Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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great move, with the manager merry go round at pretty much ever professional club these days, clubs need a bit of consistency.

You can't just have a manger dictating who they want to sign, becuase most of the times these days they arnt here the following year.
 
Nytram Shakes said:
great move, with the manager merry go round at pretty much ever professional club these days, clubs need a bit of consistency.

You can't just have a manger dictating who they want to sign, becuase most of the times these days they arnt here the following year.
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That is exactly how things will remain. United are not appointing the traditional «DoF».
 
SirAF said:
That is exactly how things will remain. United are not appointing the traditional «DoF».
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Not while Mourinho is here, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out after he leaves. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but taking one quote from Woodward around the time when they were negotiating Mourinho's extension and extrapolating that beyond this manager isn't reasonable.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Yea that's what I don't get about the constant clamouring for a DoF. Its practically always based off the assumption that they are guaranteed to do a good job and last long term.
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Obviously, among other things, he would be also judged based on the performance of the team and successful implementation of wanted playing style. Naturally, if he does a bad job, he could survive a little longer than a manager, but in the end, he can be easily replaced. I can only assume he would have a big say in who will be a club manager, so he really can't make so many mistakes.

In my view, though, hiring DoF after you already have a manager in place would be an opposite and wrong way to go, so if do go after one who will have a power/responsibilities like in other European clubs it will be most likely once Jose isn't manager anymore.

But, I think it's the right way to go, once we decide. Time of big managers who are taking care of everything is coming to an end. The manager, imo, should be fully concentrated on his team, training, picking a team and tactics. Our way of working is currently not only resulting in two completely different playing styles in a space of just 2 years but is preventing us from going after certain talented managers who are mainly concentrated on coaching and dealing with the first team. In other words, don't have an experience as traditional British managers and present even bigger risk than they would normally have. Especially, as the link to the board is only Ed and he is not a football man.
Btw. DoF would be great for Woodward also as he would allow him to fully concentrate on the commercial side of things.
 
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Trizy said:
Indeed. New scouts, youtube channel and ladies football team! Now a DoF? I wonder is the same person behind all these changes. Very welcomed steps indeed.
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Intereatingly all of those things have had long running threads here on the caf too. I wonder where theyre getting their ideas :cool:
 
As the club continues to grow in size, new positions are created. For example, United have been looking for a Director of Football Operations all season. Unlike at other clubs with similarly titled roles, the appointee will not be involved in recruitment or transfers, beyond paperwork. The role will be closer to that of a Club Secretary, with the DOFO responsible for overseas paperwork, logistics, travel and Academy Training Centre development.

Mourinho is one of the faces of football's biggest clubs and among the few people with frequent access to him will be the aforementioned appointments, including the Director of Football Operations and communications boss.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/club...ff-turnover-is-a-reminder-of-the-clubs-growth
 
Brilliant.

Lets get a a world class director of football to be the link between manager and board and help foster a dynamic progressive attitude at the club.
 
Laurentiu amt said:
I think Butt won't be able to, let's say, "enforce" stuff on Jose when needed.

We need a bigger person than him, someone with a well documented CV in that position.
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Get rid of Mourinho. Hire a manager who will play proper football and actually challenge the big boys sometimes in the future.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Yea that's what I don't get about the constant clamouring for a DoF. Its practically always based off the assumption that they are guaranteed to do a good job and last long term.
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If you act based on the assumption that you hire morons then you might as well close down the club. The reasoning behind a DoF appointment is incredibly simple. At top clubs coaches last maybe three years on average and they often are under immense pressure to deliver immediately. Thus they have very strong incentives to prioritize short term success over the mid to long term, even if it might not be the best for the club, not to mention that it's going to be hard to have a cohesive long term strategy if the man in charge is replaced every three years (even if they for some reason happen to care about what they leave behind), United's philosophical U-turn from Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho are evidence of this.
 
do.ob said:
If you act based on the assumption that you hire morons then you might as well close down the club. The reasoning behind a DoF appointment is incredibly simple. At top clubs coaches last maybe three years on average and they often are under immense pressure to deliver immediately. Thus they have very strong incentives to prioritize short term success over the mid to long term, even if it might not be the best for the club, not to mention that it's going to be hard to have a cohesive long term strategy if the man in charge is replaced every three years (even if they for some reason happen to care about what they leave behind), United's philosophical U-turn from Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho are evidence of this.
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And if the DoF's 'cohesive long term strategy' is a bit shite then you can just carry on sacking the managers for a while I suppose?
 
