The Thiago one in the classics is closest to my heart, mainly because I started it.
Manchester United's Chief Scout and Head of Global Scouting have left the club
- Thread starter L1nk
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The Thiago one in the classics is closest to my heart, mainly because I started it.
I think after Fergie they assumed they could leave everything to the manager apart from dithering over when to release funds and for what. I reckon he became more hands on sometime during or after Moyes and we’ve never looked back as the man would say….
I believe that SAF ended entangled in his own web. The guy resisted any modernisation (DOF, technical director etc) because that would have stifled his complete control over the football side of things. He couldn't possibly force the new manager to live with restraints he never accepted in the first place.
Which goes to show he’s involved in the micro management of the club. This is definitely not the guy to micromanaging a club back to success. I’m also fairly sure the glazer kids all have a say on major transfers and that’s why our sagas go for 75% longer then other clubs. I have a feeling they look at it it like it’s literally money out of their pockets and the speed at which we operate (and backtrack) makes us look totally indecisive
I'm going with Adnan. Either Woodward prevented him or Murtough just simply didn't care enough, the club was in a deep shit and there were so many things to fix that its understandable people didn't know where to start. Also devilish is a Juventus fan what does he know about Murtough?
If Lawlor had indeed been marginalised (possibly because of an unwillingness to embrace modern comms technology) then why has he been kept on until now? Surely it would have been better to pension him off generously?
So it looks like Murtough either:
1. = @devilish 2. = @Adnan - take your pick…
- hadn’t a clue what was going on until it was spelled out to him by Ralf; or
- was well aware of it all but was prevented from doing anything about it by Woodward
I’m Team @Adnan right now, but may well swap sides depending on how things go over the summer.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director
This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.
Do you really think that the CEO of a multi billionaire company would micromanage everything? Do you seriously believe that an accountant would go on signing the players he liked as if he's on football manager? These days football had grown so big that even managers struggle to keep up with transfers. In fact that's why full time specialists like DOFs and head of recruitment are appointed. Now in the absence of such role at United the club relied on a small group of people to call the shots ie the famous transfer committee. That included the manager but also football people close to Woodward. Who could be closer to Woodward then Jon Murtough ie a guy whom under his reign ended up at the top of the football pyramid? Jon ended up the boss of both SAF's protegees ie Lawlor and Fletcher but also Woodward's own matey from University ie Judge. That's the very personification of a Woodward's man. In fact now that Woodward has left I won't be surprised if Murtough and/or Fletcher would be the next to go.
Regarding Fletcher, Cech is an advisor whose role is covered in a 2 line sentence
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/teams/managers/petr-cech
The legendary former Chelsea goalkeeper returned to the club at the beginning of 2019/20 in a new role in which he provides advice on all football and performance matters throughout the club as well as helping to maintain strong links between our men’s and Academy teams, ensuring that the various support departments are working together effectively.
While Fletcher has a role which is so complex that even Rangnick struggle to understand it fully. That include coaching the first team, interviewing and having a say on who will be our next manager, delivering technical advice across all aspects of the football department as well as contributing to the communication and delivery of our football philosophy across all areas of the club and helping to bring young players through and further develop the football side of the club. Which is quite amazing for someone who started as U16 coach in October 2020, he was promoted as first team coach in January and ended up Technical director by March. This guy is either a genius or...
Regarding Ole, the guy was part of a transfer committee that also included Murtough. As the official website had stated John (not Woodward, John Murtough) had been working closely with Ole FOR YEARS to create the structures processes and culture to deliver :cough: sustained success :cough: on the pitch. That included successful overhauls of the academy and the recruitment department. So while Ole has to carry his own share of blame he was not alone in this mess and should pay the same ultimate price Ole did.
Regarding Pogba the contract extension had been reported by many tier 1 journalists including Romano
Please note that Pogba is currently on 350k a week so an increased salary would probably take him to the 400k-500k a week.
To wrap it up I have no problems with us promoting from within but only when the system in place is successful and well structured. We seem promoting failure and giving on the job training within a structure were no one is capable of doing his job correctly let alone mentor successfully. Meanwhile there's little doubt that Jon Murtough is a Woodward's man (he got hired and promoted during his tenure) and I won't be surprised if he and/or Fletcher is shown the door. I am not the only one to think that. During Howson's last video he suggested that Fletcher might not be sticking around for long.
I am not a Juventus fan.
If Lawlor had indeed been marginalised (possibly because of an unwillingness to embrace modern comms technology) then why has he been kept on until now? Surely it would have been better to pension him off generously?
So it looks like Murtough either:
1. = @devilish 2. = @Adnan - take your pick…
- hadn’t a clue what was going on until it was spelled out to him by Ralf; or
- was well aware of it all but was prevented from doing anything about it by Woodward
I’m Team @Adnan right now, but may well swap sides depending on how things go over the summer.
