Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

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2cents said:
That strikes me as a very good reason not to appoint him.
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It would certainly add to the 'Old Boys Club' vibe (yet again) with another pally-pally former player in a position of authority. I just wish we would burn all this bullshit and just appoint a top DOF overseeing a top manager paired with top coaching staff with absolutely no requirement for being a former United player to be in any of those slots.

I don't think we'll appoint one at all those to be honest. But someone like Cruyff would probably be more likely than any of the previously mentioned guys.
 
Woodward is the type of manager that will see the business fail before accepting that he is incompetent. The type of manager Kodak, GE... had. If the owners will not remove him, he will destroy the club.
 
Would be a very good move IMO. We need the entire club pulling in one direction.
 
Do you think the Glazer are deliberately avoiding the signing in the hierarchy of a DoF ?
I'm trying to understand why they would do that, despite the fact they don't know Football at all I mean.
I could understand why Woodward isn't pushing for it because it wouldn't be a good news for him but the owners, don't they realise it would take us forward as a club and have effect on the pitch, long term thinking.
 
Adnan said:
His work as a DoF has been very impressive and Barcelona have made him offers to take the job at their club. And Barca wouldn't do that if he wasn't very impressive at his job.
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Don't worry because he is a friend with Ole no one really cares that he is any good. He could be his fecking dad it wouldn't matter. Hope he comes and helps Ole and the club to move us in the right direction.
 
Adnan said:
His work as a DoF has been very impressive and Barcelona have made him offers to take the job at their club. And Barca wouldn't do that if he wasn't very impressive at his job.
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Barca haven't made him offers for him to be their DOF. Jordi admitted himself that a few years ago he spoke with Bartomeu about returning to the club but under what role was never finalised and I very much doubt if his surname wasn't Cruyff he'd still be in contact with Barca.
As for his experience as DOF in Israel, I really don't think that should qualify him for the job at one of the worlds top clubs.

Everyone knows our coaching set up but just a quick recap

Ole- Norway/Cardiff.
Phelan- Second to SAF about 300 years ago.
Carrick- first coaching job.
McKenna- never coached at higher than U18 level.
Pert our conditioning coach- An assistant coach from vancouver whitecaps.
And if Jordi were to join- A few years as DOF in Israel.

Don't know about you but I'd rather get people in with a lot better CV than the names above if we're actually thinking of winning the PL or CL anytime soon. What we have sounds better suited to a United Nations peace keeping force.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Barca haven't made him offers for him to be their DOF. Jordi admitted himself that a few years ago he spoke with Bartomeu about returning to the club but under what role was never finalised and I very much doubt if his surname wasn't Cruyff he'd still be in contact with Barca.
As for his experience as DOF in Israel, I really don't think that should qualify him for the job at one of the worlds top clubs.

Everyone knows our coaching set up but just a quick recap

Ole- Norway/Cardiff.
Phelan- Second to SAF about 300 years ago.
Carrick- first coaching job.
McKenna- never coached at higher than U18 level.
Pert our conditioning coach- An assistant coach from vancouver whitecaps.
And if Jordi were to join- A few years as DOF in Israel.

Don't know about you but I'd rather get people in with a lot better CV than the names above if we're actually thinking of winning the PL or CL anytime soon. What we have sounds better suited to a United Nations peace keeping force.
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Totally agree with you in this. I think Ole needs more experience in his coaching team, much more.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Barca haven't made him offers for him to be their DOF. Jordi admitted himself that a few years ago he spoke with Bartomeu about returning to the club but under what role was never finalised and I very much doubt if his surname wasn't Cruyff he'd still be in contact with Barca.
As for his experience as DOF in Israel, I really don't think that should qualify him for the job at one of the worlds top clubs.

Everyone knows our coaching set up but just a quick recap

Ole- Norway/Cardiff.
Phelan- Second to SAF about 300 years ago.
Carrick- first coaching job.
McKenna- never coached at higher than U18 level.
Pert our conditioning coach- An assistant coach from vancouver whitecaps.
And if Jordi were to join- A few years as DOF in Israel.

