Of course we can. He has 50% voting power on player recruitment with Ten Hag having the other 50%. This mess is on them both. He’s made a catalog of errors since his appointment and desperately needs replacing before the next transfer window.
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
I suspect none of us know what the actual power structure is. In all likelihood, the only voice that matters is Joel Glazer and he probably listens to whoever he wants to, which in itself destroys any possibility of building a systematic process with checks and balances to align with a strategic vision. It all feels very ad hoc.
In this day and age giving full power over transfers to a manager is suicide. Managers have a short shelf life unless they wildly succeed, which means they will ultimately buy with a “win now” mindset that doesn’t help the club from a 3-5 year strategy perspective. That’s why we’ve ended up with so many 29-33 year old signings, who inevitably fall off a cliff 1-3 years after we sign them.
We spent massive money on a 30 year old Casemiro and built the midfield around him, then overplayed the feck out of him. Tragic stuff. Casemiro is the player you buy when you have two fundamental midfield pieces in places who are in that 22-27 age bracket, entering or in their prime, and he comes in to an energetic, well oiled machine and provides stability, experience and leadership behind them. You don’t bring him in, at his stage of his career and build the midfield around him. It’s arse backwards.
This year we attempted to correct that by bringing in the third midfielder in that right age and energy bracket, but it ended up being Mason Mount. A player who I like a lot but a player who is not a natural #8. He’s understandably struggled and then we’ve dropped him. Madness. If ETH believes as strongly as he seemed to that MM was the key number 8 he needed, then he needs to commit to the transition and play him there every game to get him accustomed to the role. Expect some ups and downs along the way.
Instead he’s ditched that plan very early and now what? A 55m bench warming albatross? How can a vision be that fragile and be worth anything? Loads of fans (I wasn’t one of them) said MM was the wrong player. I trusted the manager’s vision, I thought I saw in Mount the player ETH did - and tbh I still do - but somehow we’ve now reverted two steps backwards to putting McTominay in. Who ironically has been our best performer of late.
In this day and age giving full power over transfers to a manager is suicide. Managers have a short shelf life unless they wildly succeed, which means they will ultimately buy with a “win now” mindset that doesn’t help the club from a 3-5 year strategy perspective. That’s why we’ve ended up with so many 29-33 year old signings, who inevitably fall off a cliff 1-3 years after we sign them.
We spent massive money on a 30 year old Casemiro and built the midfield around him, then overplayed the feck out of him. Tragic stuff. Casemiro is the player you buy when you have two fundamental midfield pieces in places who are in that 22-27 age bracket, entering or in their prime, and he comes in to an energetic, well oiled machine and provides stability, experience and leadership behind them. You don’t bring him in, at his stage of his career and build the midfield around him. It’s arse backwards.
This year we attempted to correct that by bringing in the third midfielder in that right age and energy bracket, but it ended up being Mason Mount. A player who I like a lot but a player who is not a natural #8. He’s understandably struggled and then we’ve dropped him. Madness. If ETH believes as strongly as he seemed to that MM was the key number 8 he needed, then he needs to commit to the transition and play him there every game to get him accustomed to the role. Expect some ups and downs along the way.
Instead he’s ditched that plan very early and now what? A 55m bench warming albatross? How can a vision be that fragile and be worth anything? Loads of fans (I wasn’t one of them) said MM was the wrong player. I trusted the manager’s vision, I thought I saw in Mount the player ETH did - and tbh I still do - but somehow we’ve now reverted two steps backwards to putting McTominay in. Who ironically has been our best performer of late.
Joel glazer : the real director of football at Manchester United. Little goblin that he is.
We should have specialists in place to handle recruitment, as most teams do. Giving the manager a stack of money and telling him to sign whomever he wants is lunacy.
Did Joel Glazer choose Mount as our midfield signing? Was it his choice to think that Mount was the right replacement for Fred?
You’re on your own there. Most people on here (and YouTube etc.) are so certain of it that they must actually be present at the management meetings, or at least have full access to the minutes
I think the whole of your post is 100% spot on. It appears to me that a lot of our signings are driven by agents and selling clubs rather than anyone at United.
