Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

It's a very positive move by the club and i'm glad they've gone the internal route. I've been saying on here for years that our recruitment team has been marginalized by the managers post Fergie when it came to recruiting players as per several reports from the Manchester press pack. Mourinho according to reports was using his own personal scouts to sign players which frustrated the likes of Murtough and Marcel Bout due to the managers unwillingness to listen to them, which caused a disconnect between the scouts and manager which can never be a good thing for the club if the manager is only interested in the here and now. It seems the appointment of Murtough as the head of football operations gives the club scouts significant power to shape the development of the club in the mid to longterm. The club scouts haven't had such power since Fergie was at the club, when he only had his brother and Jim Lawlor as the only two full-time scouts at the club who were supported by a number of part time scouts which included Jimmy Ryan who was on the coaching staff.

Rangnick, Campos etc have done good jobs in the same field but they've done their work at clubs that provided a stepping stone for young hot prospects who they enticed by the lure of playing first team football. Those players would then be sold on for a tidy profit in the coming years. Does Leipzig have better scouts than United? I would confidently say no, they don't. But their model of luring young players in by offering first team opportunities at a very early age, so they can then sell for a tidy profit in years to come is something we can't compete with, if the player and his family prioritize development above all else.

Also appointing Murtough in a position of power will hopefully better prepare us in the eventuality the head coach is sacked, which will provide stability and continuity, instead of the next manager culling the squad which has been a huge detriment to the club.

I saw your previous comment yesterday, a rational voice :)

I agree its a good step and hopefully will help align transfer strategy with youth development.

People are missing the fact that Murtough has been key in youth development and recruitment. Whilst Fletch is a youth graduate himself. It indicates that youth is going to play a large part in our plans going forward.
 
Seems like the Athletic just forgot McKenna on their first draft of that hierarchy:

ManchesterUnited_Hierarchy_2-1536x1116.png
 
Woodward promoted his long-time poodle so nobody bothers him anymore asking about DoF appointment. If we were serious club, we'd be getting Edwin van der Sar. The huge gap in quality between VdS and Murtough is the same size of the gap we have from being a well-run major club.


Only insofar as they make money, but mostly - no.
For fecks sake, Van der Sar is Ajax's CEO, i.e., Ed Woodward, HE IS NOT THEIR DOF.
 
Top? Obviously not. I would have thought it would make sense to report to a board, rather then one individual (unless it was the owner).

As an example, the person in an equivalent job at Chelsea would report to Abramovic, not someone else in between them.

Woodward (non football background) is still going to have the final say on football related decisions. Although you would hope that he is now going to be better informed by this change.

If you think that person directly report to Abramovic, you clearly dont know what you're talking about.

Google the Chelsea board...
 
What qualifications does Fletcher have, other than 'former player'?

Worked with Michael Owen, Steve McManaman and Glenn Hoddle on BT Sport

He’s been at the club for 12 years+ and is the link between the youth team and first team, nothing to do with transfers whatsoever, he’s more than qualified than most for his position
 
What qualifications does Fletcher have, other than 'former player'?

Part of his job will be selling the club to prospective players, so I think he's pretty well qualified having come through the youth ranks and made it to the first team despite most of the odds being against him.
 
Part of his job will be selling the club to prospective players, so I think he's pretty well qualified having come through the youth ranks and made it to the first team despite most of the odds being against him.

It’s got that Zidane feel about it. Well know around the World Darren Fletcher, trying to sell our club to players who have never heard of him.
 
Yeah I bet that's part of it too. In the Telegraph article it mentioned Woodward getting calls about transfers when he's not involved in that at all until the end and it created a mess. Woodward was having to do Judge's job because people didn't read his announcements that he's not involved. Also, Judge's previous title didn't point out him to be the one people should be talking to.

Yeah, I'm kind of struggling to believe that any business in the world will solve this communication problem by changing the title of a senior management member to something that is somewhat belittling.

Since no other club has a director of negotiations, I wonder how we ever manage to find the right people to talk to. Maybe it actually explains some of our transfer dealings!
 