Don't know about you but I'd rather get people in with a lot better CV than the names above if we're actually thinking of winning the PL or CL anytime soon. What we have sounds better suited to a United Nations peace keeping force.
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Not sure who’s running their club worse the venky’s at Blackburn or the glazers.

If football club owner families were Westerosi houses, surely the glazers would be the Freys.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Barca haven't made him offers for him to be their DOF. Jordi admitted himself that a few years ago he spoke with Bartomeu about returning to the club but under what role was never finalised and I very much doubt if his surname wasn't Cruyff he'd still be in contact with Barca.
As for his experience as DOF in Israel, I really don't think that should qualify him for the job at one of the worlds top clubs.

Everyone knows our coaching set up but just a quick recap

Ole- Norway/Cardiff.
Phelan- Second to SAF about 300 years ago.
Carrick- first coaching job.
McKenna- never coached at higher than U18 level.
Pert our conditioning coach- An assistant coach from vancouver whitecaps.
And if Jordi were to join- A few years as DOF in Israel.

Don't know about you but I'd rather get people in with a lot better CV than the names above if we're actually thinking of winning the PL or CL anytime soon. What we have sounds better suited to a United Nations peace keeping force.
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What qualified Monchi and Zorc to be DoFs at Sevilla and Dortmund? Both were hired due their strong links with the clubs. Barcelona follow the same model, so do Bayern with ex player Salihamidzic in the role. Real Madrid the same with Zidane in the role in recent years and Valdano in the past. PSG with ex player Leonardo as their sporting director. It's actually seen as the way to go at big successful clubs and there's no reason someone like Cruyff couldn't do what the the likes of Monchi or Zorc have done with minimal experience. Being a DoF at a huge club isn't as difficult as some think as proven by the aforementioned clubs by hiring people who are affiliated with the club which is seen as beneficial.

I'd like to see someone like Rangnick come in but if Ole is our manager in the mid to longterm then it's sensible to get someone he is comfortable working with because a DoF is only successful if he has a good rapport/understanding with the headcoach, or otherwise it ends up being a problem for both. Cruyff ticks alot of boxes and has also built up networks/contacts around Europe and the world according to reports and is also a qualified coach and understands the game very well from a coaching/tactical standpoint.

Clubs like Dortmund/Barca/Bayern etc hire in house, not solely because of what they've done in the past, but rather what they can do in the future. They don't even consider the likes of Monchi, Rangnick, Campos as better candidates than people that are affiliated to their clubs who they believe can do the job just aswell.

There's actually very good English candidates that I believe could do a very good job for us too.
 
The only guy to my knowledge, and when you think of some of the strong characters we've had at the club during SAF's tenure, that stopped a training session and told the coaches they were doing it wrong with SAF looking on, there's Dutch arrogance, and then there's Cruyff arrogance!
 
Some of you need to seek medical attention.

Seems like he's done a very good job no matter where he's gone. He would be a good appointment, it also means Woodward would be less involved with footballing matters which is always a good thing.
 
Him as technical director is better than no technical director at all, no matter how much Ole and him will sit at their office and look at old Manchester United replays.
 
ash_86 said:
Would be a very good move IMO. We need the entire club pulling in one direction.
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Exactly it would be the stupidest move to put someone in with a completely different philosophy and never worked with a manager that we're clearly backing now. Incremental progress, is still progress.
red thru&thru said:
What are Cruyff's credentials to suggest he can do this job?
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He has been a sporting director at 2 clubs previously.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It would certainly add to the 'Old Boys Club' vibe (yet again) with another pally-pally former player in a position of authority. I just wish we would burn all this bullshit and just appoint a top DOF overseeing a top manager paired with top coaching staff with absolutely no requirement for being a former United player to be in any of those slots.

I don't think we'll appoint one at all those to be honest. But someone like Cruyff would probably be more likely than any of the previously mentioned guys.
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Pity we dont have top posters
 
As many have pointed out here, if we are going to have a DoF it has to be someone that works well with both OGS and - yeah - Woodward. Or it will not work.
This idea of us employing a DoF who will just come in and impose his will on OGS and somehow overrule Woodward upwards in the hierarchy its a fantasy. It needs to be the right person, and I for one is not bothered if it takes time. And for the thousand time: a DoF will not change Woodwards role or responsibilities one bit, it will just change the reporting structure at the club. Even if I am for it in general, such an appointment is so overrated in the effect it will have.
Just installing a new organizational position will not help in itself. Arsenal have both a Head of Football as well as a Technical Director now. Look at how that is shaping up for them.
 
