Classic case of misdirected anger.
Manchester United fans plan anti-Glazer protest if club fails to make world-class signings
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Would entirely depend on what they were sanctioned to spend & any business owner succeeds or fails on the people they employ!
So to say they cant be blamed is wrong, Ed Woodie is their appointment, as was Moyes. Van Gaal has identified the players he wants & so far the club have purchased his 2nd choice for left side centre back!
And the squad has been underinvested in for years, all this no value in the market crap!
How do we now it wasn't Fergie who was reluctant? By plenty of accounts he was unwilling to spend big on a single player, the main reason why we didn't end up with Hazard is because we didn't want to pay agent fee - Fergie's decision in all likelihood and it was widely praised at the time. Last season we had people tell us that what holds us back is that we are extremely dignified in the transfer market, not willing to pay agent fees and such, suddenly a season of dross last year and it's not our dignity but Glazer's lack of will that is doing it to us.
The first time we needed money to rebuild the squad to remain competitive they have made over €200m available to two new managers. That is an insane amount of money.
£18m on Young the very same Summer City bought David Silva for £26m. £7m on Bebe the Summer before Vidal joined Juventus for £8m and Dortmund signed Gundogan for £6m. £28m for Fellaini the Summer before Chelsea sign Fabregas for £27m. The list goes on and on, our scouting has been absolutely abysmal in the last few years and we have drowned serious amount of money on players who weren't good enough and players we didn't need.
When we really missed the trick was 2009-11 period when Ferguson kept going on about value while we had £80m from Ronaldo transfer sitting in the bank - it could have got us Silva (£26m), Aguero (£34m), Vidal (£8m) and then Benatia in the last two years (£11m) if we were only able to spot any of them. Benatia is far fetched because we don't often scout Italian market and he wasn't that proven at Udinese (even though clearly talent was there), Vidal, Aguero and Silva were all pretty much certain to turn out successful and we did not go for any of them. Crazy thing is we envy Juventus' midfield and admit Pogba-Vidal combination is pretty much as good as it gets and we had one of them and could have had the other for mere £8m. We could have had a midfield of Vidal and (fit) Gundogan for £15m.
At least you didn't say Pigba.I honestly believe Fergie was tight in transfer market at the end of his reign because he could win nearly everything with very little budget and wanted to trim down the debt to make it easier for the next manager when he retired. You might call it speculation but it's what i believe, he did it for the club. But the little the club did spend i admit wasn't on quality players and i don't know if it entirely Fergies fault but at the end of the day we now have to spend big on quality to catch up.
Disregarding the past and looking at now Chelsea for example last season came third and bought 2 quality players we came 7th and have only bought 3 players with potential. See what i'm getting at?
I can really see how this could be true. The fact that we have already spent over £150m since Ferguson departed certainly points to that.
I still believe we would have finished a lot higher last season and completed much better transfers with Mourinho in charge. For starters we would have probably got Cesc.
The same could be said about PSG and Monaco but tbh they are in way better state than us. The decisions made by the football people since 09 have cost us dearly and to, be frank, some of the border on insanity, in hindsight though but some blunders were clear even before the players landed here. People were dead against the Young transfer, same as the Fellaini one whilst we afforded too many chances to likes of Anderson and did nothing to mitigate the loss of Hargreaves and Fletcher. From 09 we have signed Valencia, Young, Hernandez, Smalling, Kagawa, RvP, De Gea, Zaha, Fellaini and Mata but only three or four at a stretch are what you would consider to have grown to be key players worthy of a team with our ambitions and that is before you consider Tosic, Obertan and Bebe.
Yes the Glazers should have spent more but it's undeniable that we habe wasted a lot more than what would have been enough to build a strong side from the base of what we already had in the side.
if we sign Di Maria & Blind to join Rojo, Herrera, Shaw, then I will be happy enough with the summer spending tbh.
The best signing is LVG. It all comes from the manager. We only have to look towards Ferguson for that. He moulded teams in his image and LVG will do the same. But it will take quite a while.
I think he was trying to build a new core of young English talent to leave for the next manager, however these players, Smalling, Jones, Young, Powell, Zaha and Cleveley have not stepped up. Whoever said we didn't spend much in Fergie's latter years, those listed above were in or around £55m, that's on young English talent alone, not to mention the big fee for an older player in RVP, Buttner and Henriquez for another £10m all the while we've brought in barely any transfer fees from selling players.
So, Fellaini now injured as well as Carrick. Leaving us with Herrera, Fletcher, Cleverley and Anderson.
