Manchester United vs Arsenal 24/10/04

been struggling with the formation for an hour now and I still can decide who should play
I reckon there will be some surprises though-We can leave Neville exposed on the right Cole and Pires will run riot so I cant see the midfield consisting of jsut keane and scholes- I think O'Shea will start and Scholes will miss out.
 
-----------caroll-----------

g-nevile----rio----silvestre----heinz


ronaldo----keane-----scholes----giggs

-----smith---------------

-------------ruud-------------

subs-
ricardo
brown
p nevil
saha
rooney
 
weRutd&werule said:
been struggling with the formation for an hour now and I still can decide who should play
I reckon there will be some surprises though-We can leave Neville exposed on the right Cole and Pires will run riot so I cant see the midfield consisting of jsut keane and scholes- I think O'Shea will start and Scholes will miss out.
Click to expand...
No way will fergie leave scholes out, he will play in midfield or supporting Ruud up front!!.
 
United v Arsenal: Key battles


THE PREMIERSHIP'S big two go head-to-head at Old Trafford on Sunday with Manchester United desperately seeking a victory to end Arsenal's 49-game unbeaten run and mount a championship challenge.

Though their own form has been relatively poor this term, United's recent record against the Gunners is good and they emerged unscathed from three high-octane meetings last term.

Paul Scholes' blistering effort proved decisive in the last meaningful clash between the pair - last April's FA Cup semi-final at Villa Park - and here, the Press Association looks at the key battles that will determine the likely victor this weekend.


Roy Carroll v Jens Lemon

Carroll produced two superb displays in league and cup against the Gunners last term, only to then lose his place to Tim Howard. The Northern Irishman has been given another chance this term and earned rave reviews with his man of the match performance in Prague on Tuesday, showing no willingness to vacate the role.

Lehmann has often been viewed as the one weak link in the Arsenal side but the German is steadily adapting to life in the Premiership and is no longer exposed on such a regular basis. Remains a fiery customer though and was one of the major trouble-makers in last season's 'Battle of Old Trafford' which still irks Sir Alex Ferguson.

VERDICT: Lehmann just edges it on class alone but Carroll has never let United down when it mattered.


Mikael Silvestre v Thierry Henry

Silvestre's place in the United line-up was at threat after some below-par performances early in the campaign but the French international has been visibly lifted by Rio Ferdinand's return from suspension. Quick and strong, the former Inter Milan man has all the attributes required of a top defender but sometimes lacks concentration.

On top form, Henry is virtually unplayable and is certainly the jewel in a dazzling Arsenal crown. One of the fastest players in the game, the striker seems to cover the ground like a greyhound. Throw in his mesmerising skill and you get one of the best in the world. Only major fault is a tendency towards over-elaboration at times.

VERDICT: Few defenders get the better of Henry but Silvestre, his old mate from the French football academy at Clairefontaine, has managed it. If he can do it again, United's chances would dramatically increase.


Paul Scholes v Edu

The match-winner at Villa Park, Scholes has endured a difficult start to the campaign, not least because of the groin injury he picked up after being rushed back to action on the pre-season tour to the United States, a move Ferguson now admits was a big mistake. He remains though the man most likely to split opposition defences and on top form could guide the home side to victory.

If Patrick Vieira misses out as expected, Edu will have the job of stopping the United midfield from functioning. The Brazilian is out of contract in the summer and is attempting to prove to Arsene Wenger is he good enough to hold down a regular place in the Gunners side. This would be a good day to do it.

VERDICT: Scholes has been an enigmatic presence for United of late, rarely producing the form that has made him such a favourite of his manager. If he can't find his touch, Edu will have a comfortable afternoon, if he does, Arsenal will be in trouble.
 
United v Arsenal: Managers - head to head
SIR Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger will pit their wits against each other once again when Manchester United take on Arsenal in the Barclays Premiership on Sunday.

The two clubs have built an intense rivalry over the past decade but the Gunners have the edge going into the Old Trafford clash and are protecting a 49-game unbeaten league run.

There has never been any love lost between the two managers. They have been at each others' throats for years. They sparred verbally prior to the season-opening Community Shield and words have again been exchanged in the build-up to this weekend's meeting.

Here, ManchesterOnline compares English club football's top two managers.

RECORD

Ferguson: With eight league championships, five FA Cups and one Champions League title, Ferguson is one of the most successful managers ever to worked in the English game. He was also a success with Aberdeen. 9/10.