Johan07 said:
As many have pointed out here, if we are going to have a DoF it has to be someone that works well with both OGS and - yeah - Woodward. Or it will not work.
This idea of us employing a DoF who will just come in and impose his will on OGS and somehow overrule Woodward upwards in the hierarchy its a fantasy. It needs to be the right person, and I for one is not bothered if it takes time. And for the thousand time: a DoF will not change Woodwards role or responsibilities one bit, it will just change the reporting structure at the club. Even if I am for it in general, such an appointment is so overrated in the effect it will have.
Just installing a new organizational position will not help in itself. Arsenal have both a Head of Football as well as a Technical Director now. Look at how that is shaping up for them.
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Bolded part is spot-on. Woodward will never give up any power, as long as he's around. A DoF that could bring an improvement would need to be a slick operator who can brown-nose Woody well enough and sell him good ideas. But, why would somebody world-class want to be Woody's jest?
 
I don't get why some would be opposed to Cruyff just because he's been at the club or is friends with Ole. I had to look up his credentials but it seems he's been working as a Director of Football since 2010 and has been successful in that role at 2 different clubs. They may be clubs at a much lower level, but surely close to a decade of experience and good performance are exactly the sort of qualifications we're looking for.
 
Adnan said:
What qualified Monchi and Zorc to be DoFs at Sevilla and Dortmund? Both were hired due their strong links with the clubs. Barcelona follow the same model, so do Bayern with ex player Salihamidzic in the role. Real Madrid the same with Zidane in the role in recent years and Valdano in the past. PSG with ex player Leonardo as their sporting director. It's actually seen as the way to go at big successful clubs and there's no reason someone like Cruyff couldn't do what the the likes of Monchi or Zorc have done with minimal experience. Being a DoF at a huge club isn't as difficult as some think as proven by the aforementioned clubs by hiring people who are affiliated with the club which is seen as beneficial.

I'd like to see someone like Rangnick come in but if Ole is our manager in the mid to longterm then it's sensible to get someone he is comfortable working with because a DoF is only successful if he has a good rapport/understanding with the headcoach, or otherwise it ends up being a problem for both. Cruyff ticks alot of boxes and has also built up networks/contacts around Europe and the world according to reports and is also a qualified coach and understands the game very well from a coaching/tactical standpoint.

Clubs like Dortmund/Barca/Bayern etc hire in house, not solely because of what they've done in the past, but rather what they can do in the future. They don't even consider the likes of Monchi, Rangnick, Campos as better candidates than people that are affiliated to their clubs who they believe can do the job just aswell.

There's actually very good English candidates that I believe could do a very good job for us too.
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Good Post. You seem to have covered a lot of the angles. Apologies for not being able to do the same but I'm a bit short of time.

Personally I don't think what we have at the club on the coaching side is good enough to get us back to being champions and adding someone else who would be another who would be learning on the job for me isn't the way to go. I think for DOF we need someone neutral between Ole and Ed. Someone like Paul Mitchell would of been perfect for us but he unfortunately didn't want to come.

I would love to get Rangnick myself but the dream scenario for me would be to get Nagelsmann and Rangnick. It's true they have no affiliation to the club but tbh I would prefer to see our coaching staff more modern and progressive than what we're seeing now. I'm not saying Ole is doing a terrible job but just because he gets the club doesn't mean there isn't better out there.

Don't get me wrong. If we had Nagelsmann and his coaching staff at United and Rangnick didn't want to come then maybe someone like Jordi would be an ideal candidate but at the minute adding another unknown to the average already here for me wouldn't be a good idea.
 
Ainu said:
I don't get why some would be opposed to Cruyff just because he's been at the club or is friends with Ole. I had to look up his credentials but it seems he's been working as a Director of Football since 2010 and has been successful in that role at 2 different clubs. They may be clubs at a much lower level, but surely close to a decade of experience and good performance are exactly the sort of qualifications we're looking for.
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Which clubs has he been successful in exactly?
 
the chameleon said:
Not sure who’s running their club worse the venky’s at Blackburn or the glazers.