My point is very simple. Can you imagine a CEO of a multi billionaire club having the time to play football manager? I don't. Woodward had his football people just as Berlusconi had Galliani and Moratti had Branca. In this case everything points at Jon Murtough. Jon was hired during Woodward's tenure and kept getting promoted during this time up until he ended up head of the football pyramid. I find it very hard to believe that Murtough had no say whatsoever and that its everyone else fault. Its a theory that doesn't make sense and is not supported by the official site itself.
Oh I’m not saying there’s no chance you could be right. We shall see over the next few months.
It does seem unlikely that the change in direction taken recently is unconnected with the departure of Woodward though.
Contract offer since last July - that was written in December. So a contract offer on the table for a year and a half.
Hence why I said Cech is technical director in all but name, they don’t have a technical director so he’s been their stand in. But yes also ignore absolutely everyone else I mentioned.
Ah yes Howson who doesn’t really have much insight beyond Ronaldo resigning.
Yes you can trust the website, which is PR or see that actually it looks like since February the decisions being made behind the scenes seem to be pushing us in the right direction.
Again let’s use Edwards as an analogy here - very much FSGs man, gets to the top and then with a good manager everything turns around. I just don’t see the point in having some militant agenda against the man. We aren’t changing him, but it’s now looking like there is some optimism on the horizon. Bask in the hope rather than being a negative Nancy who pretends to support United but actually support Juventus.
I can't predict how things will go in the future but I think there's room for optimism with Murtough now reportedly the de-facto DoF. And i'm humble enough to admit that things could go wrong as well. But for me as a Manchester United supporter, it's healthier to look at things with a positive frame of mind, rather than constantly attack John Murtough like some are doing, which I find quite disturbing and something that's bordering on the obsessive. I would rather be wrong in my support towards John Murtough and my club, than resort to a constant barrage of criticism which is easily refutable.
If Lawlor had indeed been marginalised (possibly because of an unwillingness to embrace modern comms technology) then why has he been kept on until now? Surely it would have been better to pension him off generously?
So it looks like Murtough either:
1. = @devilish 2. = @Adnan - take your pick…
- hadn’t a clue what was going on until it was spelled out to him by Ralf; or
- was well aware of it all but was prevented from doing anything about it by Woodward
I’m Team @Adnan right now, but may well swap sides depending on how things go over the summer.
I also think it's important to understand what Murtough's role has been at the club for a large part of his time since he joined the club. And his role at the club has been to oversee the development of everything beneath the first team. And it's a role that has been common at other English clubs for a even longer time. And as you well know, we've had a tradition going back decades in the UK where the first team manager controlled the football side of the club. So what transpired (as things evolved) was that instead of having Sporting directors at first team level, English clubs created the very same role overseeing all things beneath the first team. John Murtough was the Sporting director outside of the first team fold with the first team manager controlling affairs at first team level.
I can give you several examples of the same role at other English clubs, but i'll use the one at Tottenham. Tottenham when they fired Pochettino, did their fans blame John McDermott, who like Murtough was tasked with overseeing the development of the club, beneath the first team? The answer to that is they didn't, because John McDermott had nothing to do with the failure at first team level. McDermott has since joined the English FA as the Technical Director. And even when he was at Spurs, Levy is known to have confided in agents to bring managers in. And Woodward has also reportedly confided in agents when appointing managers, because I don't believe football men like McDermott/Murtough would ever overlook the mid to long-term, when appointing a coach. Because the aforementioned two, prioritise development (from the evidence hand) and take a holistic approach to hiring and firing from what i've read and heard via podcasts. So i'm not surprised Murtough opted for ten Hag.
Murtough only became the de-facto DoF, when Solskjaer was sacked. So he didn't have the authority to make major decisions because according to reports, Solskjaer didn't report to Murtough but rather to Woodward. And unless there's a buffer between the head coach and board members, then there's no active DoF model in play. It looks like that may not be the case anymore, with a head coach and not manager coming in.
I am not saying that I am 100% right. All I am saying is that I find it naïve that every mistake done was all down to Woodward (as if a CEO has time to play football manager) and Ole especially since Murtough had seen his career flourish during the Woodward's administration. Its also common for people whose under pressure to put all the blame on outgoing staff (ex LVG, Mourinho, Ole, Bout and Lawlor etc) as it is create some breathing space for those staying to operate.
Regarding Fletcher/Murtough, Howson has just stated that he won't be surprised if Fletcher leaves and the guy seems to have good links with United former players (Rio, Gaz and co). Which means that almost everyone under Murtough will be gone (Lawlor, Bout and Fletcher). Now that Jon M has lost his 'protector' could we see a change at United with Rangnick and Mitchell taking over?
I agree, it's not good enough and they have to relinquish control when it comes to the decision making process. And the Glazers are my biggest worry.
You're wasting your time, s/he's obviously got an agenda against Fletcher.
That's not too bad as long as it is the afternoon and not 2 weeks later.
This explains our late subs.