Wenger: A French championship winner with Monaco, Wenger has gone on to further success at Arsenal, winning three league titles and three FA Cups, although he has failed to get his side beyond the Champions League quarter-finals. It is a fine record by anybody's standards but it is still some way short of matching Ferguson's. 8.


MAN MANAGEMENT

Ferguson: David Beckham's claims of bullying aside, there are few managers able to get more out of players than Ferguson. The days when millionaire footballers are willing to submit to the `hairdryer' treatment may be passing but Ferguson remains a master of the old school. 7.

Wenger: It is hard to imagine the urbane Frenchman summoning a Ferguson-style fury for his half-time team-talk but Wenger is a superb man manager. Fiercely loyal to his players, he also has a proven record in turning around the careers of underachieving footballers. 8.


TACTICS

Ferguson: The United boss recently admitted that mistakes he had made in selection were behind his side's poor start to the season. He is boosted now by the return of Ruud van Nistelrooy from injury, Rio Ferdinand from suspension and the signing of Wayne Rooney but United are still to hit their stride. Cristiano Ronaldo is a growing influence and Alan Smith has started the season well but United are struggling to create chances for their deadly strikeforce. 7

Wenger: Arsenal ooze class across the field. Their defence is sound, built around the imposing Sol Campbell and Kolo Toure, and Ashley Cole is maturing into a world-class left-back. The midfield based around the likes of Freddie Ljungberg, Patrick Vieira and Robert Pires is tireless and with Cesc Fabregas coming through the future is as bright as the present. Up front Jose Reyes and Dennis Bergkamp are fearsome opponents and Thierry Henry is almost too good for words. 9


MIND GAMES

Ferguson: Has always tried to rile his opposite numbers and is unlikely to change now. Prior to the Community Shield he opined that Arsenal were not the best side in the country but it backfired. He has tried a fresh offensive this week, claiming Arsenal were not punished heavily enough for their indiscipline in last season's visit to Old Trafford. Such has been Arsenal's recent dominance however that his verbal barbs have made little impact. United may have had the better of their meetings last season but the Gunners took the plaudits at the end of the season. 7

Wenger: The Frenchman seems to be above Ferguson's mind games and rarely falls for them. He has long been the master of Ferguson on this front, even when Arsenal were finishing behind United. Wenger has no need to play psychological games. His side are so superior in every department he need not let it bother him. 8.
 
United v Arsenal: Strikers - head to head



AMID the combustible components of Sunday's Premiership showdown between Manchester United and Arsenal, the striking battle will be among the most fascinating.

Arsenal have already scored an incredible 29 goals in nine league games this season and though United trail badly with only nine, surely it is only a matter of time before Ruud van Nistelrooy, Wayne Rooney et al hit top form.

Here, ManchesterOnline looks at the men who will be backed to provide the goals, and ultimately settle the destination of the points.



MANCHESTER UNITED

Ruud van Nistelrooy (Age: 28; 2004-05: eight games, four goals)

Strengths: Lethal finisher, whose predatory instincts help him find space in the most crowded of penalty areas. Scores goals with left foot, right foot or head.

Weaknesses: Remarkably, has never scored for United from outside the box. Doesn't have blinding pace. 9/10


Wayne Rooney (18 1/819 on Sunday3/8; four games, three goals)

Strengths: Toughness, plenty of pace and fearless in scoring positions. Has already proved his talent in the Premiership, Europe and at a major international championship.

Weaknesses: Still needs to mature, prone to stupid flashes of temper. 9.5


Louis Saha (26; four games, no goals)

Strengths: Combination of speed, strength and agility is a potent weapon. Shows some similarities to Henry and works incredibly hard outside the area.

Weaknesses: Dogged by injuries since moving north from Fulham and lacks match sharpness. 8



ARSENAL

Thierry Henry (27; 12 games, nine goals)

Strengths: Blinding speed which few defenders come close to matching. Finds space with unerring regularity with his left wing forays and capable of devastating and simple finishes in equal measure.

Weaknesses: Sometimes looks for the perfect goal and can get frustrated easily. 10


Dennis Bergkamp (35; 10 games, three goals)

Strengths: Plays with his brain. What age has taken from his legs, his intelligence makes up for. Reads a game superbly and also has brilliant vision. Still scores goals too.

Weaknesses: Has a nasty streak which comes to the surface from time to time. 8.5


Jose Reyes (21; 12 games, six goals)

Strengths: Incredibly mobile and quick, fits in perfectly with Arsenal's pass and move philosophy. Has proved capable of playing in wider positions this term and still produced an impressive goal ratio.

