Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"

Celestiale said:
Now here we have a true expert :lol:
Tactical at Jurassic level? :confused: yeah sure...PL is attracting the best managers in the world year after year, but amazingly they turn to "Jurassic level" as soon as they go to the PL, after being "world class" the years before.
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I've heard Vialli, Di Canio and Ancelotti all commenting on how england makes it really hard for managers to work on tactical organization. Bad weather makes it harder to work on tatics during the week, and then the atmosphere in the stadiums is so incredible its like an IV of adrenaline, players are naturally pumped to run more and harder, which makes for exciting, fast-paced football, which makes it harder for the players to think with a cool head and for the teams to keep their tactical organization.

After his first game in charge at inter, mourinho outright said the premier league was years behind serie A in terms of tactical organization. Then again, that was 2008. And the premier league was by far the strongest league in the world at the time, despite being less tactical. Also, it was his first game, and his tactics that season consisted of "get the ball to ibra". He walked the league
 
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City were the better team up until KDB's fluke miss, after which they collapsed and Chelsea killed the game off perfectly. I personally think Guardiola had his tactics spot on and was unlucky not to win, he was let down by the team's poor finishing and, in the last third of the game, atrocious defending.
 
giorno said:
I've heard Vialli, Di Canio and Ancelotti all commenting on how england makes it really hard for managers to work on tactical organization. Bad weather makes it harder to work on tatics during the week, and then the atmosphere in the stadiums is so incredible its like an IV of adrenaline, players are naturally pumped to run more and harder, which makes for exciting, fast-paced football, which makes it harder for the players to think with a cool head and for the teams to keep their tactical organization.

After his first game in charge at inter, mourinho outright said the premier league was years behind serie A in terms of tactical organization. Then again, that was 2008. And the premier league was by far the strongest league in the world at the time, despite being less tactical
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Yeah but that doesn't make the tactics in the PL worse or anything, you just have to adapt to different tactics. This weather argument is utter BS, no offense. England has less rainy days then Germany for example. This "English weather" is nothing but a myth.
What really makes it harder to play with slow, organized tactics is the style of refereeing. Unlike Spain, Germany or Italy, you can't just turn your back to the opponent, and fall to the ground when he pushes you a little. In England you lose possession in such a situation, which makes organized build-up a lot harder then in other league, because players have to think faster, get pressurized way more. So managers have to adapt their tactics (Guardiola did a lot btw) to this league. That doesn't make them worse or better, it's just a little different sport then continental football.
I for one am very glad for the English style of football, because European one became playacting girly sports in the last 20 years. I know, different people see this in a different way. Each one to his own.
 
giorno said:
I've heard Vialli, Di Canio and Ancelotti all commenting on how england makes it really hard for managers to work on tactical organization. Bad weather makes it harder to work on tatics during the week, and then the atmosphere in the stadiums is so incredible its like an IV of adrenaline, players are naturally pumped to run more and harder, which makes for exciting, fast-paced football, which makes it harder for the players to think with a cool head and for the teams to keep their tactical organization.

After his first game in charge at inter, mourinho outright said the premier league was years behind serie A in terms of tactical organization. Then again, that was 2008. And the premier league was by far the strongest league in the world at the time, despite being less tactical. Also, it was his first game, and his tactics that season consisted of "get the ball to ibra". He walked the league
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I think you're right.

But in terms of entertainment alone there is no league like ours. Watching Spanish and Italian football are all so much more boring IMO. It's a lot slower and tactical. Only a handful are actually entertaining.
EDIT: that 'weather' thing is a load of bollocks.
 
It's not my argument, but i agree with the bit about the stadiums. The atmosphere in english stadiums as a huge impact on playing style. And it's true that PL managers are less meticulous in preparing games, and i think that's down to the playing style. When you expect a slow-paced game, you can prepare for every little detail of it. When you expect a drag-race, it's far more difficult to fo so. You prepare more for the physical aspect of the game instead of the tactical, because being ready to run 90 miles at lightning speed is more important than knowing how to defend every possible set piece or counter-attacking situation
 
SCP said:
No far from it, I am just saying that you probably only watched Bravo at the Premier League.

I watched him when he played for Sociedad, Barcelona and for Chile, and Joe Hart is shit compared to Bravo.
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I agree, Bravo is overall the superior keeper to Hart. As someone that has watched him for many years, what do you think are the reasons for his current struggles?
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
He's also taken over a side nowhere near as good as that Barce who won the CL 2 seasons before and had a prime Messi breaking through alongside Henry, Etoo, Ronaldinho, Iniesta and Xavi. Reckon my nan could win the CL with that lot. And Bayern who'd just won the trebble.