712 said:
And if the DoF's 'cohesive long term strategy' is a bit shite then you can just carry on sacking the managers for a while I suppose?
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If you appoint incomptent people (and keep them) you're fecked either way?
 
RedMachine03 said:
As the club continues to grow in size, new positions are created. For example, United have been looking for a Director of Football Operations all season. Unlike at other clubs with similarly titled roles, the appointee will not be involved in recruitment or transfers, beyond paperwork. The role will be closer to that of a Club Secretary, with the DOFO responsible for overseas paperwork, logistics, travel and Academy Training Centre development.

Mourinho is one of the faces of football's biggest clubs and among the few people with frequent access to him will be the aforementioned appointments, including the Director of Football Operations and communications boss.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/club...ff-turnover-is-a-reminder-of-the-clubs-growth
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Lads and lassies, if the above is right, then we are recruiting a club secretary rather than a DoF.
 
RedMachine03 said:
As the club continues to grow in size, new positions are created. For example, United have been looking for a Director of Football Operations all season. Unlike at other clubs with similarly titled roles, the appointee will not be involved in recruitment or transfers, beyond paperwork. The role will be closer to that of a Club Secretary, with the DOFO responsible for overseas paperwork, logistics, travel and Academy Training Centre development.

Mourinho is one of the faces of football's biggest clubs and among the few people with frequent access to him will be the aforementioned appointments, including the Director of Football Operations and communications boss.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/club...ff-turnover-is-a-reminder-of-the-clubs-growth
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Once the DOF is appointed and established,
--At first, it may starts as a semi-secretary and some other power responsibilities, with the manager retains big autonomous.
----Overtime it can easily change, whenever the club needs it to be.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I don't really know what a DoF actually does that's different to what a manager does but eh.. yay.
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That's the thing, on the continent managers are rare, 99% of clubs use head coaches, they only take care of the first team. And they work alongside a proper DOF or a club president that also does the job of a DOF, Bayern and Juventus are examples of both cases. The british definition of manager is the combination of a DOF and a head coach.
 
JPRouve said:
That's the thing, on the continent managers are rare, 99% of clubs use head coaches, they only take care of the first team. And they work alongside a proper DOF or a club president that also does the job of a DOF, Bayern and Juventus are examples of both cases. The british definition of manager is the combination of a DOF and a head coach.
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I could be wrong but I'd guess the main benefit of a DOF is the fact that managers can be sacked at a whim these days whereas a DoF is seen as a very long term appointment, so if they're the ones deciding the transfers they're doing it with long term goals in mind as opposed to short term gains (hi, Sanchez), right?
 
What I don't understand is that there seems to be this belief that a DoF will give us greater continuity as managers come and go. But if managers are coming and going then it's most likely because results aren't good enough. If results aren't good enough then surely the DoF shares the blame and would come and go too?

Not sure I like the idea of someone being involved heavily with the football side of things and have the ability to make calls throw his weight around, being assumed to be this undismissable entity who isn't held directly accountable simply because he's there to provide stability whilst other people gets fired.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I could be wrong but I'd guess the main benefit of a DOF is the fact that managers can be sacked at a whim these days whereas a DoF is seen as a very long term appointment, so if they're the ones deciding the transfers they're doing it with long term goals in mind as opposed to short term gains (hi, Sanchez), right?
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Dubious to call that a benefit. I don't the manager to be someone who just picks the team from a pool of players he has limited control over the assembly of.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I could be wrong but I'd guess the main benefit of a DOF is the fact that managers can be sacked at a whim these days whereas a DoF is seen as a very long term appointment, so if they're the ones deciding the transfers they're doing it with long term goals in mind as opposed to short term gains (hi, Sanchez), right?
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In general DOFs are hired because of their actual intelligence and competence, it's no different to hiring a CFO or a COO. Their work is based around HR, networking and negotiating, if you do your homework it's very difficult to hire someone that is bad enough that you would have to quickly sack him for incompetency, the famous cases like Kluivert or Comolli were obvious boneheaded decisions that have been criticized even before the hiring.
Managers are different, first they have a bigger tendency to move, in order to work in different leagues or with different players, it's also harder to evaluate a HC/manager there are lots of intangible like the famous steps.
 
