Harvetz costing Arsenal 3 times more than Martinelli in salary is the worst football crime in 2023.
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Pretty much. Exactly the type of thing United should be avoiding too
It’s hilarious how some people can’t understand that paying players based on their actual worth isn’t far superior to overpaying them and claiming that it’s normal based on their squad status.
By his criteria, Brandon Williams was underpaid because he kept Shaw out of the squad and was a starter player when he signed a new contract and hence deserves a pay within 100-200k a week.
Sure...my entire argument is that literally the last person to start for a team in a given position deserves to be immediately paid more than the person who started the previous game and so on and so forth. So well done, your Brandon Williams analogy is genius, it completely blows apart the concept that players should be paid based on their squad status/seniority.
The fact that you and other posters are mocking an approach to allocating wages that is literally used by virtually every sane club and/or company on the planet is telling. You are familiar with the term 'salary bracket'? You are familiar with the idea, for example, that a team leader earns more than a standard member of said team? Or that the middle manager earns more than the team leader? Or that the 'Head of' earns more than the middle manager?
You are aware that for many, many years under Gill and SAF, that United had a famously rigid wage structure that we wouldn't break for anybody?
In the basic World of people who don't understand anything about anything, everything is so easy isn't it. Everything is rubbish, everybody is stupid except for you. You'd just pay Antony £25,001 wouldn't you. That's genius, £1 a week more than his Ajax salary! Like it or lump it, give him a £1 more than he earnt there, and if he tries to negotiate, we walk away! That's how negotiations work, I know because I saw it on a film.
I have just presented a list of salaries at our four main rivals. You will see very clearly that the salaries we are paying are very much in-line with them. You can go back and forth quibbling whether Antony should be on £170K instead of £200K. Or whether Jesus should be on £265K. Or whether Havertz should be on £285K. Or whether Jack Grealish deserves £300K....but that really, really is not the point of this discussion at all. So what are you all moaning about?
The main (stupid) argument I keep seeing represented is that we're overpaying because the likes of Antony, Mount and Hojlund earnt less at their previous clubs. Did Rice earn £250K at West Ham? Did Villa pay Grealish £300K? Did Enzo get £305K at Benfica? Did van Dijk get £225K at Southampton?
So ask yourself again, what exactly are you moaning about? What exactly are you unhappy with? Or are you just moaning because that's what people do now? Moan about bloody everything!
I suspect it's because Martinelli hasn't signed a new deal recently - but I'd tend to agree that Havertz salary is slightly surprising. Again though, what it does reflect is that salaries are going up across the board. So new signings are always going to look comparatively 'expensive' as compared with players 3 years into a 5 year deal.
It's worth noting another thing in our favour is that the overwhelming majority of our first team players are now on long term contracts and won't be due a renewal for a while.
We did use to have a wage structure, but I think it was long gone before Gill. Roy Keane's bumper new contract in late 1999 changed everything.
I nearly mentioned Keane's stand-off with the club but didn't want to go off on a tangent. For sure over time the hardline approach softened.
Have you read what these people write and the way they attack anyone that dares question their favourite corporate clowns?
Please go back and see who's the one slating fans for raising doubts over these people's competence. There's this one guy here who's got a fan club and loves writing essays, only for us to go make him look like a mug time and again.
It's not my fault some posters are delusional and I don't care if they get offended when confronted with reality. Happened with OGS and hopefully it'll happen to these clowns once Qatar takes over.
Once Keano signed his new contract, everything changed and the rest of the stars - Giggs, Becks, etc - got bumper new contracts.
It had to have happened, to be fair. We just couldn't compete with the old wage structure. It was outdated and we were rather notorious for paying low wages.
We need the guys that are running Chelsea immediately 
Now that’s how you run a football club.
Now that’s how you run a football club.
Yes, that's the point I/we are making. Its not about having a slightly more balanced, nuanced opinion on the running of the club than the popular "everything is rubbish" counter-position.
We love Murtough. Of all the corporate suits in football, he is our favourite.
Some of us on here actually get together in the members club by the big Tesco outside Old Trafford in our "Murtough #1" shirts, sing little ditties in his honour and talk about how we can counter the cutting arguments of the rebel crew, led by the valiant Rightnr, who seem intent on bringing him down.
In fact, it's fair to say that if he were to leave the club, most of us pro-Murtough loyalists would follow him into his next position, whatever that might be. Could be another football club, could be an investment bank, could be a supermarket chain, that would be an interesting one!
Often times, we only watch the games in the hope of catching a passing glimpse of him in the stands as the camera pans across the Director's box.
Murtough, Murtough, Murtough
He's United's transfer supremo
Wheels and deals all day long
Whilst we're singing our song
And we follow wherever he gooooes!
How many players have we had that were genuinely one of the best players in the world in their position until their mid 30s? You're looking at a player already past his physical prime, and it's showing by how often he's been easily bypassed in the first 3 games.
We've had our fair share of players drop off a cliff at a relatively young age Matic, Sanchez, Van Persie, Rooney etc.
We need the guys that are running Chelsea immediately
Now that’s how you run a football club.
uprised that many here are still defending this man. He's literally downgraded DoF position into manager's lackey. we criticized woodward/judge for allowing managers to have absolute power in the transfer window yet this guy is doing even worse in that regard, where's the logic in that?