City's defense is a problem, there midfield isn't the same level, their forwards near to Bayern maybe but nowhere near Barce. A much harder job.

What's more his solution to their defensive problems was spending 50 million on a poor defender who's good at passing and an average keeper who's good at. Absolutely mental that they've spent 120m on Stones, Otamendi and Mangala, 140m if we include Bravo.
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I've always maintained that it was Rijkaard who did the heavy lifting at Barcelona and he deserves the majority of credit for the eventual global domination that Pep happened to preside over. Case in point: when Barcelona tried to sign Beckham in 2003, they were laughed at for thinking he would join such a rubbish club; that's how disorganised they were when Rijkaard was laying the foundations.

After alot of success, Rijkaard's team did a 'Chelsea 2015-2016' on him and he was sacked. But the sqaud he left behind were winners and still an amazing collection of players that just needed some fine tuning.

Pep was possibly the luckiest football manager ever to be appointed and he simply completed the job. He is vastly over rated and I genuinely believe this stint at City will prove his actual level which is below the greats like SAF, Ancellotti and Mourinho.
 
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Thought the ref made some serious howlers today,
Sideshow Bob should have seen red for stopping Aguero I the 2 nd and I thought Kante gave away a penalty in first half.
If united players behaved as the city clowns did there would be murders!
 
giorno said:
I've heard Vialli, Di Canio and Ancelotti all commenting on how england makes it really hard for managers to work on tactical organization. Bad weather makes it harder to work on tatics during the week, and then the atmosphere in the stadiums is so incredible its like an IV of adrenaline, players are naturally pumped to run more and harder, which makes for exciting, fast-paced football, which makes it harder for the players to think with a cool head and for the teams to keep their tactical organization.

After his first game in charge at inter, mourinho outright said the premier league was years behind serie A in terms of tactical organization. Then again, that was 2008. And the premier league was by far the strongest league in the world at the time, despite being less tactical. Also, it was his first game, and his tactics that season consisted of "get the ball to ibra". He walked the league
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I don't get this bit. The Serie A was ahead of the Prem tactically but Jose's tactics of getting the ball to Ibra meant he walked the league?
 
sammsky1 said:
I've always maintained that it was Rijkaard who did the heavy lifting at Barcelona and he deserves the majority of credit for the eventual global domination that Pep happened to preside over.

Point in case: when Barcelona tried to sign Beckham in 2003, they were laughed at for thinking he would join such a rubbish club: that's how disorganised they were when Rijkaard was laying the foundations.

After alot of success, Rijkaard team did a 'Chelsea 2015-2016' on him and he was sacked. But the sqaud he left behind was still an amazing collection of players that just needed some fine tuning.

Pep was possibly then luckiest football manager ever to be appointed and he simply completed the job.

He is vastly over rated and I genuinely believe this stint at City will prove his actual level which is below the greats like SAF, Ancellotti and Mourinho.
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Largely agree with that. They were a decent team when Rivaldo was there in the late 90s but there's now this belief they have always been a European giant, which simply isn't true.

Guardiola is clearly a great coach but the foundations of Barcelona were already there, and Bayern was already complete when he joined. City is the first time he is having to build a team and still the core is already there for him.
 
Will the FA take action against Pep for the sarcastic claps and celebration aimed at the ref? I know a few managers who definitely would
 
Touseef said:
Will the FA take action against Pep for the sarcastic claps and celebration aimed at the ref? I know a few managers who definitely would
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Would never see that happen with Mourinho. With a fixture like that he'd have been in the stands long before :)
 
clarkydaz said:
2008, the year 2 English teams made the CL final
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?

What I meant was, how would the Serie A be tactically ahead of the English league when he says Mourinho won the Serie A by just hitting the ball to Ibrahimovic? Surely they'd wise up to that if they were halfway decent at the whole tactics thing?

It's a genuine question. I don't care about the whole Serie A/La Liga/Prem argument. I watch football to be entertained anyway, not to analyse games for hours so I could write a dossier on how a fullback should be occupying the space between the touchline and centre circle or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I play football with my head, but watching and playing are different things.
 
Ha!! I predicted they will not get top four and the local city sympathizers lost their collective shits. It will only get worse just watch. That defense is pure shite.
 
Jose Mourinho to be charged for Sergio Aguero's midriff goal line clearance, Emptihad's empty seats and fernadinho's goodwill pat a cake gesture on Fab's fabulous profile
 
The Bravo/Hart debate is interesting. I think it was a bit of a sideways move. Bravo is clearly better with his feet but his shot-stopping is poor. But if Pep had kept Hart he'd have good shot-stopping but the poor ball playing. He really needs a 'keeper who can do both or it is pretty futile. Think City are desperately missing Kompany at the back too.
 