So you’re saying agents and selling clubs pick who we sign, over our director of football and manager?You’re on your own there. Most people on here (and YouTube etc.) are so certain of it that they must actually be present at the management meetings, or at least have full access to the minutes
I think the whole of your post is 100% spot on. It appears to me that a lot of our signings are driven by agents and selling clubs rather than anyone at United.
Pick? Not really.
Make suggestions? Tell us what a great idea it would be for us to sign the player they have available? Absolutely.
And if those suggestions are enough to convince our DOF or manager to sign that player, then that’s a highly critical flaw on their behalf.
Those power dynamics also differ if you consider who has the propensity to veto a transfer. I think where we've end up is Murtough largely not having any significant issues (or is easily convinced) with ETH's suggestions so has allowed them to happen. We don't know the extent of how it works in reality but what's clear is ETH's influence has been significant and Murtough has enabled these signings.
I agree, that in itself has proven he’s not fit for the job.
Definitely.
People who know him personally in the US are saying he will relish being in charge of the marketing element of the club and leaving football matters to Ratcliffe. He supposedly likes the whole super-league, commercial opportunities and interactive media angle of running the club. Thinks he's very good at it too.
The £250m is probably going towards setting up a football board and transfers (whether it be buying players or paying players off so they feck off out the club, much like Arsenal did).
That would put us in breach of the rules, so probably not. You might be kidding though, hard to tell on here.
The club did that. The last two summers they've had in place people who are experienced in negotiations to handle those with Murtough also stepping in but there was personnel for that. There was also an assistant DoF in place as well as new people hired/promoted in other recruitment/scouting roles.
The club did put in place a structure. Whether that worked or not is the question. Could still prove true but time's running out on that and ETH needs to make it work.
We'll likely be doing a third restructure in as many summer windows if/when Murtough/Arnold goes.
Not when the managers fail because of the DoF's dereliction of duty. He freakin hired the guy and shouldn't pretend the situation doesn't directly point back at him. He even botched the Ole-Rangninck transition.
He said he didn't look for replacement candidates till Ole left because he thought it would be disrespectful. I get the virtue behind it but you have a job to do. Duty over mates. Then there was the Rangnick mess of a hiring, the discarding of everything Rangnick advised so the pains of his stint as manager went to waste. Literally everything Rangnick advised has played out before our very eyes so common sense apparently wasn't common for Murtough. The FDJ situation was horrible, we hired a law firm to help but any DoF with any amount of legal knowledge knows that wasn't the kind of dispute to bet on, or expect to be resolved anytime soon. Barca will probably even face a class action lawsuit for unpaid wages once they are all retired. They said we had assurances from his agent, "agent in keeping their options opened" shocker, hook, line and sinker. Then allowing ETH's incredibly primitive transfer strategy of sourcing all our signings from one league. I guess that was probably still more global knowledge than Murtough knew. Or he would have known to intervene from the very first window.
Contrary to what is now said the failure didn't start recently. It was there last season. Yes! even with our league finish Murtough had already begun to fail. We were just rich enough to apply a 150m band aid and it's is just now coming off.
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It’s been well documented that the glazers held Fergie back in the market and that’s where the rot started to set in. Since then they have clearly meddled with their dithering on targets and insisting on free transfers and keeping sub par players for book value. They also let the academy slide way behind. Sounds like a really poor DOF to me
Expecting there to be a big shift if either of the two are acquired which will successfully see the end of John Murtough's time in his present position.
Dougie Freedman is being written off however Palace are placed 15th in the league for clubs with the lowest NET spend in 5 years. They have done remarkably well with their model. Also have to consider that Parish has put the majority of the clubs resources in totally redeveloping the academy and facilities infrastructure near their training ground, the landscape of the changes has been significant.
I would have liked Edwards, but I don't really have a strong preference either way. Any of these will do. Can't possibly be any worse.
Ed and Arnold are gone. Next should be Murtough.
