Well not necessarily if the problem is the historic spending. If we sell players like Maguire, Sancho, VDB, that frees up money that we are currently paying this summer, that we wouldn’t be next summer.
Man Utd summer transfer budget capped by FFP due to 'historic spending'
- Thread starter Hammondo
- Start date
Well not necessarily if the problem is the historic spending. If we sell players like Maguire, Sancho, VDB, that frees up money that we are currently paying this summer, that we wouldn’t be next summer.
Depends on if we break even on FFP for each of them.
We've got 2/6*80m of amortization left for Maguire so we need to sell him for a minimum of £26m to break even. That frees up £13m each for 2 seasons.
We've got 4/6*70m of amortization left for Sancho so we need to sell him for a minimum of £46m to break even there. That frees up £11.5m each for 4 seasons.
For VDB we've got 2/5*35m of amortization left so we need to sell for a minimum of £14m. That frees up £7m each for 2 seasons.
So that frees up £31.5m for the next 2 seasons. And £11.5m for another 2 seasons after that = £86m to spend this summer.
TLDR: we can spend as much as we generate in sales as long as we break even on the FFP accounts for those sales.
I think we know our new shirt sponsor will be one of two companies and it’s likely to be a new world record for a shirt sponsor. Don’t think we have to worry about that particular issue too much.
Nice, thanks. But I’m assuming we’re not down to zero in terms of what we can actually spend without sales. I’m sure it’ll be a fairly usual spend of £140/£150 million, which seems to be our norm.
We've got room to spend £100m without sales which is what's reported everywhere. It's down from the usual £150m because we heavily overspent last summer.
How all of this doesn't mean anything if Qataris come through. Once they come through and the inevitable Qatari sponsorship deals, we'll blow the roof up by inflating our revenue. Fingers crossed.
Can't they lie and give them bullshit figures and when they get wind of it and give UTD a ban and fine, they can take it to CAS and say oops but it was a long time ago and then just pay a little bit of the fine because it will be In lump sum. Could try that?
Ohh shit that's Been done so can't pull that one. I think we've just got to suck it and see..
Ohh shit that's Been done so can't pull that one. I think we've just got to suck it and see..
I agree. If "historic spending" comes into it, City and Chelsea won't be able to buy anyone for about five years!
He said IF, he never assumed anything, whereas you yourself actually did assume by stating:
"It's more likely ten hag changed his mind..."
Which makes you look a complete prat when trying to act like a smart arse, telling the lad:
Right after calling him out for doing something you actually did, whereas he never did.
Wind your neck in and calm down.
No offence kid but you need to follow things a bit better.
Firstly he decided to have a pre-emptive moan about the situation based on a remote assumption which is basically getting annoyed at a hypothetical madeup in his own head.
Second, my scenario is more likely based on the series of events. Ten Hag himself is aligned to the DoFs, Ten Hag said he wanted to keep DDG, a contract was offered and it was stalled on any agreement for a long time. It was also well briefed that it was Ten Hag himself who changed his mind - so my premise isn't on assumption but based on tier one reporting. His however is based on loose assumption from pre-existing dislike toward Murtough.
Stay in your lane, and be more subtle in the name calls. You'll be stuck in the newbies for a while.
Other clubs seem to do fine with spending big before dealing with FFP. But at Man Utd, we have to deal with FFP before spending?
Add on top of that the wages that will probably need to be covered for those players who won’t take a pay cut I.e. Maguire and Sancho.. you’ll inflate their base minimum value as I doubt it will be coming out of our own pocket.
So it makes Maguire’s book value around £45m minus the wages a new club is willing to pay him.
It’s what we deserve really. Spent ungodly amounts of cash on mediocre footballers for the most part and hand over double what they would earn at any other club.
We’ll get out of the mess eventually but not until the Glazer’s are long gone.
We’ll get out of the mess eventually but not until the Glazer’s are long gone.
I see reports twisting it in to we can spend more now because we spent 55m before July. The budget will be 582m at this rate
Question, since most of the payment structures are over several years, does FFP take that into consideration? Meaning is the limit what we can pay this summer or does it include future payments as well?
Well either way. You might be paying the money over four years but the next year you’ll make the same sort of deals, then the following year, so you will always be accumulating payments.
Years of terrible decision making was bound to catch up with us at some point. We'll do very well to match last season's 3rd with the lack of funds this summer.
Agreed. Is no se es article
Because new FFP rules take into account transfer profit/loss over 3 years
I suspect it’s hampered more yet again by a few absolute clowns in Tampa.
Apparently we are going after Taremi which would speak volumes. We are basically not shopping at the top level at all this summer.
We haven’t got the money for the absolute cream of the crop. This is certain after the expense and mismanagement past few years.
It’s not just FFP I honestly believe the club is kinda broke.
Selling players is our problem. Exactly the same with Barcelona and Madrid too.
Players get to these three big clubs and see out their contracts regardless. They’ve made it at that point. Bale took Madrid for tens of millions and they could do very little.
We haven’t got the money for the absolute cream of the crop. This is certain after the expense and mismanagement past few years.
It’s not just FFP I honestly believe the club is kinda broke.
Selling players is our problem. Exactly the same with Barcelona and Madrid too.
Players get to these three big clubs and see out their contracts regardless. They’ve made it at that point. Bale took Madrid for tens of millions and they could do very little.
Last edited by a moderator:
FFP is based on transfer fee amortization (which is over the life of the contract) + wages. Timing of actual cash flows isn't a consideration.
