals and 1 semifinal winning one title with of course Kahn being the hero in the penalty shootout. Kahn finished in the top 3 of the Ballon d'Or twice during those years. I doubt you find another team excelling in European competitions like that Bayern side did with the standout player in the team being the goalkeeper and not an attacker or midfielder. Kahn was invincible during his peak for around 4-5 years (and of course an incredible goalkeeper before and after those years as well) and that peak was as good as any other goalkeeper I remember. Personally I rate Buffon higher if we look at the past 25 years, mainly because I prefer his style of keeping over Schmeichel and Kahn. Casillas, van der Sar or whoever else you want to pick from the past 25 years never reached the same heights those three did. The idea that 'Buffon, Schmeichel and a number of others have been WAY better than Kahn' like you wrote above is really silly in my opinion. If that was remotely true, he wouldn't have had the career we witnessed. Small margins, whatever way you look at it.
If we go further back into the 80's and 70's, it gets really difficult to compare. I'd say Zoff, Maier and Jennings stand above everyone else in those decades, but it's impossible for me to pick a favourite between them and the modern ones.
However, I think that Kahn's performances for Germany are a bit overrated. He's not really a legend for Germany in my book, even though it's not really his fault. He had to wait his turn for too long with Vogts prefering Köpke in '96 and '98 despite Kahn already being the clearly better keeper and then Klinsmann took away his last chapter for Germany by taking the captaincy away from him and picking Lehmann over him in '06, so in the end Kahn only played 3 tournaments. The less said about the German nationalteam at the Euro '00 and '04 the better and despite his outstanding performances up until the final in '02, he kinda fecked up in that last game. Unlikely that we would have won it, but still it matters.
I wrote the following a while ago when asked who I'd choose between Maier and Kahn:
Neuer has a long way to go to surpass both of them for the title of best German keeper of all time or best Bayern keeper of all time.
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Kahn was top class but Schmeichel and Buffon were better.
Neuer might end up better than Kahn but he still has some weaknesses to his game imo. The sweeper keeper is fine for Germany but its caught him out at club level on numerous occasions. I remember Gibson scoring against him in OT where he was piss poor. I do admire his dominance of the box, hes more commanding than De Gea at the moment but has weaker distribution imo.
Neuer might end up better than Kahn but he still has some weaknesses to his game imo. The sweeper keeper is fine for Germany but its caught him out at club level on numerous occasions. I remember Gibson scoring against him in OT where he was piss poor. I do admire his dominance of the box, hes more commanding than De Gea at the moment but has weaker distribution imo.
Neuer is great but a long way away from Kahn's level
Buffon IMO was definitely better, and I would also agree that Schmeichel was better too. However, all three of them have been near the same level IMO, so I don't think that either of them was WAY better than the other two.
Then on the next tier I would put keepers like VDS, Casillas and Cech. Neuer is almost on these second level of keepers IMO, with a chance of reaching (or even surprassing) the first tier of keepers.
I watched Kahn quite a bit. Good shot stopper, but not a keeper who was really that hard to beat - partly a size issue and towards the end he really wasn't that good any more - maybe that has coloured my judgement on the rest of his career but I saw him as one of those players who got massively overrated due to spectacular saves rather than high class goalkeeping of the kind that Schmeichel, Buffon etc. exhibited. I see Casillas in a very similar light.
Neuer needs to become one of the most important Bayern players if he wants to compete with the greatest goalkeepers of all time. Currently Bayern and Germany will be dominating with or without him in the team, it won't be noticed very much whether he got replaced or not. If Neuer misses an important CL leg it isn't like Messi/Ronaldo does it or just a key player for certain teams. He isn't irreplaceable by any means yet even if he is the best keeper in the world.
Neuer is improving in this regard and if he continues developing his sweeper keeper abilities and uses them more often and in the biggest matches then he will probably start competing for the title as one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time. It isn't necessarily about him needing to become better at any skill, it is just that he has to reach the mental state that all the best ever goalkeepers reached of complete confidence.
As for now he doesn't fully dominate games with his sweeper keeper abilities, in fact he can go several games without using those traits at all unless the situations appears to him. That is the big difference though, an all time legend would find a way to create situations to use his sweeper keeper traits much more often.
Neuer is improving in this regard and if he continues developing his sweeper keeper abilities and uses them more often and in the biggest matches then he will probably start competing for the title as one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time. It isn't necessarily about him needing to become better at any skill, it is just that he has to reach the mental state that all the best ever goalkeepers reached of complete confidence.
As for now he doesn't fully dominate games with his sweeper keeper abilities, in fact he can go several games without using those traits at all unless the situations appears to him. That is the big difference though, an all time legend would find a way to create situations to use his sweeper keeper traits much more often.
that doesnt make too much sense. Outfield players are always be more important than goalkeepers. Neuer is incredibly important for bayern and its a massive blow if he is missing, but comparing him to Messi or Ronaldo is complete nonsense. No goalkeeper, that played for a top club, was ever more influential as those two. Kahn definitely wasnt.
