Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

[Johan07]

They've been saying this for a year, it’s a load of bollocks.

It takes a year at least to make such an important recruitment. Its going to happen and it will be against the will of Gill and Sir Alex and the traditions of the club. Its funny that Woodward gets so much slack on threads like this when he is probably one of the progressive elements at the club that is advocating this.

 

[NWRed]

Definitely a chair person of the transfer commitee rather than a traditional DoF then.

 

[Castia]

It takes a year at least to make such an important recruitment. Its going to happen and it will be against the will of Gill and Sir Alex and the traditions of the club. Its funny that Woodward gets so much slack on threads like this when he is probably one of the progressive elements at the club that is advocating this.

Nah no chance. I’m not having that it takes over a year? about 6-7 months ago they were interviewing Darren Fletcher and Rio Ferdinand for the job, they’re clueless.

 

[Scotty McT]

TWO. One must laugh at this point.

Do they get red lightsabers.

 

[Johan07]

Nah no chance. I’m not having that it takes over a year? about 6-7 months ago they were interviewing Darren Fletcher and Rio Ferdinand for the job, they’re clueless.

IMO the club already knows who they want, but there can be plenty of reasons why it cant be made official yet. And I rather would want us to wait til the right person is available; instead of doing what we have done with managers one too many times already.

 

[Judas]

IMO the club already knows who they want, but there can be plenty of reasons why it cant be made official yet. And I rather would want us to wait til the right person is available; instead of doing what we have done with managers one too many times already.

How you can have faith in the club when it comes to this decision, I've no idea. They've been teasing this for years, I admire your desire to believe though.

 

[LonelyFire]

IMO the club already knows who they want, but there can be plenty of reasons why it cant be made official yet. And I rather would want us to wait til the right person is available; instead of doing what we have done with managers one too many times already.

That they do - nobody.

 

[Catt]

How you can have faith in the club when it comes to this decision, I've no idea. They've been teasing this for years, I admire your desire to believe though.

What do they gain by that? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Judas]

What do they gain by that? Absolutely nothing.

False hope, and to make people believe we're looking forward and to fix things? But I don't think anyone is falling for it anymore.

 

[Pexbo]

Briefy Mcabrieferson today by the look of it.

 

[Johan07]

What do they gain by that? Absolutely nothing.

Its not a one party call. Its like saying why are we not announcing Sancho already. There are contractual issues and there should be respect towards whoever it will be`s current employer.

 

[clarkydaz]

What do they gain by that? Absolutely nothing.

Keep fans off their back as we slip into mediocrity

 

[Johan07]

How you can have faith in the club when it comes to this decision, I've no idea. They've been teasing this for years, I admire your desire to believe though.

The idea of a technical director/DoF was raised by LVG; he is on record on that.
Then we employed Mourinho who only wanted to come to United because he thought he would be the man in charge like Sir Alex. And he did not want to work under a DoF or even with a technical director if he did not say OK to him himself. Or with our scouting network or youth setup; he thought he would be able to run the club himself.
When Mourinho got sacked the idea was back on and still is. This is my unqualified opinion on what has happened.
I want a DoF but the idea that it will transform the club is so overrated. We need to change the basic structure of the club to make it not dependent on managers or DoFs. Both should be interchangable. If you think about it; its not that big of a difference from a DoF (however you define it which is a question in itself). Both can be unsuccessful (and sacked) and both need to adapt to the clubs core structure. Like Ajax or Barcelona. We have not had that core structure at United and it should be installed IMO.

 

[ravi2]

That they do - nobody.

This is the correct answer.

 

[AneRu]

Timing of this is what gets me. I mean there were multiple reports that we shelved the DOF/TD search during beginning of the season.

Aye, it could be a fan appeasement leak designed to take the focus off the poor results on this long break. Certainly with the timing and coming after Woodward had been dismissive of the appointment or any form of restructuring during the investors' call.

