Jim Lawler has been here since 2005 and Bout came in with Van Gaal.
Manchester United's Chief Scout and Head of Global Scouting have left the club
- Thread starter L1nk
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I guess the point is that until Richard Arnold came in, Murtough and this new football structure had no real power in making these decisions, now that they do they have seen whats happened and are taking action to improve it and streamline it, make it better. Hopefully this means not only better scouts, but actual good football people who will listen to these scouts and make the decisions of who to buy along with these scouts
They have bought in no one, no jewels in the crown.
Always too late to the party, on Haaland, Bellingham could have saved us millions
Time for new regime, time for complete restructure
Always too late to the party, on Haaland, Bellingham could have saved us millions
Time for new regime, time for complete restructure
Paul Mitchell Incoming
I'd rather have Mitchell as the deputy DOF.
Will he be conceding like we did last night?
Given Ralf's comments earlier this week I presume he is the one pushing these changes to the recruitment team. I'm all for it given our track record. Bruno is the only transfer we've made in the last 5 years who would be considered a good signing for a good price.
Whether he's been a good manager or not, we shouldn't forget that his real expertise is club building off the pitch. Hopefully he can continue driving positive changes like this in the future. We know from his press conferences that he can see where the problems are and is not afraid to call people out on it. His honesty has been refreshing.
Whether he's been a good manager or not, we shouldn't forget that his real expertise is club building off the pitch. Hopefully he can continue driving positive changes like this in the future. We know from his press conferences that he can see where the problems are and is not afraid to call people out on it. His honesty has been refreshing.
Refreshing - the moves made in the backroom in the last 3 or 4 months are encouraging.
We don't know if these two were any good, but someone has to carry the can for the appalling recruitment at the club over the last decade. £800m spent on absolute dross and now we're once again looking at a complete rebuild. Frankly, I'd rather go in to that rebuild with some fresh ideas from new people, because it is clear that Lawler and Bout et al have fundamentally failed.
I'm sure that Rangnick publicly criticising our recruitment put these guys on borrowed time, and Ten Hag reportedly tearing our transfer policy to shreds in his interview, was maybe the final straw. Perhaps with Bout and Lawlor gone, some confidence will be restored.
I'm sure that Rangnick publicly criticising our recruitment put these guys on borrowed time, and Ten Hag reportedly tearing our transfer policy to shreds in his interview, was maybe the final straw. Perhaps with Bout and Lawlor gone, some confidence will be restored.
Do you actually believe the scouts / recruitment team recommended those players though?
Maguire and AWB appear to have been digned because ole decided to buy the best of British in those positions.
Pogba seems like a typical Ed signing.
I suspect that between the owners , Ed and manager the scouting team is often sidelined.
No.
if I remember well they were promoted or kept in their role during the major shakeout we had in 2021
I know nothing of the scouting world to say whether they were top notch, average or rubbish at their jobs, and ultimately, they may well have been poor and that would be reason enough for them to be let go. But yeah, I hope this is a move for the better across the board and wholesale changes for the better are being made.
Hopefully this indicates Murtough is listening to Ralf
Sensational
Another aspect of the restructuring it seems. Changes happening under the watchful eyes of RR. Can only be a good thing.
Hopefully Ralf is replacing Murtough.
In this club it doesn't really matters, call it how you like with all those made up roles names.
The main thing that Mitchell will be the one who in charge on recruitment.
Lawlor was promoted 2014.
They still recommended him as the best option:
It's fine to give your scouts some criteria but they have fallen short every single time we've made a signing. I bet none of them knew that Bellingham even existed until he hit the headlines. Ask anyone in Birmingham and they knew how good he was.
They're just piss poor and have become so complacent it's embarrassing.
Why? What on earth has Murtough done in such little time in his role? Things are moving in the background since Murtough and Ralph came in.
Utterly clueless opinions on Murtough from certain individuals.
Good. £130m on Maguire and Bissaka should get you sacked at any football club.
Jim Lawlor may have been good one time when he was at United but it became majorly stale maybe. Also Bout came in as a coach with LVG and was changed into a Scout, who knows if he was even good at it!? Judging from our recent past i'd say not. Like you say the fact none of them even saw Bellingham until he was making headlines is insane
Whether or not they were good or bad (I guess it depends on if you believe the story they were against Maguire etc but we’re overruled) we generally need a shake up and big changes in these key roles.
I will be surprised if Fletcher is here next season unless he’s just a coach (which would be fine) and there are probably many changes going on we don’t see in the general scouting teams around the world.