Weaknesses: Still inexperienced. Lack of English makes communication a problem. 9
 
Fergie: Only a win will do
SIR Alex Ferguson is convinced Manchester United will end Arsenal's 49-game unbeaten run on Sunday - because they simply have to.

The Gunners saunter into Old Trafford this weekend having not lost in the Premiership since May 2003 and already boasting an 11-point lead over their long-standing rivals.

Every available form line suggests Arsene Wenger's side will make it 50 not out, and may even extend their advantage to a title-busting 14 points.

United have won only three times in the league this season, have scored just once in their last three games and stand on the brink of recording a third successive goalless draw for the first time since 1921.

However, Ferguson hardly needs to remind anyone at Highbury that his team are at their most dangerous when cornered.

They were supposed to be the inferior side ahead of last season's late double header yet followed a creditable Premiership draw in London by dumping Arsenal out of the FA Cup at Villa Park.

And, despite their current lack of form, Ferguson has no doubts that his squad are capable of reviving their interest in the championship chase by shooting down the Gunners.

"I have a group of players who are well and truly capable of winning the game on Sunday and that is what I expect us to do," he said.

"For us to win the league, winning is a big issue for us on Sunday. I am sure Arsenal would be delighted if they got a draw and stayed 11 points clear of us.

"But we know from past experience that leagues can turn very easily. We were 12 points behind Newcastle in 1996 and won it and 12 points ahead of Arsenal in 1998 and lost it.

"What we have to do is get a victory on Sunday and then see how that affects things."

Ferguson is sweating on the fitness of skipper Roy Keane, who has failed to shrug off the flu virus that prevented him making the Champions League trip to Prague in midweek.

If the veteran Irishman does make it, United could field their strongest line-up for the first time this season.

Return

Rio Ferdinand is certain to return in central defence, probably at the expense of Wes Brown, while Cristiano Ronaldo should take the right-wing berth occupied on Tuesday by Liam Miller.

Aside from the importance of victory itself, the build-up has been centred around the ugly ending to last season's corresponding fixture, when Ruud van Nistelrooy was manhandled by a posse of Arsenal players celebrating the Dutchman's last-minute penalty miss.

Both sides have already received a warning from Greater Manchester Police that a repeat of those scenes will not be tolerated, although Ferguson, whose team were largely blameless in the incident, doesn't believe discipline will be a problem for his side this year either.

"It's an important game but we know how to handle it," he said.

"Earlier this week, Arsene Wenger made the point about being responsible but as manager of Manchester United I have always felt that. That is why our disciplinary record is so good."

Magnanimously, Ferguson praised Arsenal for their imperious form, claiming the record unbeaten run is `something special'.

What he will hope though is the vast disparity between the two sides' scoring records can start to be narrowed.

While Wenger's team have found the net an incredible 29 times in nine games this term, United's £63million strikeforce have managed a paltry nine.

Ruud van Nistelrooy's single league strike came from the penalty spot, while Wayne Rooney and Louis Saha - admittedly from only five games between them - have yet to break their duck.

Ferguson has already admitted the current form is a concern but his belief in that trio and Alan Smith, who leads United's scoring charts with six, is undiminished.

"It's a bit like asking whether it will snow in January," smiled the Scot when asked if he still felt his strikers maintained their cutting edge.

"Players do go through blips and in every dimension of the game, confidence for strikers is a big factor.

"When they score, they don't think they can miss. When they don't, they don't know where the next goal is coming from.

"Ruud's record tells you everything you need to know about him and Wayne is the same.

"Louis and Alan are proven scorers too, all it needs is just a little breakthrough."
 
vanthaman said:
------------Spurs Bus (On Loan)-------
--------Brown------Rio's clone---------
---Neville -- Rio --- Silv --- Heinze----
Ronaldo--Keane--Scholes--Smith--Giggs
-------Smith--Rooney---Saha--------
---------------Ruud------------------
Click to expand...

:lol: i think this would work; I'm going for 2-0... to us!!
 
-------------------Caroll---------------------
------Gaz-------Rio----Silvestre----Heinze----
---Cristiano--Keane-----?/Scholes---Giggs-----
-------------------Scholes/?------------------
---------------Ruud--------------------------

I think the team has pretty much picked itself but one position is up for grabs.

Will Fergie go for 5 across midfield with Scholes supporting Ruud up front - meaning OShea the most likely candidate. But could Phil Nev be unleashed on the Arsenal, unlikely going by the lack of games he has had this season. Or could it be my personal favourite for the role, Eric Djemba Djemba, I think he could mix it up in the centre of the park in what is bound to be a fiery encounter. However, if chosen, he would have to stick to simple passing. Just role the ball or Scholes or Keane who will "always" pick the pass for him, no need for him to try it - its obvious its not part of his game.