We need proper football people to run the club. Get all the Glazers stooges out.
Hope the next DOF comes in with proper track records to impose major changes.
No more signings like Antony, Mount, Varane, Casemeiro and the likes.
We need proper football people to run the club. Get all the Glazers stooges out.
Hope the next DOF comes in with proper track records to impose major changes.
No more signings like Antony, Mount, Varane, Casemeiro and the likes.
Dislike him and want him to be fired if you want but Murtough is a proper football person. Also, I don't care if the CEO is a football person.
A proper football person? What is exactly do you mean by that? Gary Neville is a proper football person, Michael Owen is a proper football person. Lets give them a crack?
He might be a football person, but he isn't a DOF, never has been a DOF and is clearly out of his depth.
His appointment was much like Ole's. Vastly under qualified for the job.
And again, why would you not want a CEO who has a background of being a CEO in football?
Tell us why Fletcher?
Again, why Fletcher?
He's not under qualified for the job as a DOF. Maybe not for the level of a club like Man Utd but his resume is comparable to a lot of similar people in that role in their first jobs.
Let's not start being hysterical. It's a ridiculous argument to say that a person who has been in roles that are football focused and not finance focused is not a football person. And he's had equivalent roles to others in his experience before being appointed to this similar position.
Enough said. Thanks.
Guy on the right looks like this before he got the job, imagine how he’ll look after he’s on the job.
To this day I still don't know the name of a guy who was pictured alongside Murtough in an article (i dont have the link anymore). I thought that was Murthough and Murthough was Richard Arnold.
Exactly. Being qualified to do a job for a small business doesn’t make you qualified for the same role at an MNC.
But the club sure loves giving inexperienced people roles with huge responsibilities and wondering why standards are slipping despite spending much more.
I don’t disagree with getting sone experience in on the football side but it’s not right that an inexperienced person cannot do it
for example David Gill was entirely in finance jobs before becoming finance director at United, and fell his way upwards. He and Fergie together proved quite a team
The DoF should be putting in place a strong scouting and recruitment team, and then backing them at least as much, if not more, than the manager when it comes to which players to sign. Obviously the manager should have some say, but if he wants to spend a huge amount on a transfer while the scouting team are saying that that player has significant weaknesses and provides a list of players who they believe are more likely to succeed and are available for a much smaller fee, then I know which one the DoF should be listening to.
The one defence that I do have for Murtough is that it takes time to build that scouting network and player analysis database, so I can somewhat understand him relying too heavily on ETH in the short-term. But that reliance should have been decreasing every season, and we haven't really seen any evidence for that happening yet
Usually the DoF actually decides on the squad and is superior to the manager. Of course both should agree on what kind of players to sign, but the ultimate responsibility should be at the DoF, not the manager. This ensures a clear split, the DoF is responsible for the quality of the squad, the manager is responsible for getting the squad to perform. So if you get bad results, you can analyze who of the two failed at his job and only fire him - DoF for bad squad, manager for underperforming team.
Txiki Begiristain, City's DoF, had no experience when he was appointed as DoF for Barcelona. He was a former Barcelona player and was working as a television commentator.
Experience and proven track record are great when the organization is not doing so hot, but not this massive prerequisite everywhere anytime.
Similar would have been said of Edwards at Liverpool before he became their sporting director. Murtough may have been a terrible choice but if you go purely by his job previous job roles, it wasn't a crazy choice on paper.
The moment EtH demanded full control over transfers, or any type of control except making some recommendations, was the moment Murtough should have ended the interview and look somewhere else.
It seems that all our managers want complete control which is fascinating considering that no other manager has that anywhere else. Which really makes you wonder why we need murtough in the first place given the circumstances
He is supposed to be a technical director and is responsible for the types of player we recruit and that they are aligned with the philosophy and direction of the club. In 2 years he's done a shite job and is obviously a yes man to Murtough.
No he’s not, his job is to help with recruitment of the youth team and see them transition from reserves to first team, which Garnacho, Mainoo, Hannibal and Elanga all have in recent years.