Kahn also never "dominated" games. He wasnt a sweeper keeper at all and far less involved in most matches. Neuer gets a lot of stick for being too reckless and you are now telling me, that he should go out more often? That mental. You clearly didnt watch him on a regular basis.
Neuer also doesnt need more confidence. He has already proven that he has very big balls. He took a pen in a CL final, while usually never taking them. Thats mental. If you want to criticise him regarding his confidence it should be the other way around: Sometimes he is overconfident and tries too much instead of playing it save.
The only thing that Neuer needs is a bit more serenity/composure and slightly more consistency.
If he continues to perform on his current level and also wins more titles, he´ll go down as one of the best GKs ever.
Mate, I love you and you know I value you your opinion, but that post is one huge clusterfeck. I don't think anything in it makes sense at all
.He's no Neville Southall like.
Wasn't implying that Kahn was a sweeper keeper but if you look at a goalkeeper like Schmeichel he influenced the entire team to play at different heights when he was our goalkeeper and the years after he went goes down as equal to when Keane left us and we had to try and replace him which never worked. Schmeichel has the greatest clean sheet record in Premier League as well with 42% of the games he played ending in him not conceding. Schmeichel not only had the skill-set of a great goalkeeper but he constantly shouted at the defenders to keep them organized in the correct way using the great advantage goalkeepers has of seeing the entire field in his point of view.
He was our captain at times when Keane was out and I think this is traits we've seen from many of the best goalkeepers.
Neuer has all the skill-sets of a goalkeeper at Schmeichels level, but the ruthless and completely dominant mentality is something he lacks. This is something that really sets the legendary goalkeepers apart from the equally skilled ones in the tier below in my eyes.
If Neuer adds this level of confidence I believe he will find opportunities to use the skill-set he has more often. He has a good level of confidence already, so he may certainly take that next step as he is developing still.
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Eh? The back pass rule came in in 1992. Almost the whole of Schmeichel's United career was when goalkeepers had to use their feet.
fecking hell. That's mad. The decades are getting more and more compressed in my head. Not a good sign.
You're old, Pogue. It happens.
You should check out the other thread I'm posting in, discussing the ideal age for a man of my age to sleep with teenagers. Oh yes. Mid-life crisis here I come.
He's going to go down as the greatest IMO, Germany winning the WC won't do any harm in that either.
One really good save today.
Great composure and decision making there.
DDG is good but he lacks the physical advantages that Neuer has. What a keeper.
Neuer remind me of schmeichel but he s much better with the ball at his feet. Worlds best atm
Yep, agree with this. If I had to choose one to save a 30 yard screamer that was destined for the top corner, I'd go for De Gea but in most other scenarios Neuer has him beat.
DDG will be the better of the two when he's older, he isn't that far off now and as soon as he has experience of marshalling a defence, he'll be the best in the world.
Neuer's doing that for years. He's excellent at organising a defense and constantly talks to his centerbacks. His teams had the best defensive record in the league in 5 out of the last 6 seasons (2 out of 3 times for Schalke and now 3 consecutive seasons with Bayern, even when Dortmund won the league with a new points record and Hummels & Subotic in top form, Bayern with Neuer conceded less goals) and it's not like he constantly had worldclass defenders in the team. He already holds the club record at Bayern for longest period without conceding in competitive games. Pretty much since his first day at Bayern, he was an important player in the dressing room. His influence on others is huge and the board already talked about finding a job for him at the club after he retired. I mean, talking about his mentality and confidence, the guy took a penalty in a CL final when so many of his teammates were too afraid to step forward.
Man Utd was top 3 in the world and in a CL semis when he was 24. SOME way to go.
I cant describe how proud I am, for all of them. Best keeper in the world by a MILE!
@Balu ; Cant see your months of bad keeping. He had 4 goals against Real but the whole team had a shit day there. He had a great season overall and is the best keeper on this planet.
Get the cup Man Utd and become the next great keeper!!!
Great GK. Best in the world at this time, no doubt. Looked like he wanted to strangle somebody after they conceded, even at 7-1.
Neuer's been the best in the world for at least 2 years now. Was obvious what he'd go onto achieve before he made his move to Bayern and was pretty gutted we never really had a chance in signing him.
De Gea's brilliant and probably in the top 5 in the World but @Manucho the boss was bang on when he said Neuer has a natural advantage over De Gea due to his physique.
De Gea's brilliant and probably in the top 5 in the World but @Manucho the boss was bang on when he said Neuer has a natural advantage over De Gea due to his physique.
I think Neuer is one of the best keepers I've ever seen to be honest.
Crazy that no one rates Van der Sar, thought he was a beast in his late years, also with that record. Neuer is by far the best GK, crazy people rate Courtois higher.