Or his other option is to drop Scholes into midfield meaning Ruud is partnered by either boywonder (no more though, since its his 19th birthday on Sunday - as it is my 19th too! What an honour ;)) Wayne Rooney, Alan Smith or less likely Louis Saha. Despite his obvious pace which would cause most defences problems, Arsenal's defence seems to have pace to cope, but remember Yakubu last season?! However, more likely it will be one of the other two - both perfect for an encounter of this kind (perhaps he should use both). Alan Smith has learned to control his temper more so and is more ready for a match of such huge importance and one that is bound to get out of hand. Rooney though cannot be left out surely, he is a big game player!

It's clear Fergie has some big decisions to make.

I think he may go for an extra man in midfield, its overcome the Gunners in the past.

One shock that I think could occur is Rooney playing support striker ahead of Scholes. Everyone would agree Scholes is a class act and can not usually be left out of any team. However, he has been a shadow of the player he can be recently. Rooney is something fresh and is special. But Fergie can't leave Scholes out against Arsenal, can he?

I am yet to see the two work together in the same team be it England or United, except the occasions where Scholes was shifted wide left for England in the run up for and during the Euros. They seem to want the same space on the pitch, though Rooney naturally pushes further up.
 
Motterman said:
Easy win for us.

All we have to do is play the Champions League music before kickoff.
Click to expand...
lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif
 
-----------Carroll--------------
neville--mikey---rio---heinze
ronaldo---keane----ronaldo
-------scholes------------
--------smith-------------
-------------ruud-------

or in the case that keano isn't available i suppose moving smithy to midfield and saha up front with kleb or djdj on the bench, but smith really needs to start. we need that extra passion and fire in there, and certainly no o'shea in midfield,

i'd like to see howard on the bench again
phil neville- come in later in the match, always plays well against the arse
brown
rooney - late sub for extra firepower, give im a rest early
saha - possible late sub for more offense
 
I'd be surprised if the manager didn't pick this:

---------------------Carroll--------------------
---Neville--Ferdinand--Silvestre---Heinze--
------<<___O'Shea-------Keane-------------
-------Ronaldo-----Scholes--------Giggs----
-------------------Nistelrooy-----------------

I'd play Smith up-front instead of O'Shiteinmidfield, Rooney second-half sub. Phil can do his Nicky Butt impersonation if Roy isn't fit.

If Fergie does pick his team just around how Arsenal play instead of how we play, then he can't expect us to gel.
 
Carroll
Gaz-Rio-Micky-Heinze
Ronaldo-DJ-Keano(Scholes)-Giggs
Van-Smith

i think Alan is the perfect man for this match. Strong and will make problems for Sol and co. Rooney need more games. Give him a some time.
think DJ have the pace to get Arsenals mid.

2-0 to United.
Smith and DJ.
Fantastic match.
 
molo said:
Carroll
Gaz-Rio-Micky-Heinze
Ronaldo-DJ-Keano(Scholes)-Giggs
Van-Smith

i think Alan is the perfect man for this match. Strong and will make problems for Sol and co. Rooney need more games. Give him a some time.
think DJ have the pace to get Arsenals mid.

2-0 to United.
Smith and DJ.
Fantastic match.
Click to expand...
van-smith?

new dutch superstar perhaps?

or is Fergie trying to give Smithy a more exotic european name in the hope that he turns into the next Vanbasten?
 
very Ruud said:
United v Arsenal: Strikers - head to head



AMID the combustible components of Sunday's Premiership showdown between Manchester United and Arsenal, the striking battle will be among the most fascinating.

Arsenal have already scored an incredible 29 goals in nine league games this season and though United trail badly with only nine, surely it is only a matter of time before Ruud van Nistelrooy, Wayne Rooney et al hit top form.

Here, ManchesterOnline looks at the men who will be backed to provide the goals, and ultimately settle the destination of the points.



MANCHESTER UNITED

Ruud van Nistelrooy (Age: 28; 2004-05: eight games, four goals)

Strengths: Lethal finisher, whose predatory instincts help him find space in the most crowded of penalty areas. Scores goals with left foot, right foot or head.

Weaknesses: Remarkably, has never scored for United from outside the box. Doesn't have blinding pace. 9/10


Wayne Rooney (18 1/819 on Sunday3/8; four games, three goals)

Strengths: Toughness, plenty of pace and fearless in scoring positions. Has already proved his talent in the Premiership, Europe and at a major international championship.