Every transfer budget related story I've ever read about United over recent years has been false. It's a quandary for journalists. They know these stories about this club are great reader fodder in the summer, but they get nothing from the club about it, certainly not the owners. So they effectively 'have to' run these stories for commercial reasons and just hope by the time they're disproven few days/weeks later that everyone's forgotten what they wrote.
Perfectly answered assume that we have a total amortisation transfer debt of £308m
Next Season - 23/24 we are committed to probably pay about £100m from £308m future debt, Casemiro, Antony, Martinez all done on terms so £70m/ 5 year contract (12m), Antony £85m/5 year contract (17m), Martinez £50m/5 year contract (10m) They will all continue until 27/28 season whether we sell them or not, example Fred is in his last year, so next year the historical debt of £308m will fall by £10m for Fred but then increase by £11m for Mason Mount so we still owe £309m.
FFP is not really a thing this year, it’s been replaced by FSP and the new sustainability rule means we can only spend 90% of our income generated on Wages, Financials and Expenses, net amortised transfer debt, Agent and Signing fees, Net Transfer.
United Predicted revenue for season 22/23 is now expected to be £630m which means as a club our FSP threshold will be £567m.
The wages due to Europa have been predicted to fall by 16% to £325m, amortised transfer debt £100m, The financials is difficult with only three quarters of last year shown, especially with the Glazers chartering private flights everywhere on the club, but let’s take an educated guess of £80m, Agent Fees based on £200m at 7/8% = £15m.
That would leave £567m - £520m = £47m net Transfer. That doesn’t mean we have £47m but we can amortise that figure by the length of contracts 3/5 years so assume a true budget without selling any player of between £135 and £225m.
If the club sold D Henderson, B Williams and A Ellanga for a combined £35m, all these would show as true net profit as they never cost the club a penny and thus figure would be added to the £47m now showing a net transfer profit of £82m and a budget from £250-375m dependent on contracts issued to new players and wages agreed which also have to balanced.
I genuinely think the budget originally mentioned was before the increased projection on turnover to £630-640m from £570-580m.
Last edited:
Wouldn't the fact we just let a £375k a week goalkeeper's contract expire not give us some leeway then?
I'm very impressed with your ability to explain this in a way I can understand, so I thank you for that.
Are you basically saying that the constant briefs around spending being limited by FFP is mostly the Glazers bullshitting us?
We are actually handicapped by an inability to sell talent at competitive prices
I genuine think this a media bluff however you are right about terrible decisions in the past, when we were using the profit generated by the club to pay for transfers upfront and in one payment, we were not pushing the problem to the next season and eventually it catches up with you like now we owe £308m in transfer debt payments.
For the last 3/4 years the club has been making record loses, using cash reserves to pay off the amortised transfer debt and servicing the £535m legacy debt with huge yearly interest payments, until the Glazers completely bleed the club dry which they now have done!
If this is the case why aren’t we pushing harder to sell players?
Just like last year, remember we only had a budget of £100-120m per year then after selling two homegrown players ; J Garner and A Pereira for £25m combined we were able to spend £220m. The Glazers remit is the same every year £100-150m transfer budget so they can take Dividends which they can not anymore as the dividend payment opportunity per share has devalued by 600% looking at the last financial results, they have to sell, maybe not this year but with in 12 months or they potentially could take the club into a bankruptcy, especially with interest rates rising.
Just turned July and up you pop.
I bet you’re Counting down the days until the top 4 22/23 thread gets created
Don't believe we've only got a £100m budget, there was similar stories last year until the panic set in and we suddenly found the money for Casemiro and Antony
Totally agree however, fans are going crazy at E Laird and Zidane Iqbal being sold for £1.5m combined which adds about £7.5m to our budget this year but with 40% sell in clauses, this is the first clever financial decision we’ve made. Here’s why ?
Fast Forward two years to 2025/26 season FSP is now in its third year and you can only spend 70% of your income on Wages, Amortised Transfer debt, Financials & Expenses, Net transfer Fee.
Assume under new owners 10% year on year growth in revenue that’s £700m club revenue by season 25/26 but we will probably have no debt, huge wages and Still have maybe 1 year of amortised transfer debt to pay at £80m as new owners will pay for players in one payment which is a huge advantage going forward. We Would only £490m to spend on FSP Threshold in 2 years with wages £370m, Amortised Debt £80m, Agent fees £20m, leaving only £20m for net transfers or £80-100m if we amortise length of contract, however Zidane Iqbal Has just been sold to PSG for £40m and Eithan Laird to Fulham for £30m, then the club would receive 40% of that £70m or £28m towards the clubs transfer budget for that summer.
If SJ and 92 Foundation bought the club, they may pay off all the Existing transfer debt owed by the club which make United next season a true Behemoth again in the transfer Market.
What?!
2 weeks until pre season starts and we’ve got 1 signing…
City have been spending less than us so they should have a higher limit to spend in this season.
We need to get a lot better at selling our academy players, and at the right time. Teams like Chelsea and Liverpool have been a lot better at doing it than us in recent years.
It might not be easy to sell the likes of Maguire for FFP purposes, but you would think it should be doable for players like Henderson, Williams, McTominay and Elanga.
It might not be easy to sell the likes of Maguire for FFP purposes, but you would think it should be doable for players like Henderson, Williams, McTominay and Elanga.
Top 5 this year , five CL positions to the PL, two for Europa and one Conference League so that’s 8 places for season 24/25 because of the PL high coefficient rating. This year there are 8 EPL teams in Europe and there could be 10 next year.
If Villa won the conference league and finished 9th there would be 3 Europa positions available next year and if Newcastle won the CL but came 10th then we would have 6 CL teams, it’s crazy that soon half the PL could be playing European football!