If football club owner families were Westerosi houses, surely the glazers would be the Freys.
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Nah. The Freys are actually good with money. I think they would be the Westerlings. They get associated with bigger names and they still ruin everything.
 
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Adnan said:
What qualified Monchi and Zorc to be DoFs at Sevilla and Dortmund? Both were hired due their strong links with the clubs. Barcelona follow the same model, so do Bayern with ex player Salihamidzic in the role. Real Madrid the same with Zidane in the role in recent years and Valdano in the past. PSG with ex player Leonardo as their sporting director. It's actually seen as the way to go at big successful clubs and there's no reason someone like Cruyff couldn't do what the the likes of Monchi or Zorc have done with minimal experience. Being a DoF at a huge club isn't as difficult as some think as proven by the aforementioned clubs by hiring people who are affiliated with the club which is seen as beneficial.

I'd like to see someone like Rangnick come in but if Ole is our manager in the mid to longterm then it's sensible to get someone he is comfortable working with because a DoF is only successful if he has a good rapport/understanding with the headcoach, or otherwise it ends up being a problem for both. Cruyff ticks alot of boxes and has also built up networks/contacts around Europe and the world according to reports and is also a qualified coach and understands the game very well from a coaching/tactical standpoint.

Clubs like Dortmund/Barca/Bayern etc hire in house, not solely because of what they've done in the past, but rather what they can do in the future. They don't even consider the likes of Monchi, Rangnick, Campos as better candidates than people that are affiliated to their clubs who they believe can do the job just aswell.

There's actually very good English candidates that I believe could do a very good job for us too.
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Wow. Superb post that sums up all my feelings towards a DOF. Very rewarding reading a well though and rational post on here. Not that often now a days.
 
lRed said:
Do you think the Glazer are deliberately avoiding the signing in the hierarchy of a DoF ?
I'm trying to understand why they would do that, despite the fact they don't know Football at all I mean.
I could understand why Woodward isn't pushing for it because it wouldn't be a good news for him but the owners, don't they realise it would take us forward as a club and have effect on the pitch, long term thinking.
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I think its a myriad of complex issues with roots in the conservative culture of the club, I think Woodward was once all for it particularly after the Van Gaal and Mourinho issues where we spent vast sums of money on ill suited players. Now with this much vaunted cultural reset there seems to be a reluctance to step on the manager's toes because when you bring in a DOF you are basically demoting the manager hence the noises that started to come out of Old Trafford about the role not being superior to the manager, how the manager would have veto power and how the incoming TD won't be in control of recruitment. When you consider that alongside what Rangnick and Campos said about the United job in relation to authority you get the sense that discussions were held with the two but both expressed apprehensions over the authority they would be granted.

If we look at how our former players with access in the media went after LVG and Mourinho you get the feeling that there is a strong resistance in and around the club about moving on from the Fergie era and anyone who does things differently will be viewed with suspicion. If they could be that hostile to managers working in the role that Fergie worked I dread to think how they could be to someone who has taken power from the manager, who also happens to be a mate and brings in one or two signings their mate doesn't like.

Then there is Woodward and his mates who seem to enjoy transfer business too much for men so limited in their skills. If they bring in a DOF/TD then suddenly there is another person with access to the owners and to the fans, someone who could have stood with Jose when he demanded a CB last season because he is skilled enough to come to the same conclusion that Jose had reached with regard to that CB. That possibility alone is enough to make Woodward stall especially after finding the perfect flak catcher in Ole who will keep the wolves at bay and take all the hit because he is so happy to be in his dream job, a dream he would never have fulfilled had it not been for Woodward.
 
Adnan said:
What qualified Monchi and Zorc to be DoFs at Sevilla and Dortmund? Both were hired due their strong links with the clubs. Barcelona follow the same model, so do Bayern with ex player Salihamidzic in the role. Real Madrid the same with Zidane in the role in recent years and Valdano in the past. PSG with ex player Leonardo as their sporting director. It's actually seen as the way to go at big successful clubs and there's no reason someone like Cruyff couldn't do what the the likes of Monchi or Zorc have done with minimal experience. Being a DoF at a huge club isn't as difficult as some think as proven by the aforementioned clubs by hiring people who are affiliated with the club which is seen as beneficial.