But part of me thinks that Woodward didn't want this move but such a move had been suggested to the Glazers after Mourinho's sacking. When Ole had a dream start culminating to that night in Paris Woodward convinced the Glazers that Ole was the man and that there were no flaws. Now we are on another shocking run, with Ole on the ropes, along with him Woodward (who may get away with a tap on the wrist) the decision could have been made for him.

What is interesting is Louis Campos suddenly throwing his hat in the ring in a not so subtle manner. Maybe word going round in the football circles is that United are looking for a DOF? Assuming its true, now we are seemingly going for two and with the emphasis on becoming the 'lightning rod' for recruitment when throughout the summer Woodward was briefing that the DOF won't be in control of recruitment! It seems to me that things could have been decided above Woodward's head and he is being forced into it.

 

[pocco]

The club is shameless with it's briefings. They really don't know how to approach things with the fans, instead further digging themselves into a deeper hole. They basically approach it like we're all idiots. People want actions, not words.

 

[pascell]

Wonder what the leak would be if we got beat by Liverpool, absolute shambles having to keep leaking stuff to save face. We don't need to keep hearing about it, you hire someone or you don't, if you keep telling people you are and you don't, it only makes you look even more incompetent.

At this point I'd rather have the imposters from the Herrera deal look over transfers than Woodward.

I really hope no one falls for this blatant BS, Ed said we're not hiring one only a few weeks ago to investors as the summer we had was a strong one.

 

[R'hllor]

Oh look statement of some sort for their customers. You dont wanna hire one, just say you will hire two, easy.

 

[Castia]

IMO the club already knows who they want, but there can be plenty of reasons why it cant be made official yet. And I rather would want us to wait til the right person is available; instead of doing what we have done with managers one too many times already.

You have a lot of faith in this board. It doesn’t take a year to make an appointment.

 

[United Hobbit]

IF we are looking into such things, itll be Ed deciding it's the lesser of the evils, it's what fans have called for so let's look into it (not definitely happening but give hope we are) thus taking the spotlight off both himself and Ole

IF we are getting one, and we are going to sack Ole, I hope we only get a caretaker in currently, until the DOF/ similar is in place (who interviews and appoints such people? Do the board have any say? Some of those are at least football people, Ed is not) then and only then do you look into a permanent manager

While I didn't know much about Campos until people linked some articles relating to him on here, he sounds great- hopefully IF we are indeed actually looking into hiring one Ed looks at his sales profits and that persuades him to appoint him

 

[Johan07]

You have a lot of faith in this board. It doesn’t take a year to make an appointment.

I dont.I dont think the board is involved at all. Its a company board with some directors even installed because of the rules of the NYSE:
I would be seriously surprised if anything involving a football was discussed during the board meetings.
This is an issue that is being discussed on an executive level and that means Woodward, the manager, the head of scouting, youth, etc. And it involves the Board of Advisors which is Gill, Sir Alex and Sir Bobby. The latter will strongly oppose a DoF rule of Manchester United. That conflict of interest is important to understand IMO.

 

[clarkydaz]

I dont.I dont think the board is involved at all. Its a company board with some directors even installed because of the rules of the NYSE:
I would be seriously surprised if anything involving a football was discussed during the board meetings.
This is an issue that is being discussed on an executive level and that means Woodward, the manager, the head of scouting, youth, etc. And it involves the Board of Advisors which is Gill, Sir Alex and Sir Bobby. The latter will strongly oppose a DoF rule of Manchester United. That conflict of interest is important to understand IMO.

Fergie recently said on camera a club should be run by football people. Where are you getting your assumption the advisory board dont?

 

[Johan07]

Fergie recently said on camera a club should be run by football people. Where are you getting your assumption the advisory board dont?

But I do think that. Who are better "football people" than those guys. Are they progressive advisors? Maybe not so much.
I think Woodward takes his advice from Sir Alex, Sir Bobby and Gill. And why should he not? Or how could he not?
But its not going to be advice to employ a DoF for example. Read one of Sir Alex books and you will understand why.