Weaknesses: Still needs to mature, prone to stupid flashes of temper. 9.5


Louis Saha (26; four games, no goals)

Strengths: Combination of speed, strength and agility is a potent weapon. Shows some similarities to Henry and works incredibly hard outside the area.

Weaknesses: Dogged by injuries since moving north from Fulham and lacks match sharpness. 8



ARSENAL

Thierry Henry (27; 12 games, nine goals)

Strengths: Blinding speed which few defenders come close to matching. Finds space with unerring regularity with his left wing forays and capable of devastating and simple finishes in equal measure.

Weaknesses: Sometimes looks for the perfect goal and can get frustrated easily. 10


Dennis Bergkamp (35; 10 games, three goals)

Strengths: Plays with his brain. What age has taken from his legs, his intelligence makes up for. Reads a game superbly and also has brilliant vision. Still scores goals too.

Weaknesses: Has a nasty streak which comes to the surface from time to time. 8.5


Jose Reyes (21; 12 games, six goals)

Strengths: Incredibly mobile and quick, fits in perfectly with Arsenal's pass and move philosophy. Has proved capable of playing in wider positions this term and still produced an impressive goal ratio.

Weaknesses: Still inexperienced. Lack of English makes communication a problem. 9
Click to expand...
what is that load of crap?

Rooney better than Ruud? Reyes better than dennis?

HENRY A 10!!?? What about the fact that my grandma is better in the air than Henry and shes on a zimmer frame!!

This is not a computer game mate.
 
Looking Busy said:
Carroll

Gaz - Rio - Wes - Heize
Ronaldo - Keane - Scholes - Giggs
Ruud - Rooney

If Keane is fit, if not play Phil Nev.
Click to expand...



Yes, this will be the line up.

Pires will seek to go wide to drag Gaz out there and that's where Arsenals attack will penetrate or fail.
 
But where, Gaz?

I agree its his kind of game.

Personally, as Ive stated before, I rate him above Rooney. Saf, by his own admission, has lost the plot a bit recently. I doubt he'll admit it to the point of leaving the kid out.
 
Feck I can't wait for this game. Reckon United will win 3-1. I predict a fine display from United. :devil:

(I'm also very stoned at the moment (05:17am) so I am probably WAY off)
 
I would definitely start smith, his ability to keep possession and hold the ball up will be important at the start of the match. His chasing and pressurising will also be very usefull.
If things were level at half time, i would introduce rooney for the start of the second half; a straight swop for smith. Other than that, i would say our line up is fairly predictable other than keane, who to be honest has simply not done anything for us this year - it might be a blessing if he misses the game, probably O'shea would step in, i'm not a fan of him in the middle of the park, but i think this is his type of game and he would do ok.

I would like to see us go for the jugular on this one; get the ball to ronaldo as much as possible and have him run as cole constantly.

The big big question though, is can our midfield be creative enough to open up arsenals defense and actually create decent chances? It's all well and good kicking lumps out of them and stopping them from playing their slick passing game, but if we are going to win, we are going to have to do much more than that. You can be sure they will double up on ronaldo to stop him getting through, we are going to have to switch it up to take advantage of the space that gets left behind. RVN has looked sharp for holland, he hasnt looked that sharp for us this year, but i think thats because the midfield has not provided him with the service he needs.

Unless our midfield can get a creative grip as well as a physical grip on the midfield we will not beat them and may even lose to a counter attack goal.

Lets keep Rooney in our back pocket for this one - if we get desperete he's a great 'ace' to pull out for the second half.
 
Zippy considering you are still up, and I am completely stoned right now. What time is kick off tomorrow ? (GMT)

If i miss this game tomorrow there'll be tears
 
Motterman said:
Easy win for us.

All we have to do is play the Champions League music before kickoff.
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: or change the name of the ground for the day to VILLA PARK
 
Kinky Melinky said:
Zippy considering you are still up, and I am completely stoned right now. What time is kick off tomorrow ? (GMT)

If i miss this game tomorrow there'll be tears
Click to expand...

:lol: You cant be that stoned if your able to decipher GMT!!

The games on at 15:05 GMT (16:05 British time)
 
----------------------Carroll
G Neville-----Ferdinand-------Silv------Argie Nutter
Ronaldo----Irish Nutter-----Bleached Nutter----Giggs
------------------Scouse Nutter-------------------
----------------Ruud Van Nistelrooy----------------
 
If O'Shea starts we're screwed i tell ya, Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewed ;)
 
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