Manchester United's Chief Scout and Head of Global Scouting have left the club

L1nk said:
The report seems to say Jim Lawlor stepped down himself, but doesn't say that about Marcel Bout who was potentially let go based on that
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Both of them have been in their positions for years. I wonder why it's taken so long for someone to question their judgement?
What's happening on the pitch is shite but I'm liking what's going on behind there scenes, whoever is calling the shots now is certainly making their mark.
 
Lawlor under Sir Alex clearly worked.

I can imagine the role of a head scout needing more frequent refreshment at a big club - he's been around for a long time.

I'm also confident he wasn't the one recommending AWB and Maguire at £130m. They have Woodward and Solksjaer BRITISH DNA all over them I'm afraid.

The traditional United signings like a Chicharito, like a Nani, like a Vidic...the ones you don't necessarily expect have been absent for years. I'd imagine he had more involvement with those than the recent failed 'galactico' approach.
 
Well we dont know what they did, so hard to judge. How much of a role have they played for example in the roles of signing Hannibal and Garnacho for example?

Either way, we havent signed an unearthed gem in a long time and we have made a few attempts at doing so that havent worked out. Whether thats poor scouting, scouts being ignore or what is another matter.

The main thing is though, change is obviously needed and our recruitment has been poor, so changes towards that I am all for
 
NotoriousISSY said:
Lawlor under Sir Alex clearly worked.

I can imagine the role of a head scout needing more frequent refreshment at a big club - he's been around for a long time.

I'm also confident he wasn't the one recommending AWB and Maguire at £130m. They have Woodward and Solksjaer BRITISH DNA all over them I'm afraid.

The traditional United signings like a Chicharito, like a Nani, like a Vidic...the ones you don't necessarily expect have been absent for years. I'd imagine he had more involvement with those than the recent failed 'galactico' approach.
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So like Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof, Pellestri & Diallo who have all failed (maybe slightly harsh on the latter two).

Or I suppose he had nothing to do with them because we're just going to cherry pick.
 
JPRouve said:
In a way. It has been reported and also mentioned many times by @Adnan on this forum that both Ole and Mourinho ignored the scouting department in favor of agents and their personal scouts.
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Yeah that's true, although you'd have to expect there's some reason those internally think it's time for them to leave. If I remember rightly Wells was the one who told our Solskjaer to overrule our scouts on Maguire.
 
Amazing news. This gives me some hope.

More heads need to roll in the recruitment department. They have been beyond atrocious for a decade now.
Gut the department and bring in ambitious and enthusiastic faces get rid of the old timers.
 
I guess this is a good thing? The whole club up and down needs changing. No point changing the front man if the rest behind him is still doing the same shit
 
AltiUn said:
Yeah that's true, although you'd have to expect there's some reason those internally think it's time for them to leave. If I remember rightly Wells was the one who told our Solskjaer to overrule our scouts on Maguire.
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In the case of Lawlor, he is known to be old school including a light use of computers which isn't a good fit with Murtough who is more of an analytics guy. For Bout, I have no idea, iirc he was more of a "next game" scout for LVG.
 
Joseunited said:
Does Neville really want us to succeed?What would he have to moan about if we started to challenge again?
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It's understandable he might be sceptical about whether this will lead to real change given a scouting department is only useful if the owners, manager etc utilise their work.
 
STaphouse said:
So like Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof, Pellestri & Diallo who have all failed (maybe slightly harsh on the latter two).

Or I suppose he had nothing to do with them because we're just going to cherry pick.
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I'll give you Bailly. I'm not convinced Dalot is one of theirs given Jose said "he has the potential to be the best full back in Europe".

Lindelof doesn't piss me off enough to warrant a place on this list. Sorry.
 
UnitedSofa said:
Fletcher is not the sporting director, Murtough is. Fletcher is the technical director. What exactly has Fletcher done wrong?

I'm gonna keep saying this until I'm blue in the face.

Fletcher has all the credentials necessary to do the job he's been hired to do, having played for the club for many years.

His role is to bridge the gap between the youth team and the first team, identify players who have the right mindset to play for the club in first team capacity. It is also his job to also identify if players we are looking to purchase as a transfer from another team for the first team if they too have the right mindset for the first team. That's his role.

Literally no one else from outside the club can do this role other than ex-players.
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What exactly has he done?
 
UnitedSofa said:
What makes you think Rangnick had anything to do with this?

It was Murtough.

The moves will be seen as a moment of change in United’s scouting structure and will attempt to streamline an operation which critics have said has become too top heavy.

John Murtough has full control of the football operations and has driven some of the changes as he seeks to help turn Manchester United around.

Key to those changes will be the appointment of Erik Ten Hag, who has reached an agreement in principle to become their next permanent manager, as The Athletic revealed earlier this month.

But hey, Murtough's shite according to the CAF anyway......
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Ralf is drawing attention to our downfalls every chance he gets so the club could continue what they've done for a long time which is hide their heads in the sand or they could listen to the advice given to them. Thankfully it seems to be the latter.

Murtough isn't going to act alone and get rid of staff although he may have the ultimate say.
 
NotoriousISSY said:
Lawlor under Sir Alex clearly worked.
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He worked because of SAF.