Oscie said:
What I don't understand is that there seems to be this belief that a DoF will give us greater continuity as managers come and go. But if managers are coming and going then it's most likely because results aren't good enough. If results aren't good enough then surely the DoF shares the blame and would come and go too?

Not sure I like the idea of someone being involved heavily with the football side of things and have the ability to make calls throw his weight around, being assumed to be this undismissable entity who isn't held directly accountable simply because he's there to provide stability whilst other people gets fired.
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Is this the case at the perennially successful big clubs who have that setup?
 
roseguy64 said:
Is this the case at the perennially successful big clubs who have that setup?
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We've been one of the most successful clubs for much of the last 30 years without DoF. The appointment of two bad managers post isn't reason for completely abandoning what's worked for us on the basis of trying out something that's worked for other people.

Even clubs with DoF set-up have dry spells. In football perennial success doesn't exist.
 
Oscie said:
We've been one of the most successful clubs for much of the last 30 years without DoF. The appointment of two bad managers post isn't reason for completely abandoning what's worked for us on the basis of trying out something that's worked for other people.

Even clubs with DoF set-up have dry spells. In football perennial success doesn't exist.
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That's naive to say the least, what worked for us was SAF not the all powerful manager set up and even then it's important to know that Martin Ferguson operated like a DOF, he was the one working with the scouts and the one doing a part of the DOF job for SAF. People are really underestimating SAF's set up, he was a sport management genius and built an actual structure around him, that structure doesn't exist anymore. So unless the
 
I don't care for this. If this bloke is shite (he's still being employed by the same people that employ the manager) then we've just got another person in need of the bin.

Our manager (I assume) has control of who he wants to buy, who he wants to sell and how he wants his team to play football. That's the right way to do things. Other people sort out the financials.
 
JPRouve said:
That's naive to say the least, what worked for us was SAF not the all powerful manager set up and even then it's important to know that Martin Ferguson operated like a DOF, he was the one working with the scouts and the one doing a part of the DOF job for SAF. People are really underestimating SAF's set up, he was a sport management genius and built an actual structure around him, that structure doesn't exist anymore. So unless the
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But he worked under Ferguson. Why would you have someone who could buy players the person managing the team mightn't want?

If you want a head scout then have a head scout. This massive hardon we have for the acronym DoF doesn't make any sense. Do you not think we already have someone who operates 'like' a DoF who is in charge of scouting networks?
 
Oscie said:
But he worked under Ferguson. Why would you have someone who could buy players the person managing the team mightn't want?

If you want a head scout then have a head scout. This massive hardon we have for the acronym DoF doesn't make any sense. Do you not think we already have someone who operates 'like' a DoF who is in charge of scouting networks?
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First a DOF that isn't incompetent won't sign a player that the head coach mightn't want, so from the beginning you just assume that a DOF is incompetent and an idiot. Secondly generally, the DOF is one of the people that choose the head coach, so you will rarely see a duo DOF-HC that doesn't have the same approach and wants dramatically different players, that point is why I wouldn't hire a DOF while Mourinho is the manager.

Finally, the reason most clubs have DOFs is because it's near impossible to find someone that is at the same time a good coach and a good manager, it's a lot easier to find two competent people.
 
JPRouve said:
First a DOF that isn't incompetent won't sign a player that the head coach mightn't want, so from the beginning you just assume that a DOF is incompetent and an idiot. Secondly generally, the DOF is one of the people that choose the head coach, so you will rarely see a duo DOF-HC that doesn't have the same approach and wants dramatically different players, that point is why I wouldn't hire a DOF while Mourinho is the manager.

Finally, the reason most clubs have DOFs is because it's near impossible to find someone that is at the same time a good coach and a good manager, it's a lot easier to find two competent people.
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I agree about not thinking about it until Jose has gone. We never had one in the past, but most PL didn't either. It is a different game now. United is different from even SAF's time. The way we conduct transfers now is completely different. Just think that if we got a DOF now there would just be even more conflict. The media seems to think he fights with most of his players, throw a DOF in there as well and they would have a field day. Once he has gone look for the best coach, someone who actually coaches all aspects of the game, then get in someone to deal with the transfers the manager wants.
 
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