 

[AneRu]

The idea of a technical director/DoF was raised by LVG; he is on record on that.
Then we employed Mourinho who only wanted to come to United because he thought he would be the man in charge like Sir Alex. And he did not want to work under a DoF or even with a technical director if he did not say OK to him himself. Or with our scouting network or youth setup; he thought he would be able to run the club himself.
When Mourinho got sacked the idea was back on and still is. This is my unqualified opinion on what has happened.
I want a DoF but the idea that it will transform the club is so overrated. We need to change the basic structure of the club to make it not dependent on managers or DoFs. Both should be interchangable. If you think about it; its not that big of a difference from a DoF (however you define it which is a question in itself). Both can be unsuccessful (and sacked) and both need to adapt to the clubs core structure. Like Ajax or Barcelona. We have not had that core structure at United and it should be installed IMO.

I think our problems have more to do with the post Fergie hangover than anything else. The people in charge of the club are so used to having a man who handled everything and delivered the desired results on the pitch. We had no real scouting network and our academy had become dated. I think they just assumed that if we get another great manager then things will automatically fall in place as long as we back him.

This is why we had a system where the manager hands Woodward the list and he pursues targets on that list. The flaws in such a system are obviously that the managers we have had haven't been as thorough in their selection particularly the intangibles like mentality and they themselves weren't in awe of the club to be able to impart that sense of exceptionalism associated with Man Utd. To Jose and Van Gaal we were just another big club.

Jose, if given a big cheque, could build a winning team but the problem with United is we are run as a business. The source of the clash with him I think was the desire to sign a few experienced heads to guide our mentally fragile players. Under the Glazer model they want to spend big money on players like De Gea who come in and give you a ten year career not Matic or Sanchez.

I think if we get a DOF the recruitment will improve and if it does things will get better. I have always said if we are to do it we need to do it well and give him decision making authority over the manager because I think this is where we have gotten it wrong. We need someone capable of looking beyond the big names and seeing a manager who can implement whatever style demanded by the fans or board.

 

[Johan07]

I think our problems have more to do with the post Fergie hangover than anything else. The people in charge of the club are so used to having a man who handled everything and delivered the desired results on the pitch. We had no real scouting network and our academy had become dated. I think they just assumed that if we get another great manager then things will automatically fall in place as long as we back him.

This is why we had a system where the manager hands Woodward the list and he pursues targets on that list. The flaws in such a system are obviously that the managers we have had haven't been as thorough in their selection particularly the intangibles like mentality and they themselves weren't in awe of the club to be able to impart that sense of exceptionalism associated with Man Utd. To Jose and Van Gaal we were just another big club.

Jose, if given a big cheque, could build a winning team but the problem with United is we are run as a business. The source of the clash with him I think was the desire to sign a few experienced heads to guide our mentally fragile players. Under the Glazer model they want to spend big money on players like De Gea who come in and give you a ten year career not Matic or Sanchez.

I think if we get a DOF the recruitment will improve and if it does things will get better. I have always said if we are to do it we need to do it well and give him decision making authority over the manager because I think this is where we have gotten it wrong. We need someone capable of looking beyond the big names and seeing a manager who can implement whatever style demanded by the fans or board.

Good post.
IMO our big problem was that Sir Alex and Gill left behind a non-existent scouting network and a defunct youth system. Much more that than the old squad that they are always blamed for. Its the two major issues that needed to be solved and to the clubs credit they recognised them and (tried to) address them. If its money well spent is not something that can be judged yet. It needs time. A DoF is a part of reconstructing of the core structure of the club but not the universal solution that some posters here make it out to be.

 

[ash_86]

Aye, it could be a fan appeasement leak designed to take the focus off the poor results on this long break. Certainly with the timing and coming after Woodward had been dismissive of the appointment or any form of restructuring during the investors' call.