NotoriousISSY said:
I'm also confident he wasn't the one recommending AWB and Maguire at £130m. They have Woodward and Solksjaer BRITISH DNA all over them I'm afraid.

The traditional United signings like a Chicharito, like a Nani, like a Vidic...the ones you don't necessarily expect have been absent for years. I'd imagine he had more involvement with those than the recent failed 'galactico' approach.
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Wasn't Ed supposedly after the "Galactico" signings? That was the narrative for years since he took over from Gill.

Honestly don't believe the British thing was anything to do with Woodward at all, no idea where it come from... possibly the likes of Phelan and Neville as both offered advice to Ole apparently at the start. Phelan worked closely with Maguire at Hull and Neville with AWB at England.
 
JPRouve said:
Which isn't millions.



It depends, generally below 100k per year to way below that. And lets not insult these people who work incredible hours, the issue with Lawlor and other scouts has been well documented, it's not that they weren't doing their job but that they weren't listened to.
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He’s been here 16 years! It’s a pedantic point to make
 
Matt851 said:
It's understandable he might be sceptical about whether this will lead to real change given a scouting department is only useful if the owners, manager etc utilise their work.
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The incoming manager is getting the ball rolling then.
 
Keefy18 said:
He worked because of SAF.



Wasn't Ed supposedly after the "Galactico" signings? That was the narrative for years since he took over from Gill.

Honestly don't believe the British thing was anything to do with Woodward at all, no idea where it come from... possibly the likes of Phelan and Neville as both offered advice to Ole apparently at the start. Phelan worked closely with Maguire at Hull and Neville with AWB at England.
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Which Neville and which England set up?

AWB has been in 1 squad if I remember correctly?
 
Pickle85 said:
Call me cynical but it doesn't seem a coincidence that this comes out the day after the Liverpool shitshow.
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This decision would have been made ages ago and not made on a whim because of what happened yesterday. They'd have the structure for the new system in place and who they want to lead it (Rag) well before this.

And I think it's a good move to announce it the day after the expected loss to show the fans things are changing, so I wouldn't call it coincidence but good management for a change
 
2 man midfield said:
I’m always reminded of what happened with Hakimi - you know, the Man United fan and all round up-and-coming-best-right-back-in-Europe Hakimi - who got himself a meeting with Richard Arnold only to be asked who the feck he was.
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Allegedly this was Matt Judge and not Richard Arnold. Arnold seems (and that's the operative word) more competent so far.
 
Rolaholic said:
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It's almost cathartic see Rangnick come in and shit all over the recruitment like fans have been doing for a long time. Hope he targets our weird contract renewal policy next.
 
Gary is right though. Ole and Jose both had scouts and they listened to their words than us. So when you say they were marginalized, you are correct.

Still deserve the sacking given how bad our recruitment has been.
 
VP89 said:
Murtough relies heavily on Ralf's views. Athletic have reported he holds Ralf in high esteem and wants to lean on his expertise when he joined.
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This is why I said a few times, ten Hag will only be a success if working in tandem with Rangnick.

Rangnick has built a club up from the bottom to top in the modern era, he knows how things should be behind the scenes. Relying solely on Murtough whilst having Rangnick only as a consultant will be a massive mistake, Rangnick should be given a permanent role.

Murtough saying he'll lean on the expertise of Rangnick is him basically saying he'll learn on the job, which isn't good enough, in fact Murtough should be the Deputy DoF with Rangnick being DoF. We're now in the position where we need experts in their correct roles, none of this learning on the job shit, that's how we've landed in this giant rut.
 
NotoriousISSY said:
Which Neville and which England set up?

AWB has been in 1 squad if I remember correctly?
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Gary.

He was involved in the England set up for 4 years. The Athletic had a big article about the going British strategy at the time of that transfer window and cited Phelan and Neville as being involved in giving advice to Ole.

AWB was involved in the England youth teams from 2015 onwards, which overlaps about the last year or so of Nev's England stint.
 
STaphouse said:
So like Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof, Pellestri & Diallo who have all failed (maybe slightly harsh on the latter two).

Or I suppose he had nothing to do with them because we're just going to cherry pick.
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i wouldnt say diallo or pellestri failed at all. Pellestri was brilliant in pre season then sent on loan. Hes been getting international callups and doing well. If ETH (presumably) comes in, i can see them being the sort of young technical players he can work with and improve. With us short in wide areas and with so much work to do on the core of the team i think both will be in the squad next season.

I’d also argue Lindelof is a brilliant squad option - you arent going to get a world class centre half happy to sit on the bench every week.

we have signed some utter turd though in the main over the last decade but with our club its not always clear who the scouts signed or who the manager/board asked for tbh
 
VP89 said:
Stephen Howson said we are looking into hiring a lady (I know, take it with a bucket of salt) who is heavily into analytics.

I paid no attention to it but wonder if there is some wider restructure going on with how we scrape the world for talent.

Edit - take it with a bucket and a half in fact. Lord knows why it's even worth posting.
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Maram ?
 
No doubt they'll be a few out there desperate wanting to portray this as another disaster. I actually think it's a good move.

Lawlor has been at the club for years, he must've had some sort of input into some of the terrible signings we've made.
 
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