ZDwyr said:
The Bravo/Hart debate is interesting. I think it was a bit of a sideways move. Bravo is clearly better with his feet but his shot-stopping is poor. But if Pep had kept Hart he'd have good shot-stopping but the poor ball playing. He really needs a 'keeper who can do both or it is pretty futile. Think City are desperately missing Kompany at the back too.
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Agree with all this. I wonder if City might offer an ungodly sum for Lloris next summer, who is basically the perfect Guardiola keeper.

Bravo has been a big weakness all year. I think he simply didn't have that much to do at Barcelona and his weaknesses have been exposed. He doesn't have a large frame or big wingspan and so he gives attackers a lot of the goal to shoot at. And, unlike some small keepers, he doesn't have amazing reflexes to compensate. Both the Costa and Willian finishes were well taken but neither was superb. They both essentially just rolled the ball to the side of a keeper that can't splay his limbs in a way that creates a big obstacle. The Willian finish in particular was way too easy for a player shooting from that angle and distance.
 
ZDwyr said:
The Bravo/Hart debate is interesting. I think it was a bit of a sideways move. Bravo is clearly better with his feet but his shot-stopping is poor. But if Pep had kept Hart he'd have good shot-stopping but the poor ball playing. He really needs a 'keeper who can do both or it is pretty futile. Think City are desperately missing Kompany at the back too.
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I swear this guy has got better the more games he doesn't play! When in reality he had a very good season or two but always looked dodgy in the champions league and even the last 2-3 years he has been injury prone and when he has played prone to an error or two.
 
The BlackGaijin said:
Ha!! I predicted they will not get top four and the local city sympathizers lost their collective shits. It will only get worse just watch. That defense is pure shite.
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You have local City fans in Japan? All the people I ask here have never even heard of them.
 
Powderfinger said:
Agree with all this. I wonder if City might offer an ungodly sum for Lloris next summer, who is basically the perfect Guardiola keeper.

Bravo has been a big weakness all year. I think he simply didn't have that much to do at Barcelona and his weaknesses have been exposed. He doesn't have a large frame or big wingspan and so he gives attackers a lot of the goal to shoot at. And, unlike some small keepers, he doesn't have amazing reflexes to compensate. Both the Costa and Willian finishes were well taken but neither was superb. They both essentially just rolled the ball to the side of a keeper that can't splay his limbs in a way that creates a big obstacle. The Willian finish in particular was way too easy for a player shooting from that angle and distance.
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That Lloris idea isn't a bad one actually! Could definitely see it happening.

Lawman said:
I swear this guy has got better the more games he doesn't play! When in reality he had a very good season or two but always looked dodgy in the champions league and even the last 2-3 years he has been injury prone and when he has played prone to an error or two.
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I agree with you, he is definitely not as good as he was for that season or two. BUT compared to Stones and Otamendi he is still better (I think).
 
What was up with their Gerónimo Rulli deal? He seems like he would fit the bill but, it seems they bought him to sell him back to Real Sociedad.
 
Neuron said:
City were the better team up until KDB's fluke miss, after which they collapsed and Chelsea killed the game off perfectly. I personally think Guardiola had his tactics spot on and was unlucky not to win, he was let down by the team's poor finishing and, in the last third of the game, atrocious defending.
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thepolice123 said:
Thought Mcity was the better team. They got undone by some terrible defending.
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I agree with both, City should have got the 3 points to be fair to them. A lot of people jumping on Pep and hoping it starts to unravel for him.

Unfortunately he's done a pretty good job up to now and they'll definitely be there or thereabouts at the end of the season.
 
thepolice123 said:
Thought Mcity was the better team. They got undone by some terrible defending.
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Yeah I think it's a case of people looking at the result and how the game ended and making out that Chelsea tactically outsmarted City throughout and that Conte is a genius.

There was some very poor refereeing and many chances being wasted by City. For most parts of the game they were splitting that Chelsea defence time and time again. Pep will be very pissed off for throwing that game away because it was essentially in their hands to win that game. They were the superior side but bottled it basically in front of goal and in their own defensive third.

Costa v Aguero, KDB v Hazard and Luiz v Stones were the key battles and KDB apart Chelsea's individuals made better decisions under pressure.

All it takes is an injury to Hazard or Costa and Chelsea will fall back into the pack whereas City for me are less reliant on individuals and have a dominant style of play regardless of who is playing. We will see what happens but if Chelsea keep their main men fit.. Then of course they will be pretty hard to stop but not impossible to catch imo.
 