It's a very positive move by the club and i'm glad they've gone the internal route. I've been saying on here for years that our recruitment team has been marginalized by the managers post Fergie when it came to recruiting players as per several reports from the Manchester press pack. Mourinho according to reports was using his own personal scouts to sign players which frustrated the likes of Murtough and Marcel Bout due to the managers unwillingness to listen to them, which caused a disconnect between the scouts and manager which can never be a good thing for the club if the manager is only interested in the here and now. It seems the appointment of Murtough as the head of football operations gives the club scouts significant power to shape the development of the club in the mid to longterm. The club scouts haven't had such power since Fergie was at the club, when he only had his brother and Jim Lawlor as the only two full-time scouts at the club who were supported by a number of part time scouts which included Jimmy Ryan who was on the coaching staff.

Rangnick, Campos etc have done good jobs in the same field but they've done their work at clubs that provided a stepping stone for young hot prospects who they enticed by the lure of playing first team football. Those players would then be sold on for a tidy profit in the coming years. Does Leipzig have better scouts than United? I would confidently say no, they don't. But their model of luring young players in by offering first team opportunities at a very early age, so they can then sell for a tidy profit in years to come is something we can't compete with, if the player and his family prioritize development above all else.

Also appointing Murtough in a position of power will hopefully better prepare us in the eventuality the head coach is sacked, which will provide stability and continuity, instead of the next manager culling the squad which has been a huge detriment to the club.
Great post!
 
If that Athletic hierarchy is to be trusted, the management team responsible for signing players at United includes:
  • The Football Director
  • The Manager
  • The Director of Football Negotiations
  • The Head of Recruitment Operations
  • The Managers Personal Scout
  • The Head of Global Scouting
  • The Technical Chief Scout
  • The Chief Scout
That's without considering any involvement Woodward, Butt or Fletcher might have, or the teams of people who fall under each of these positions.

Is it any bloody wonder we take so long "preparing bids"? It probably takes 3 months before everyone has replied to the initial email! I imagine it's like a game of Chinese whispers where sometime in 2015, somebody recommended signing Virgil Van Dijk, and by the time it had bounced around between the various Heads of this and Directors of that, we ended up signing Donny Van de Beek last summer.

It explains a lot.
 
For fecks sake, Van der Sar is Ajax's CEO, i.e., Ed Woodward, HE IS NOT THEIR DOF.
Settle down, no need to yell. If I am the CEO of my small town and am offered the job of being vice-Mayor of London do I consider that a demotion because I am going from a mayor to the second in charge? Unlikely.

Doesn't matter how much history Ajax has, it is a tiny club that buys almost nobody and entirely relies on homegrown talent + selling players. They had to sell almost all their best players when they made it far in Champions League. Would never be the case for a major club. Whatever history they have, Man United has more history and is one of the biggest clubs in the world. Let me explain it to you in another way: Edwin van der Sar's salary as CEO at Ajax is about $308,464.00. That is less than a week's salary for some of our players, surely we can pay him more than $1M a year as director of football, and he gets a chance to turn around a huge club, the one he really cares about, too. Sounds a bit more tempting now?

Bottomline, nobody knows if he would take the job except for him, but it is far from a crazy idea and he was top candidate for many when Director of Football position for United was suggested, not something I came up with.
 
Settle down, no need to yell. If I am the CEO of my local Town and am offered the job of being vice-Mayor of London do I consider that a demotion because it wasn't a mayor? Doesn't matter how much history Ajax has, Man United has more history and is one of the biggest clubs in the world. Let me explain it to you in another way: Edwin van der Sar's salary as CEO at Ajax is about $308,464.00. That is less than a week's salary for some of our players, surely we can pay him more than $1M a year as director of football, and he gets a chance to turn around a huge club, the one he really cares about, too. Sounds a bit more tempting now?

Bottomline, nobody knows if he would take the job except for him, but it is far from a crazy idea and he was top candidate for many when Director of Football position for United was suggested, not something I came up with.
Of course it's a demotion, Ajax aren't some nobody non-league team.
 
Yeah, I'm kind of struggling to believe that any business in the world will solve this communication problem by changing the title of a senior management member to something that is somewhat belittling.

