De Gea's never been a keeper who plays with the ball at his feet a lot. If you want to argue that's a tactical decision every game then go for it, but it's really unfounded to say he's a better ball player than Neuer when he literally never shows that in any games for us.
Manuel Neuer
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De Gea's never been a keeper who plays with the ball at his feet a lot. If you want to argue that's a tactical decision every game then go for it, but it's really unfounded to say he's a better ball player than Neuer when he literally never shows that in any games for us.
De Gea's distribution is one of his strong points. And many times he uses his feet for distribution. How can that not be considered to be his strength then?
So people are just arguing that he's better/as good on the basis of blind guessing than he would be as good if he played for Bayern? Even though there's no evidence to suggest that.
Basically this.
No he really didn't. Rooney and Welbeck constantly ran at him to put pressure on and he often laid the ball wide to have time and then found his teammates.
Fair enough, of course it's important that his teammates are available for passes. But the way he finds them constantly despite being under pressure is exceptional and there's really no proof at all that de Gea could do the same.
I'm not sure stats are very useful in this debate, I think the style of play of a team has more to do with it. I don't think Neuer would be doing better than De Gea (stats wise) in this Utd team, and Pep's teams are great for a GK to rack up passes and completion percentages. In any case, both great GKs and good with their feet. Whether you think one is better than the other is more due to preference and watching them on a regular basis, I guess.
This is not blind guessing. It's common sense. If you have options to pass it short, and the team is set up like that, he will do it. So, do you think Ferdinand cannot play short passes? 'cause he mostly pings it long. That is mainly because our midfield does not give him an option. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Come on Balu, I am not saying he is poor. Just that he is not a "cut-above" De Gea in that respect. He is a top class keeper with good distribution. Much like how De Gea is.
I'm not saying de Gea is bad on the ball, btw. He's actually really great, his distribution for his age is brilliant. I'm sure he will develop it even more and he showed great passing for the youth nationalteams and at Atletico. Still believe at the moment, there's a significant gap between him and Neuer.
I'm sorry but this really makes me doubt whether you watch our games. His distribution is one of his strong points, and he shows it on a very regular basis. As for footwork in the strictest sense of the term (not clearances, just having the ball at his feet), he's also very good, technically he's great. Some posters even laughingly suggest he should play in midfield now and again!
Also, loved this:
I'm sorry but this really makes me doubt whether you watch our games. His distribution is one of his strong points, and he shows it on a very regular basis. As for footwork in the strictest sense of the term (not clearances, just having the ball at his feet), he's also very good, technically he's great. Some posters even laughingly suggest he should play in midfield now and again!
Also, loved this:
Haha, was just looking for that clip! Not the only time he's outsmarted a forward with his skills either!
Personally I feel, in terms of long passes, there is not much to choose between Neuer and De Gea. But we can agree to disagree.
I think Neuer is really exceptional and clearly above everyone else at the moment. I don't think I've seen a keeper that talented on the ball since Chilavert. I really rate de Gea a lot, he's a stand out talent and imo the only one who can rival Neuer for the best goal keeper of this decade (unless another exceptional talent appears soon). But he's right now, where Neuer was 4-5 years ago. Exceptional shotstopper with great distribution. Give him time to reach the next level, he's only 23 after all.
Yeah, but there's so much more than long balls when it comes to passing and that's exactly the point, especially when you try to play through pressing and not just hoof it forward and hope for the best.
This season Neuer has the 2nd best distribution stats in Europe (top 5 leagues) with 91%, where as De Gea is 99th with 63%.
I accept the idea that tiki taka pads your stats a lot for this so let's compare last season where Bayern were very direct. Neuer has a distribution stat of 79% (4th best in Europe) compared with De Gea's even lower than this season 61% (69th best in Europe), in a season where both players were in league title winning sides.
So yeah, tell me again how De Gea isn't any worse on the ball and in his distribution than Neuer is.
It isn't though, as those stats for both this and last season prove. He's very middle of the road across Europe when it comes to distribution. One cruyff turn doesn't outweigh the stats across two entire seasons.
Stats don't really mean anything in this case because they are out of context of the situations they are playing in. You'd have to look at every single clearance made and how much pressure each keeper is under, what the passing options are, how well their team-mates are being pressed, how many headers their team-mates can win etc etc etc.
That was a tongue-in-cheek comment. The entire idea of Neuer having better passing numbers -- not just short passes, but long ones too -- solely being based on having his teammates moving to make passing options is hilarious.
United were playing with two forwards often pressing forwards, marking Martínez and Boateng to stop the simple pass. Instead Neuer regularly played it out wide -- even when sweeping up -- as United were playing more compact to stop the flow through the middle. De Gea on the other hand had several defenders in front of him playing extremely deep, yet he never made a single short pass. All of them were long hoofs.
It's ludicrous to say that De Gea's defenders never gave him an option to play it short. Utterly absurd
To be fair, there really comes the team's style into play. If you look at de Gea's stats for the youth nationalteams, you instantly see that he's capable of better accuracy. He's clearly one of the top keepers in the world when it comes to distribution.
Over the course of an entire season they mean plenty. Especially when there's a massive difference like there is in this case. It's not like Bayern are a side who are good in the air.
Even I didn't get it
. Was utterly confused by your comment.Do you have any stats for his games for Spain's youth sides?
He passes it to Vidic or Rio, they immediately get put under pressure making passing to them a bad option. Neuer is being put under pressure but the players he can pass to aren't at all. That's an important difference I think you are failing to take into account.