Surely there is no way we won't sign a CM
Surely there is no way we won't sign a CM
So Rio, Vidic and Evra are replaced by Shaw Rojo and Blind......
And? Shaw had the potential to be better than Evra was in his prime and is probably already as good as current Evra if not better. Rojo is better than current Ferdinand though his chances of reaching Ferdinand & Vidic prime level are rather slim. Blind would be a holding midfielder for us and he is probably better than what we have there.
a past it & injured Ferdinand replaced by a young, energetic & coming to their prime Blind
an injured and ageing Vidic replaced by a player in the world cup team of the tournament about to come into their prime Rojo
an inconsistent & ageing Evra replaced by one of the best potential stars in years in Shaw
yes, clearly an awful set of business
I don't understand why SAF didn't bring in any quality players towards the end of his error, with a ageing squad. At the same time the owners/CEO should be thinking ahead and override the managers views as the club is bigger then anyone to secure the future of the team.
We are now in deep trouble, another season out of the Champions League and we could find our selfs below the likes of Everton and Spurs!!
We are now in deep trouble, another season out of the Champions League and we could find our selfs below the likes of Everton and Spurs!!
if we don't sign at least one more defender & at least one more midfielder then there is absolutely ZERO chance we will finish in the top four this season.
heck I am starting to think the Glazers are happy enough with the club coming top 8 so long as the revenue comes in from the commercial side of things, the lack of transfers certainly suggests that anyway.
heck I am starting to think the Glazers are happy enough with the club coming top 8 so long as the revenue comes in from the commercial side of things, the lack of transfers certainly suggests that anyway.
CEO and owners are not directors of football. Their knowledge about football can be limited, they employ people to make decisions on the football side - Ferguson happened to be both the manager and the person resposinble for transfers as we didn't have DoF.
You cannot expect Woodward (or previously Gill) to be bright enough about football to scout players and decide whether to sign them or not.
The lack of transfers? We have spend £120m, one hundred fecking twenty million pounds, on players already this year! Do people not read news, do you honestly believe that we haven't signed anyone or have been tight in the market? The opposite of that actually. It's not Glazers who identify players though.
we needed at a minimum this summer:
3 defenders if playing with 2 CB's, 4 if playing with 3 CB's, so far we are playing with 3 CB's yet only signed 3 defenders...
2 quality midfielders, so far just 1 signed...
2 quality wingers if we play with them, at the very least 2 quality wide players, so far only Shaw can really be said to be either....
when you come 7th and want back into the top four with our squad, you need to be spending at least £200m realistically, that's just how big the gulf is when you have seasons like last year, if you think this squad can make the top four then you are delusional.
No, you don't need to be spending £200m instantly, that's just muppet talk. First and foremost you need to be wise with your transfers and pick right players, it doesn't matter how much they cost. Sometimes you can get a gem for £10m and a terrible player for £27.5m, the amount of money spent on players does not always dictate the quality of recruits.
We have spend:
£27.5m on Fellaini
£37m on Mata
£31m on Herrera
£30m on Shaw
£16m on Rojo
That amounts to £141.5m. That's more than any other club in the world in that period of time. We needed more players but we did not need to spend more to achieve that, we could have simply not paid £27.5m for Fellaini and get someone decent for that or got a cheaper left back and use the difference on a solid defensive midfielder.
The idea that we needed to have 4 center halves out of the side while the other 2 are playing is frankly crazy. We neede a center half and a left back and got both. I'd argue we need a right back as well if Rafael can't keep his fitness but Jones can fill in there (I hate it though).
We still need a defensive midfielder. We might need a winger if we are going to move away from 352. If not then a winger would be a waste of money. We definitely need new players and our rebuilding job has gone terrible so far IMO but the reason for that is not the lack of funds, far from that.
it's not just money, it's who you buy...we have bought in the case of Fellaini a complete dud, and we haven't invested enough in the midfield at all...
where do you get 6 CB's from? right now we have 4 first team CB's; Rojo, Smalling, Evans, Jones (Keane & Blackett have potential but right now are not first team standard imo), if we play 3 at the back as we have been, then we still need another first team CB or injuries or whatever will cost us dearly there.