I'd like to see someone like Rangnick come in but if Ole is our manager in the mid to longterm then it's sensible to get someone he is comfortable working with because a DoF is only successful if he has a good rapport/understanding with the headcoach, or otherwise it ends up being a problem for both. Cruyff ticks alot of boxes and has also built up networks/contacts around Europe and the world according to reports and is also a qualified coach and understands the game very well from a coaching/tactical standpoint.

Clubs like Dortmund/Barca/Bayern etc hire in house, not solely because of what they've done in the past, but rather what they can do in the future. They don't even consider the likes of Monchi, Rangnick, Campos as better candidates than people that are affiliated to their clubs who they believe can do the job just aswell.

There's actually very good English candidates that I believe could do a very good job for us too.
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Clubs tend to have produce players with football brain. Milan for example produced the likes of Cesare Maldini, Ancelotti and Rijkaard. Juventus produced the likes of Zidane, Conte and Deschamps. We produced erm Brucey? Charlton? Mr Cardiff? Gary Neville of Valencia? So we are forced to look at the outside.

Regarding Cruyff he's been involved with Valletta, AEK Larnaca, the great Maccabi Tel Avviv and something in China. Do you think that these are the sort of contacts United need to bring in players of our level?
 
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Jordi did a really good job with Haifa if I recall correctly.

I remember them doing OK in Europe while he was still there.

But, Man United is a different task...
 
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devilish said:
Clubs tend to have produce players with football brain. Milan for example produced the likes of Cesare Maldini, Ancelotti and Rijkaard. Juventus produced the likes of Zidane, Conte and Deschamps. We produced erm Brucey? Charlton? Mr Cardiff? Gary Neville of Valencia? So we are forced to look at the outside.

Regarding Cruyff he's been a DOF with Valletta, AEK Larnaca, the great Maccabi Tel Avviv and something in China. Do you think that these are the sort of contacts United need to bring in players of our level?
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When you're the DoF of a giant like Man United the network and contacts increase ten fold. Cruyff needs to prove himself in the interview process and sell his vision to the club which is what is important. Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Ajax gave the roles to people affiliated to their clubs not based on what they had done in the past in the role, but rather what they can do in the future. And all that was ascertained during a interview process.
 
Adnan said:
.

When you're the DoF of a giant like Man United the network and contacts increase ten fold. Cruyff needs to prove himself in the interview process and sell his vision to the club which is what is important. Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Ajax gave the roles to people affiliated to their clubs not based on what they had done in the past in the role, but rather what they can do in the future. And all that was ascertained during a interview process.
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Really? Cause I can't see anything that remotely suggest that. United had been taken for a ride by agents for the past 7 years. If its true that Ole has more salary then Klopp (previous contract) then we can say that even our former players are taking us for a ride as well cause there's no way that a manager who had failed at any level that is not amateur level should be paid as much. We've got one of the highest salary bills in Europe and a mid table level squad to show for it.

As said, most clubs have a history of raising into position people of their own. That's because they have a solid structure which allows them to do so. A former player is introduced to an experienced set up were he's shown the ropes up until he doesn't need help anymore and in turn he becomes the 'veteran'. Therefore the cycle goes on and on until, somehow along the line it breaks and it needs to be built again. For example when Juventus had to do a clean up because of Calciopoli, their only option was to go for outside talent. That outside talent translated into the very experienced Marotta whose got a CV as long as my arm. Marotta brought in Paratici from Sampdoria. Then once the structure was built, people 'closer' to home were brought in like for example Conte.