But part of me thinks that Woodward didn't want this move but such a move had been suggested to the Glazers after Mourinho's sacking. When Ole had a dream start culminating to that night in Paris Woodward convinced the Glazers that Ole was the man and that there were no flaws. Now we are on another shocking run, with Ole on the ropes, along with him Woodward (who may get away with a tap on the wrist) the decision could have been made for him.

What is interesting is Louis Campos suddenly throwing his hat in the ring in a not so subtle manner. Maybe word going round in the football circles is that United are looking for a DOF? Assuming its true, now we are seemingly going for two and with the emphasis on becoming the 'lightning rod' for recruitment when throughout the summer Woodward was briefing that the DOF won't be in control of recruitment! It seems to me that things could have been decided above Woodward's head and he is being forced into it.

I really really hope that's true or even a small transfer committee to start with. Anything is better than Woodward making these decisions.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

It takes a year at least to make such an important recruitment. Its going to happen and it will be against the will of Gill and Sir Alex and the traditions of the club. Its funny that Woodward gets so much slack on threads like this when he is probably one of the progressive elements at the club that is advocating this.

Not being funny but you should be careful about getting banned for obvious WUM posts like this. At least try and contribute to the discussion instead of trying to wind people up. Woodward is quoted by United legend Patrice Evra as saying he is the Director of Football at Manchester United and him and his lackeys are deliberately not signing one, or more likely no one is willing to join our set up as it's destined to fail with the Glazer's money men running the show behind closed doors.

You're either on a wind up or you can't see the wood for the trees, either way I pity ya, fella.

 

[Adnan]

TWO. One must laugh at this point.

Jason Burt goes on to add that, there's a expectation the person will be a former player or someone who understands the club.

 

[Adnan]

Looking at it entirely objectively, some reasons:

• Despite what people might think, hiring a DOF is no certainty in terms of future success. We don't trust the board to hire the right manager, why the hell would we trust them to hire the right DOF?
  
  
• The commitment is not to just one position. You hire a DOF and it changes the entire structure of the footballing operation. Lets say that things have not gone very well, he is already on his second manager and he wants to replace him too. Do you continue to trust your DOF and let him replace the manager, coaches and any other staff he thinks are the problem or do you replace the DOF? It's essentially shifting the responsibility and blame onto a different position. If you replace the DOF, do you embed the same trust and responsibility in the new man and let him replace any staff he sees unfit?
  
  
• You have to trust your DOF, otherwise there is no point in hiring him. What if your DOF doesn't trust the structure or personnel in your scouting setup? Are you prepare to let him terminate the contract of 10+ scouts and replace them with 10 more? Same goes for the coaching setup and that's before you even get to the squad.
  
  
• Does a DOF have to conform to the club's principles and methods or are you bringing in a DOF for contemporary ideas to bring the club up to speed in the modern game? What if we've been attempting to get a DOF in but each candidate has balked at the conditions set on the advice of SAF and SBC?

1. A DoF isn't a guarantee of success, that's true. And in football and in life there's no certainty. But if the board can appoint a DoF with knowledge of the game, then that will be a step in the right direction.

2. A DoF can make mistakes and probably will in some aspects of the role. But it's a better bet to have a DoF set the mid to longterm strategy rather than a Manager who will be occupied with coaching the first team. A Manager can only do so much.

3. The DoF will only take the reigns if he agrees with the way the scouting and structure is set at the club. The best bet for United in this regard is to hire someone from within the club, like the biggest clubs in the world have done, so they can make the tweaks necessary.

4. Sir Alex has gone on record and praised the way Bayern are run and they also have a DoF in ex player Salihamidzic in charge of overseeing the mid to longterm approach. So I doubt SAF would be against the idea or will put forth conditions on said DoF if we take his comments at face value. The clubs principles in our glorious past have always been built on attacking football with players encouraged to express themselves on the ball playing a swashbuckling style. A style that made Manchester United hugely successful and enamoured the club to many people around the world. We went against our ethos as a club in hiring David Moyes and are still suffering from the after effects. A DoF in this regard can provide the stability and the foundation to propel us back among the best, if we as a club pull in the same direction. Personally I'd like to see a DoF along with a progressive young attacking Coach brought to the club like Marco Rose or Julian Nagelsmann.