I will be surprised if Fletcher is here next season unless he’s just a coach (which would be fine) and there are probably many changes going on we don’t see in the general scouting teams around the world.
Well, I am assuming Murtough appointed Ralf? So if he appointed him and is humble enough to listen to his opinions and act on his advice, we're ready orders of magnitude better off than when Ed Woodward had the job.
Maybe because he was playing under Ole, so he told them to check him.
But the fact that they didn't understand that he is a generational talent and we should buy him no matter what (around 5 millions), then more questionmarks appear.
That's down to Murtough.
Scouts aren't in charge of recruitment. Scouts, scout players. That's all they do.
What experience does he have in the job? Why have we handled Pogba 400k a week contract? Why it took us so much time to sack Ole? Was it a good idea to go for a temporary manager whose system is poorly suited to our team? Wasn't Murtough part of the same transfer committee which brought us talent like Mcshane, Heaton + injury prone relics like Cavani and Varane?
Don't disagree, but we did go in hard for Bellingham before he went to Dortmund.
We tried to sign Haaland and Bellingham before they signed for Dortmund to be fair.
But yeah, the scouting department has been nothing short of shambolic - no good signings in close to a decade.
In before the "...Man Utd waiting to fill scouting positions before looking to make any signings." stories.
Yes. If not, who are they recommending?
When was the last time we signed a player who was an unqualified success? When did we last unearth a gem or get a bargain?
Ralf claimed recently that he asked for reports on a few of the best young players in the Bundeasliga and we didn't even know who the players were, let alone have reports on them. Its unacceptable.
Well Murtough is Woodward's man. The guy enjoyed multiple promotions under the Ed
Very interesting... Who's decision was it? Was it mutual? Did they leave before they were pushed? If it's a club decision, is it a Murtough decision, Rangnick or even Ten Hag? I want to be hopeful about this, but Lawlor in particular has been at the club for just shy of 20 years, dating back to 2005 if I'm correct? Shows in various places as chief analyst 2005-2013, before a promotion to chief scout in 2014. The common denominator is likely Ferguson himself given his retirement, but when he was analyst, at a glance you could say the hit/miss on player signings was close to 60/40 in favour of hits. After his promotion to chief scout/Fergie's retirement this has probably reversed to somewhere near 35/65 in favour of misses. On top of that we also started spending a lot more money on those misses, market inflation granted etc...
Have no idea how Lawlor did his job, and the hit/miss is really more likely due to the Fergie effect on those players, I imagine if you swapped the players/managers around, it may still be a similar story with SAF making those players successes or even vetoing them. I'm less versed on Marcel Bout, I only know he came in with Van Gaal, and I've read/heard people mention he had a coaching background more before he came to us so I don't know how he ending up in the recruitment side.
I also begin to wonder if this is what Rangnick was speaking to Paul Mitchell about, maybe not in terms of him getting any role, but in terms of discussing the jobs they were doing, what they should be doing, and whether they were any good in what they were doing, and maybe also any potential replacements for them in their contacts?
I hope this is a good thing and the start of a restructure, but if there is anything I've learnt recently, it is not to automatically assume that it is the start of something better, it could always get worse...
Have no idea how Lawlor did his job, and the hit/miss is really more likely due to the Fergie effect on those players, I imagine if you swapped the players/managers around, it may still be a similar story with SAF making those players successes or even vetoing them. I'm less versed on Marcel Bout, I only know he came in with Van Gaal, and I've read/heard people mention he had a coaching background more before he came to us so I don't know how he ending up in the recruitment side.
I also begin to wonder if this is what Rangnick was speaking to Paul Mitchell about, maybe not in terms of him getting any role, but in terms of discussing the jobs they were doing, what they should be doing, and whether they were any good in what they were doing, and maybe also any potential replacements for them in their contacts?
I hope this is a good thing and the start of a restructure, but if there is anything I've learnt recently, it is not to automatically assume that it is the start of something better, it could always get worse...
I think this is ignoring the fact that Murtough and our new football department weren't in charge or had any power to marginalise Jim. So I think this does mean a change, even if its a small one
Hahaha feck. It’s just second nature to write concede when talking about us these days.
Not being the most knowledge football person in the game is fine if you're humble enough to listen and not believe you always know best.
I think it's right to give Murtough an opportunity first
'The decision was taken by the club amid complaints over United’s recruitment method, in which too many star players have underperformed.
In recent years, Paul Pogba, Alexis Sanchez, Donny van de Beek and Raphael Varane are just four of numerous signings who have failed to live up to either their fee or reputation.
United are determined to drive change under football director John Murtough and these decisions are viewed as the start of that process.'