Since no other club has a director of negotiations, I wonder how we ever manage to find the right people to talk to. Maybe it actually explains some of our transfer dealings!
Other clubs the CEO/ DoF does the negotiations. That's not the case at Man Utd. So your point falls flat.
 
Ole's assistants are an uninspiring bunch on paper, no clue how the players feel about them. Surely he could use a top notch assistant ala Queiroz to SAF. Would certainly help Ole preparing for and adjustments within matches I'd wager. Might also help round him into a better manager. Believe SAF praised the tactical knowledge Queiroz brought.
 
Ole's assistants are an uninspiring bunch on paper, no clue how the players feel about them. Surely he could use a top notch assistant ala Queiroz to SAF. Would certainly help Ole preparing for and adjustments within matches I'd wager. Might also help round him into a better manager. Believe SAF praised the tactical knowledge Queiroz brought.

Yep. Solskjaer seems keen to do things the Fergie way - hiring a top first team coach to handle training, is one aspect of SAF's approach that I wish Ole would actually copy.
 
Ole's assistants are an uninspiring bunch on paper, no clue how the players feel about them. Surely he could use a top notch assistant ala Queiroz to SAF. Would certainly help Ole preparing for and adjustments within matches I'd wager. Might also help round him into a better manager. Believe SAF praised the tactical knowledge Queiroz brought.
Prior to joining Utd Queirozs "top notch" experience was managing NY/NJ MetroStars, Nagoya Grampus Eight, United Arab Emirates & South Africa :confused:
 
It’s got that Zidane feel about it. Well know around the World Darren Fletcher, trying to sell our club to players who have never heard of him.

Dont project your knowledge of footballers on to other people, especially professional footballers.

Google exists as well btw, if they’re unsure of who Fletcher is all they have to do is google his name before they speak to him to see that he’s won everything there is to win as a player.
 
Prior to joining Utd Queirozs "top notch" experience was managing NY/NJ MetroStars, Nagoya Grampus Eight, United Arab Emirates & South Africa :confused;

SAF rated him enough to bring him aboard with other assistants already in the fold. He was highly rated around Europe in the 90s from what I've read. Should have been given the US job in 1998 after Sampson resigned but USSF went with an American flavor, per usual. Nonetheless, he proved himself top notch and I don't see where I mentioned he was top notch before arriving. SAF must have rated though, shrugs.

I see you left out his stints with Portugal and Sporting CP but carry on.
 
Yep. Solskjaer seems keen to do things the Fergie way - hiring a top first team coach to handle training, is one aspect of SAF's approach that I wish Ole would actually copy.

I suspect Ole will do this once he wins a few medals. He has his own ideas for now and if they fail, then he will revert to Plan B.
 
Seems like the Athletic just forgot McKenna on their first draft of that hierarchy:

ManchesterUnited_Hierarchy_2-1536x1116.png


Prior to this, Matt Judge was reporting directly to Woodward and what's Ed's remit? Finance. So that means a transfer was judged on the prism of financial/bottom-line.

Now that Judge is reporting to a footballing guy, a transfer will be judge from the prism of a footballing perspective. How the player fits into the team and his importance. I think this actually makes Matt Judge's role and hopefully success easier
 
SAF rated him enough to bring him aboard with other assistants already in the fold. He was highly rated around Europe in the 90s from what I've read. Should have been given the US job in 1998 after Sampson resigned but USSF went with an American flavor, per usual. Nonetheless, he proved himself top notch and I don't see where I mentioned he was top notch before arriving. SAF must have rated though, shrugs.

I see you left out his stints with Portugal and Sporting CP but carry on
.

They were, what? 10 years prior to him coming to Utd?, so given the path he took afterwards they don't really seem relevant.

Roberto Di Matteo won the Champions League with Chelsea 10 years ago, should we hire him?
 
Prior to this, Matt Judge was reporting directly to Woodward and what's Ed's remit? Finance. So that means a transfer was judged on the prism of financial/bottom-line.