To put into perspective, Ronaldo, Sancho, Varane, Pogba all were big names (atleast on paper) when we signed them. Signing them is akin to signing Kane, Bellingham, hot names that we can only dream of to attract nowadays. Sure there were some daft decisions like DDG ones but we gave Antony 200K per week for christ sake.
To put into perspective, Ronaldo, Sancho, Varane, Pogba all were big names (atleast on paper) when we signed them. Signing them is akin to signing Kane, Bellingham, hot names that we can only dream of to attract nowadays. Sure there were some daft decisions like DDG ones but we gave Antony 200K per week for christ sake.
Don't hide behind someone else's behavior.
I'm also not talking about offending anyone. You'd be better off calling them and their opinions stupid and just pissing on each other's cereal. Just don't create factions.
I'm not hiding behind anyone, I'm calling out the blatant hypocrisy of these positive geniuses.
I've called their opinion delusional and for me that's not that different to stupid. Difference being is that it comes from a good place (we all want our team to win) but if that's used by these corporate incompetent cnuts to reduce the pressure from their constant failures, it's bad for the club.
Basically (and this is from Google), if the result of good intentions is a bad outcome, then whatever the intent, it's kind of irrelevant.
Ok, so overpaying them on the initial contract is ok, but overpaying them when they’re actually good and in their prime isn’t.
Brilliant logic there.
How about just fecking paying them for their actual worth like a well run club would?
Ah I see. I thought you were complaining about Casemiros wages.
What's Qatar got to do with it? Besides I can't see that happening
How much do you think Mount is on? And you genuinely believe he wouldn't get similar at Liverpool or Arsenal if he had chosen them over Man Utd?
I highly doubt the Sancho earning 350k/week stat. From what I've seen, he's earning 250k/week + bonuses.
We'll never know for sure but if you use the same source for each player/club it should be a level(ish) playing field.
Plus, we don't know the make-up of any of the salaries...one common gripe seems to be Antony's reported £200K per week, but for all we know it could be heavily incentivised.
Good job in keeping Maguire and Mctominay. Murtough and Fletcher deserve a raise. Does Murtough also has kids that he wants the club to buy like Fletcher?
I'm absolutely sure the base salaries are lower than the reported numbers.
Sure. Which is why every-time we try to sell players an issue arises around wages.
I dont know why this club even needs a dof. Just hire a foot massager for manager and be done with it
All the blame lumbered towards the manager when the real individual who should be in charge of the teams direction is Murtough. It's absolutely despicable that on the premise of last season United have signed the players they have, who aren't bad individuals but seemingly haven't moved the needle with the overall quality of the first team.
Murtough only compounds the issue of the senseless ownership of the Glazers which filtrates itself to his position with his lack of decisiveness in his role. People keep mentioning the structure as being the issue when the man in charge himself has moved parts around to alleviate the poor experiences from Woodward, yet the club are reaping the exact same fruit ? It's nothing but incompetence of the highest order. People can focus on the manager but ought to look at his supposed superior.
Murtough only compounds the issue of the senseless ownership of the Glazers which filtrates itself to his position with his lack of decisiveness in his role. People keep mentioning the structure as being the issue when the man in charge himself has moved parts around to alleviate the poor experiences from Woodward, yet the club are reaping the exact same fruit ? It's nothing but incompetence of the highest order. People can focus on the manager but ought to look at his supposed superior.
After this summer, the structure and personnel don’t seem click and work out. At least, it doesn’t seem so by now.
This is what the club told us when he was promoted;
“John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.”
So this guy helped get us to the shit show we are, helped build the recruitment department that was subsequently deemed not fit for purpose. Instead of being held accountable he’s been absolved of any blame and given chance to do it all over again. Unsurprisingly it’s another shit show and I have no idea why anyone expected anything different.
I laughed at "strong foundations already in place"
Surely you have to let those players get on the pitch together for a few games before deciding that and using it as a criticism?
You were not alone in that
I know it's all written by some random PR employee but there are limits to how daft you can be.I think they really believe that. I heard a journo recently say that United feel the criticism directed at them is over the top. I'd love to hear them explain why the team has struggled in recent years.
No-one within United in recent years should have been put in charge of recruitment. It's obvious they're bad at it. They should have hired the best from elsewhere. Instead we promoted our own proven incompetents.
It doesn't help when we buy them injured.
Knee jerk buys. No transfer strategy. Its entirely our own fault buying injured players.
Should we have avoided Hojlund and Amrabat because of their injuries? Gone elsewhere?
Come on, Murtough fans, come out and defend this clown. I'm waiting
It is comical, especially if you look at the transfer windows that proceeded that statement.
The thing is when he was appointed Woodward was tiptoeing around Ole like he was walking on eggshells. The club was at pains to stress that the manager would have a veto and that Murtough wasn't Ole's boss. So he was emasculated from the word go and he is just enjoying his salary and cushy post.
Enter ETH with his conditions around recruitment which Arnold and Murtough inexplicably agree to despite the fact that the former is coming from a vastly inferior league and would obviously have a tough period adjusting. We consequently wasted a summer chasing a player who had no interest in coming to us and ended up panic buying Casemiro, reverting to the short-termism that's cost us before.
It's like our football department is on autopilot, there is zero leadership and no accountability. No wonder these jokers didn't take kindly to a straight talker like Rangnick's who knew what we needed and how to do it. Letting him walk out of the door to appease lazy players and incompetent directors abdicating their leadership roles is exactly why we are where we were in 2021, 2019 and 2016.
He’s on the pints tonight no doubt.
Murtough madness.
cnut