United need to build a solid structure lead by experienced people on top of their game. Then once that is in place then sure we can start adding people of our own and hope that they would learn and one they become protagonists in our rebuilt. Unfortunately what we seem to have are a bunch of people who are learning on the job (Woodward, Ole, Carrick, Mckenna and possibly Cruyff) with the assistance of the occasional dinosaur (Phelan)
 
devilish said:
Which clubs has he been successful in exactly?
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AEK Larnaca in the Cypriot first division and Maccabi Tel Aviv in the Israeli Premier League. So yeah, a much lower level but they did enjoy some success in European competitions, which is huge for clubs like that. It's hard to say how that translates to the level of Manchester United of course. I'm not saying that automatically makes him a suitable candidate for the role at United, but I think based on those successes it's harsh to dismiss him as just Ole's mate or anything like that.
 
devilish said:
Really? Cause I can't see anything that remotely suggest that. United had been taken for a ride by agents for the past 7 years. If its true that Ole has more salary then Klopp (previous contract) then we can say that even our former players are taking us for a ride as well cause there's no way that a manager who had failed at any level that is not amateur level should be paid as much. We've got one of the highest salary bills in Europe and a mid table level squad to show for it.

As said, most clubs have a history of raising into position people of their own. That's because they have a solid structure which allows them to do so. A former player is introduced to an experienced set up were he's shown the ropes up until he doesn't need help anymore and in turn he becomes the 'veteran'. Therefore the cycle goes on and on until, somehow along the line it breaks and it needs to be built again. For example when Juventus had to do a clean up because of Calciopoli, their only option was to go for outside talent. That outside talent translated into the very experienced Marotta whose got a CV as long as my arm. Marotta brought in Paratici from Sampdoria. Then once the structure was built, people 'closer' to home were brought in like for example Conte.

United need to build a solid structure lead by experienced people on top of their game. Then once that is in place then sure we can start adding people of our own and hope that they would learn and one they become protagonists in our rebuilt. Unfortunately what we seem to have are a bunch of people who are learning on the job (Woodward, Ole, Carrick, Mckenna and possibly Cruyff) with the assistance of the occasional dinosaur (Phelan)
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United being taken for a ride by agents in the last 7 years is one of the reasons we have this thread. And Ole getting paid more than Klopp has been debunked by a number of posters on here. United also had solid foundations in that regard dating back to Walter Crickmer and Jimmy Murphy who laid the foundations for Sir Matt and the reason Man Utd became the juggernaut it did. When Sir Alex makes a reference to how Bayern are run, it's a point worth considering imo.

Do clubs who have a history of having a structure, have that structure due to people affiliated to the club? I would say there's strong evidence of that at several historically big clubs which dates back several decades. And it's for that reason there isn't a clamour for the likes of Rangnick, Campos, Monchi etc among the elite clubs, because Madrid, Barca, Bayern could quite easily hire the likes if they choose to do so.

Did Juventus go for the best candidates for the role from a CV/resume perspective or did they go for the best fit for their club by targeting Italians domestically? If they had gone the CV/resume route then do you think the best answer was only confined to Italy rather than the rest of Europe? Marotta who you say has a CV 'as long as your arm' was at Como, Venezia, Atalanta and Sampdoria before being appointed the GM at Juventus in 2010. With such a CV did he have the credentials to lead Juve after the Calciopoli scandal considering the biggest club he'd been at was the equivalent of Everton in England?. Let's be honest here, if we target someone with a similar CV in England, you'd be calling him out for his lack of experience due to the task at hand but give Marotta a pass when the Juve job was much more difficult compared to United currently after the Calciopoli scandal. It's easy to say he did a great job with hindsight tbf. Juve could've hired someone who had a better CV than Marotta but the Sampdoria man was deemed the best man for Juve and we could learn from that.

I have absolutely no problems with hiring the likes of Rangnick but I also have no issues with hiring Cruyff or even DoFs from England for that matter. But the man brought in has to fit into the setup or there will be issues which would be detrimental to the club in the longrun. We could learn from Juve in that regard when they brought in Marotta from Italy's equivalent of Everton. It's better to have the right man for the club who would work well with the headcoach, rather than just appoint the best man due to his CV/resume.
 
Lash said:
Exactly it would be the stupidest move to put someone in with a completely different philosophy and never worked with a manager that we're clearly backing now. Incremental progress, is still progress.

He has been a sporting director at 2 clubs previously.
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Aah ok. Which clubs were these and what were his successes there?
 
Adnan said:
It's better to have the right man for the club who would work well with the headcoach, rather than just appoint the best man due to his CV/resume.
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Absolutely. Problem is, who do we have to can identify that person and his quality?
 
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