I think a lot of people need to accept on here that since Fergie and Gill left, a lot of people who remained at the club have been phoning it in, from Woodward, to Jim all the way down to the players. The difference is you can spot when a player has given up, ala Van Persie, staff is not so easy.
If Lawlor had indeed been marginalised (possibly because of an unwillingness to embrace modern comms technology) then why has he been kept on until now? Surely it would have been better to pension him off generously?
So it looks like Murtough either:
1. = @devilish 2. = @Adnan - take your pick…
- hadn’t a clue what was going on until it was spelled out to him by Ralf; or
- was well aware of it all but was prevented from doing anything about it by Woodward
I’m Team @Adnan right now, but may well swap sides depending on how things go over the summer.
Is there anything that Glazers bring to the club that wouldn't be done better by a literal mannequin?
How much of that was due to Woodward interfering and niot giving Murtough a free hand?
I’m sure you’re right.
Even so, if Neville “knew” that Jim had been marginalised, surely someone in the club would have spotted? Unless, as you suggest, Woodward was doing as much phoning in as anyone else.
It must have been all very frustrating for those staff who were actually in possession of a professional attitude. I suppose Murtough could occupy himself in projects like the women’s team and academy restructure in order to give himself a reason to turn up for work other than his regular pay cheque.
Some of the criticism here is unwarranted in my opinion.
He didn’t hire Ole and was not in charge of manager appointments/firings/contracts when Ole was renewed.
Not hiring Conte (we don’t know if this is a mistake yet) that is purely a short termist view.
Taking 6 months to hire ETH? Its been quite clear for the first time we have actually done a comprehensive review of who to hire (which is why an interim was necessary and not Conte). That interim was also involved in the hiring decision. Time will tell but I think you’ll find hes got that part right (long term point of view).
Its not his fault that when he took up this responsibilty that the club didn’t already have a detailed succession plan (and its good he brought in someone with more knowledge than himself to help him out on this).
Worst thing for him to do would have been to quickly hire Conte (who would not have accepted an interim position) and potentially miss out on Ten Hag this summer but get top 4 with a manager who has a record of success but by:
1. Not playing the football we want to see
2. Hiring short term players of the wrong age to get success (see his time at Inter)
Conte would have been a Jose type appointment for United longer term it would have caused many issues.
Mannequins don’t saddle you with crippling debt and take dividends every year. So there’s that.
The Neville tweet is just him saying "my mate isn't to blame" again. Wouldn't give it any weight.
Please be true...
So what is Hayden Croft’s reputation and reliability like for stories? Never heard of him until now but there’s always someone who’ll get wind of something before the usual suspects do.
That person can't even spell Monaco...
Romano actually mentioned this was in the making. Wouldnt be surprised if this happens. Don’t know who this person posting about it is though
No wonder Remington is our official sponsor. All the new hires look like they don't need a pair of scissors for a hair cut.
That account looks like a textbook bullshitter.
Either the changes made were reactionary or have to question why everything takes so long to sort out. You’d think if there was any kind of strategy we’d have someone in place straight away, especially given how important the summer transfer window is.
But he has his own monogram logo. They won’t let just anyone have a logo.
a lot of talk in twitter about paul mitchell being brought in, I'm beginning to have real hope
Sounds like that "Hayden Croft" account just wants to be the 1 who put this Exclusive first
If they go back on their word to ten Hag, the supporters need to take action.
and I do not mean the ridiculous type of walking in after 17 minutes stuff.
Direct action to stop matches at Old Trafford taking place.
That will hurt them financially.
Lets hope it does not come to that.
This is definitely something that needed to be done. Look at Liverpool's recruitment over the last 6-7 years, compared to ours. We have no vision towards a particular goal, it's just buy and shoe in time signings.
How did we lose out on both Van Dijk and Ibrahima Konate?? We have more money, but obviously no sense. Konate was 21 and a strong presence even when we played Leipzig, £36m is peanuts compared to the 50m and 80m on AWB and Maguire.
It's going to take 4-5 more years to rebuild this club, lets not fool ourselves.
How did we lose out on both Van Dijk and Ibrahima Konate?? We have more money, but obviously no sense. Konate was 21 and a strong presence even when we played Leipzig, £36m is peanuts compared to the 50m and 80m on AWB and Maguire.
It's going to take 4-5 more years to rebuild this club, lets not fool ourselves.
On VVD I agree with you but with Konate he was a major problem in that he was so injury prone in Leipzig, I don't think we needed to risk it.
Hi new to the forum. Lets take a breath and put faith in the new manager. We made huge mistakes in the market like the 10 scout reports over a long period on Davies who went to Bayern from Vancouver. Mentioning Van Dyke,konate etc is self abuse, might as well stab yourself in the eye for similar results. Lets pray the removal of senior scouts is a result of our previous actions and on ETH's first demands whilst negotiation were concluding. Onwards and upwards I's say.