Now that Judge is reporting to a footballing guy, a transfer will be judge from the prism of a footballing perspective. How the player fits into the team and his importance. I think this actually makes Matt Judge's role and hopefully success easier

We also know Fletcher will be working alongside Judge too, as part of his role involves selling the football side of the club to potential signings. Which negates Evra's complaint about us sending lawyers to deal with players instead of football people and (presumably) will make Judge's role easier too.
 
So we didn't actually hire anybody new or bring new ideas or new experience to club, we shuffled staff that were already here.

Except Ed has no power to offer Phil Jones new contract now. This is not just shuffling staff, staffs who don’t have the power to implement their idea before now get the chance to do it.
 
They were, what? 10 years prior to him coming to Utd?, so given the path he took afterwards they don't really seem relevant.

Roberto Di Matteo won the Champions League with Chelsea 10 years ago, should we hire him?

Lighten up, Francis. It was just a passioned opinion on adding more quality to the coaching ranks. It was not a slight on Ole.
 
A step in the right direction regarding the DoF, however a little disappointed that we as one of the biggest clubs in European football havent gone out a brought in a top drawer DoF one that specialises in that role. However as I say a step in the right direction and hopefully a successful appointment :)
 
So we didn't actually hire anybody new or bring new ideas or new experience to club, we shuffled staff that were already here.

Yep.

How you feel about this entirely depends on how well you think the restructuring of our academy and scouting system have gone in recent years.

If you think it's been a success (as the club do) then it's presumably a positive that the apparent architect of it is being given more responsibility and authority to continue developing the club in that direction.

If you don't think it has been particularly successful then we've just moved people who were already here around to little effect. Though even then you might think that surrounding our chief negotiator with more support is a plus.

The appointment is fundamentally based on the idea that the club was already on the right path and just needed to accelerate that rather than needing to bring in any outsiders to change things. You either buy that or you don't.
 
Lighten up, Francis. It was just a passioned opinion on adding more quality to the coaching ranks. It was not a slight on Ole.
It wasn't really though was it, I mean, you literally referred to Michael Carrick and Mike Phelan... who'd both won multiple titles as players/coaches at Utd.... as "uninspiring" when compared to Carlos Queiroz, who'd won the square root of feck all before he joined Utd.... you seem a bit lost.
 
Could you give us any example of big clubs that hires 'specialist' DOF and become very successful? The only two I remember in recent times are Arsenal that hired Mislintat and Roma that hired Monchi and don't think those two are success stories

So you think promoting someone who have successfully revamped our scouting network and academy to higher position in the club is not actual change we needed?

Most of the top European clubs have been structured that way for a long time now, even in England I remember Ancelotti saying no club was ran like United, where the manager had so much control, he was their to coach not conduct transfers, since Fergie retired we've been lagging behind in this regard.

No, I think the change we need was a DOF with experience in the actual transfer market to replace Judge in getting the actual deals done, not just being able to identify talent.
 
Positive news. The more football people the better. Let Woody handle the business side as much as possible.
 
I find it interesting that they call him "football director" and not "director of football". Kind of like being "assistant to the trailer park supervisor" and not "assistant trailer park supervisor"...
Pedantic and not actually very interesting

So not a real DOF, huh? Just Ed proxy for when things get out of control.
What gives you this impression? Isn't DoF always below the CEO/President at every football club? They don't actually run the entire club you do realize?
 
So we didn't actually hire anybody new or bring new ideas or new experience to club, we shuffled staff that were already here.

Not necessary -- when Liverpool changed from Shankly and promoted Paisley, the playing style and philosophy changed dramatically. And equally successful outcome.
 
It wasn't really though was it, I mean, you literally referred to Michael Carrick and Mike Phelan... who'd both won multiple titles as players/coaches at Utd.... as "uninspiring" when compared to Carlos Queiroz, who'd won the square root of feck all before he joined Utd.... you seem a bit lost.

You got me there, big guy. Queiroz was a shit hire cause he had won nada before United while Carrick and Phelan are the most accomplished assistants out there, worthy of nothing but praise. How dare I, the lost poster I am, suggest otherwise. Thanks for your concern, citizen, I will jump on that proper road now.