we need at least another quality CM yeah, Herrera is a great buy but who is going to play with him? Fletch is hit & miss, Fellaini is a dud, Cleverley needs to improve hugely, Carrick is getting on & injured...we need a CM to be first choice with Herrera and a backup really imo
My point is it is not the lack of transfers that have cost us, or the lack of spending, it's wrong transfers. Even if you look at past year we spent £27m on Fellaini last year - it could have got us Strootman (£14m) and Benatia (£11m) and we'd have sorted CB and DM for a while. Then we spent £37m on Mata we didn't need, it's about the fee I'd expect us to pay for Di Maria if we were to sign him now (perhaps £6m - £8m more). We spent £30m on Shaw and we could have got Rodriguez for about £15m. Obviously you cannot expect to spot them all or to anticipate how good they are going to be but a top team like United should be able to assess players better than we have. We've been terrible buyers lately, honestly if this were to continue I'd rather keep the money than spend £79m on Michael Bradley and £115m on Matt Jarvis.
we need a Director of Football or something really, it's clear Woodward is incompetent when it comes to transfers.
We clearly do. We need to look after long term strategy rather than cherry pick the most expensive players available who are willing to join at the time. Woodward is a CEO, he cannot take care of the football side simply because he doesn't have the education to be competent at that.
Why is it only now more and more are calling for the Glazers heads? They've been bad news since the day they got here. All this talk of planned protests, boycotting of games won't make a blind bit of difference because you'll convince everyone that supports United that not going to game, not buying a pencil case with the United logo on it or the replica shirts is a good idea. It's either got to be everyone or no one and that simply won't happen.
I'm not saying they should, I'm saying the club should have realised that the squad is ageing and made sure they took steps with or without the manager to ensure the future of the club won't get to the stage were in now.
They aren't the ones making the footballing decisions, all they have done is give Woodward and LVG a lot of money to spend on building the team. We only have bought 3 players, when we should have more. That's not their fault, that is Woodward's fault for messing up deals and taking too long.
Very quiet in here.
The Glazers are there when you need them.
The Glazers are there when you need them.
This summer. It's welcome but the horse fecking bolted a couple of years back.
Deliver us bennie and Vidal and guess what, they will still be the same arseholes who are forcing the club to pay back a debt they themselves incurred.
Clearly a WUM!
People are misdiagnosing the problem! The problem is we are making massive amounts of money and none of it is being spent on the club! While other teams are making heavy losses and spending 5-6x what we spend in transfer windows. This is starting to change now, but we should be spending what we are able to spend within FFP to make up for the 700m that left the club in the last 10 years and the underinvestment that has come with that.
I think the fans are in their rights to just ask that they money they spend on jerseys is spent on talent and not gone on debts or dividends
I think the fans are in their rights to just ask that they money they spend on jerseys is spent on talent and not gone on debts or dividends
Once the costs start to build, in line with what this club should be spending, they won't be believe me.
What we are suffering from is a combination of 4 summers, from summer 2009 to summer 2012 where not enough was done in certain area's of our squad, now January 2013 to present allot of cash has been shelled out
If we analysis the signings since, its been a problem
Zaha - did not work out
Fellaini - failed signing
mata - seems like a panic buy
Herrera - what we need
Shaw - what we need
rojo - what we need
Now if we add up the signings of zaha fellaini and mata, those signings could have been used on another CM and a defender. If Moyes had a brain, and signed strootman instead of fellaini, a defender instead of mata, and we add another CM and a defender, I think our squad could have been in better shape especially now di maria is on board. I also think rooney should have been sold, cashed in on him and used welbeck RVP and hernandez has our main strikers, I feel we would have better balance with a squad that could have been a perfect 433 squad.
A squad what could have been
GK - DDG lindegaard
defence - rafeal smalling jones evans blackett rojo keane shaw blind
midfield - herrera strootman carrick De Jong fletcher
AM - di maria janazaj kagwa
attack - RVP welbeck hernandez
Best 11
DDG
Rafeal jones evans shaw
carrick
herrera strootman
di maria RVP janazaj
I feel that type of squad could have given us much better balance, has I just do not see Rooney and RVP fitting into the same team
protest on hold is it?
The anti Glazer movement was never about signings.
If you think it was, then you're clueless quite frankly.
If you think it was, then you're clueless quite frankly.
This incantation was. Originally it was about saddling the club with massive debt. But it has become clear that the debt is reducing and is more than manageable.
So now that we are floundering in mid table some of the fans blame the Glazers for their lack of spending in the transfer market, even though they have always said the money is there if the Manager asks for it.
We only have to look at the last 12 months to see that they are more than willing to put their hands in their pockets and buy the players our manager wants. The problem has been that the money has not always been spent wisely.
I think the problem people have had with the glazers, is haggling over 3 or 4 million on a player we never did need, and then waist the money on players we never truly needed, like fellaini and mata to a certain degree, which is not getting us anywhere