There was a discussion about City needs at least 2 goals per game since their defense pretty much guarantee conceding 1 goal per game in this thread or another one earlier, right?

So with that in mind, even the commentators notice how desperate Pep was eager for the second goal. Pep knew he couldn't trust that defense. Once Chelsea level, City was mentally the underdog despite they still created more chances.

City was definitely better before the equalizer. Most Chelsea's attempts (misleading) up to this point was rather tame compare to City's.
 
Ban said:
Mourinho was already everything Conte is right now.
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Exactly - "was" - and that's why the game has passed Mourinho by. A panic appointment in a the year of the superstar PL manager.
 
I think the result yesterday was good for Liverpool as I still take City as a better team than Chelsea. Plus, they will have Gabriel Jesus in few weeks who is a terrific forward. An injury to Costa or Hazard or a slump in form and Chelsea will struggle. City and Liverpool have a more established style of play. But City play in the CL and may suffer from it. The competition for the title will be great this season. Shame that United are not in it (yet).
 
SCP said:
Finally someone who understands and knows how to talk about football. I cannot believe the level of ignorance that one can read in these forum.

Jesus they only know how to judge performances by results, even Conte said they were lucky, and lots of experts here saying that Guardiola is a fraud, and the EPL is the toughest league in the world.

Only physically, because at a tactical level they are on a Jurassic level, even if they spend 10 billion euros they will never play the best football, they have to hire all the foreign managers to teach them how to play.
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It's funny how all these tactically superb managers like Jose, Klopp, Pep and Conte come to the PL and all of a sudden decide to play 'jurassic level' football. You would think if the league was being competed by morons any mid level manager could wander in and walk the League. This is such a tired stereotype use to bash the league, the different between the PL and La Liga/Bundesliga is the quality of player in the top tier teams, that's it.
 
Raees said:
There was some very poor refereeing and many chances being wasted by City. For most parts of the game they were splitting that Chelsea defence time and time again. Pep will be very pissed off for throwing that game away because it was essentially in their hands to win that game. They were the superior side but bottled it basically in front of goal and in their own defensive third.
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Sounds a familar story this side of the City also. We have lacked quality and luck but some big decisions have not gone our way that should have.
 
I will be astounded if Guardiola does not face punishment for his behaviour yesterday.
 
NinjaZombie said:
I don't get this bit. The Serie A was ahead of the Prem tactically but Jose's tactics of getting the ball to Ibra meant he walked the league?
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What i meant was, after his first game -so, his opponent had no way of knowing for sure how morinho would set up inter, what they would try to do and how to counter it- miuronho came out saying "serie A is miles ahead in terms of tactical organization, i came here thinking it would be no different from chelsea, but here, i need to work a lot more on tactics", but then he didn't, because he actually didn't need to, since he had Ibra. Basically i'm saying i think mourinho was kinda full of shite when he said that.

As to why that worked, it's simple. Tactical organization is only one aspect of the game. You can be as well organized as possible, but if you're unable to keep up, you can take all your organization and stuff it up your arse. Peak Ibra was a monster and the only way to stop him was to stop the rest of the team from getting the ball to him, and nobody in Italy had the physicality/technical skill to do that.
 
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Ah I see the City Defence Force are out in power.

Of course he was tactically out done it was a fecking embarassment for him and his team completely lost their heads.

His line up selection was beyond a joke. he went all out attack with little to no defensive cover and one holding midfielder in fermandinho. it was basically one ugly artogant dump on his thoughts about Conte and Chelsea and he got it completely wrong and under estimated just how good Chelsea have been.

He relied on Sane who went completely missing other than two runs in the second half and Gundogan who I forgot was playing to be the creative spark. Willian comes on and destroyed them within 5 mins.

Pep played a ridiculous high line pushing terrible defenders lile Stones and Otamendi so high up the pitch woth no regards as to how terrible they are at readimg the game.

Then when his team were in meltdown he decided that rather and salvage the situation hed take the piss out of the ref.

An utter shambles and a pure joy to watch.
 
He did really well against Chelsea. Pushed the wingbacks high and then had his free eights (Silva and De Bruyne) play in the spaces produced on either side of the pitch. They created a lot of chances and on the balance of play were the better team. I think it was really Willian's goal that did Man City in. Otamendi was very eager to nick the ball in front of Costa, as they said on MoTD. That happened last season in Bayern vs. Atletico, allowing Griezmann to score a goal, didn't it? The teams were drawing (on aggregate) like yesterday and Guardiola wanted his team to be aggressive and get the win. I guess it's a problem in the way Guardiola wants his teams to win.
 
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