Even across the whole season they say more about the team he's playing with and the tactics being used than the keeper's ability to distribute the ball accurately.
To be honest I think De Gea's distribution while very good is over-rated on here so I'm not firmly on his side of this particular argument, especially when I don't see Neuer play often but I don't agree with how you are backing up your point.
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/79554/History/David-de-Gea
There are 5 games included. He plays significantly more passes with less longballs and a way higher passing accuracy and it backs up what I remember about him in the games for the youth nationalteams I've seen.
His passing stats playing tiki taka are still nowhere near Neuer's when he's playing tiki taka.
But he didn't pass it once to Vidic or Ferdinand, not a single short ball to either of them. Nothing to Jones on the right, only 1 pass to Buttner according to UEFA; De Gea's favoured targets were Fellaini and Valencia. Are you going to tell me that even with United's defenders playing very deep, there was not a single opportunity to play a short ball to any of those defenders?
It's not even about the system, either. United are rarely, if ever starved of possession as much as they were yesterday. De Gea made more hoofs than he regularly does. But it doesn't excuse him. 72% of his passes in the Champions League this season have been long.
Yeah, that wasn't really the point. You've called him middle of the road across Europe in terms of distribution, which is just wrong, imo. He's easily top ten, actually, I can't think of anyone who's clearly above him with the exception of Neuer at the moment.
Does that not suggest to you that he was instructed to not pass it short? There would be no point - we weren't looking to develop play gradually from the back as we didn't have the players to do it against Bayern. Rio and Vidic both hoof it (or lose it) when put under pressure by Bayern (which Bayern are effective at) and their hoofing is less accurate than De Gea's.
Try any of the 56 goalkeepers with better distribution stats than him across the Spanish, English, German, French and Italian leagues. They aren't all playing for Bayern Munich, there loads of keepers there I've never even heard of. It's mental to call him top ten for distribution, absolutely no basis at all in fact.
If you want to have a goalkeeper statsfest I'd suggest including ter Stegen, because iirc he has even more touches per game than Neuer.
He scores really highly as well, not surprising that Barcelona are so determined to get him in that case.
It's funny how the discussion turned from Neuer is bad with the ball at his feet to de Gea's distribution isn't that good, when clearly neither is true .
.It's funny how the discussion turned from Neuer is bad with the ball at his feet to de Gea's distribution isn't that good, when clearly neither is true
It's impossible to talk about a player without comparing them to another player even if the comparison is effectively apples vs oranges!
It's just such a weird argument. Neuer when he was at Schalke in 2010-11 played less successful long balls than he does with Guardiola's "tiki-taka". Yet he still managed to complete the majority of them.
Hell, at Schalke -- a team that finished 14th in the Bundesliga -- he played on average 19 passes per match with a 68% accuracy. De Gea on the other hand at United plays 16 passes per match, with an astounding 56% accuracy. It's no surprise that Neuer was way, way more accurate with his long passes either. He probably relished playing alongside the likes of Raúl, Jurado, Rakitic, Farfán, Kluge, and Huntelaar.
It's not really the system, is it? Maybe one goalkeeper could be more consistent with his distribution?
It's just such a weird argument. Neuer when he was at Schalke in 2010-11 played less successful long balls than he does with Guardiola's "tiki-taka". Yet he still managed to complete the majority of them.
Hell, at Schalke -- a team that finished 14th in the Bundesliga -- he played on average 19 passes per match with a 68% accuracy. De Gea on the other hand at United plays 16 passes per match, with an astounding 56% accuracy. It's no surprise that Neuer was way, way more accurate with his long passes either. He probably relished playing alongside the likes of Raúl, Jurado, Rakitic, Farfán, Kluge, and Huntelaar.
It's not really the system, is it? Maybe one goalkeeper could be more consistent with his distribution?
Unfortunately most people in the thread don't seem to understand statistics and just keep stating the same opinions over and over and over as though they'll eventually be right, and De Gea will be top ten for distribution when at no point has he even come close to it statistically.
Sorry mate but you've demonstrated in this thread that you know nothing about statistics aside from "that there number be larger than that other one so it must be better deeeerrrr". Regardless of whether or not Neuer is actually better at distribution than De Gea, the way you are putting the argument across is stupid so don't start acting like some higher intelligence that truly understands statistics while us plebs just can't get a handle on the fact that 10 > 9. If you had a clue about statistics you'd caveat every point you make but you haven't done, you've just looked for numbers that on the face of things look to support your argument.
So you think Sassuolo, Mainz, Milan, Nurnberg, Toulouse, Torino, Bastia, Hoffenheim, Augsberg, Hannover, Frankfurt, Sampdoria, Vallodolid, Lille, Nice, Hamburg and loads of other clubs play from the back and encourage better possession than we do? Because their keepers and a load of other keepers at rubbish sides are better at retaining possession than De Gea.
Bloody Begovic at Stoke is better at finding his man than De Gea, are Stoke a side who build from the back as well?
I'm not going down this path with you my friend, my point is that you can't make any real judgement based on a few numbers in this situation.
I do think that De Gea is good at distributing the ball, but there is no chance that he is better than Neuer at it. His kicking reminds me a lot of how good Reina used to be at it, even if he never had the super high passing rates that Neuer does now. And that's not even factoring in these...
But random opinions with no basis in fact will do just fine?
Which are you referring to exactly?