 

[wolvored]

It could also be that a number of people have already been interviewed for the post, but Woody wants to have too much say in the role and have turned it down. Imo Woody should just be the money man saying to a dof. You have x million for transfers and y million for wages to negotiate with this window.

 

[Invictus]

Van Der Sar and Patrice Evra with Erik Ten Hag as manager/coach. All will share the same vision and could bring the club forward.

Bit of a tangent from the general DoF discussion, but if we employ Ten Hag as the manager, I quite like the idea of adding someone like Wim Jonk or Ruben Jongkind to the staff (maybe in an advisory capacity where they can oversee the ideology of player development). Our academy has produced some good players in recent years to be fair to the current coaching structure, but Ten Hag would benefit more from a consolidated setup where the youngsters are uniformly educated in the methodology he will appreciate — making their characteristics and interpretation of the game more compatible with the manager's overarching vision, and their transition into the first team much smoother given they will have to make fewer adjustments.

Sky Sports profiled them a couple of years ago as key catalysts of the so called “Velvet Revolution” (a departure from the previous decade and return to more Cruyffian principles, which ultimately led Ajax to the Europa League final and a Champions League semi-final after 2 decades), and it's a good read...

In early 2011, with Ajax engaged in their latest bout of soul-searching, the club turned to the iconic figure of Johan Cruyff once more. He would return in an advisory role to implement his vision at all levels. An abrasive figure, not everyone welcomed the change. The chairman soon resigned. But the turmoil was not the only issue. Cruyff was not one for making notes. Jongkind was the man responsible for putting the great man's vision onto paper and into practice. He was an individual coach at Ajax at the time, working alongside the former international midfielder Wim Jonk. "Wim and I were like magnets and became close," says Jongkind. The pair had long sought to change the coaching emphasis at Ajax.

"We started to ask the key questions. What is our philosophy? What is our mission? What is our playing style? Then we wanted to ensure that our players could play attractive football. But what is attractive football? We must define it with key principles. Johan defined them and we wrote them down. We created this idea of principles and match tactics. These notes would form the basis of what became known as Ajax's velvet revolution. Ideas turned into strategy. The revolutionaries were empowered. In 2011, the so-called Cruyff Plan, implemented by men of his choosing - Dennis Bergkamp among those joining Jonk and Jongkind - was up and running. It would eventually lead to acrimony and even court cases.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ision-lives-on-in-ruben-jongkind-and-wim-jonk

Not a coincidence that they are developing players like De Ligt, Gravenberch, van de Beek in recent years and identified de Jong at an early age after losing their way in the early to mid 2000s, which had a profound impact on the Dutch national team as well.

 

[devilish]

TWO. One must laugh at this point.

I wonder if they will be jobs for the boys in the similar line of Ole, Carrick and Butt.

 

[Sassy Colin]

VDS may now be interested after all:

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/edwin-van-der-sar-makes-u-turn-over-pressing-manchester-united-role

 

[Adisa]

Someone should just come and save this club ffs!

 

[AneRu]

VDS may now be interested after all:

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/edwin-van-der-sar-makes-u-turn-over-pressing-manchester-united-role

He'd be mad to take a step down and become DOF when he would be in the conversation for next CEO the day the axe eventually falls on Woodward. There is no way Woodward will continue to push the club into ill thought managerial appointments and costly pay-offs and escaping unscathed forever, one of these days the penny will drop with the Glazers and they will fire him or the rebuild will become too costly and they sell up with the new owner firing Woodward as first order of business. Coming in to work under Woodward could also ruin Van Der Sar, I think he can afford to spend a few years at Ajax waiting for the next big job to open up or for the United one.

 

[sunama]

It takes a year at least to make such an important recruitment. Its going to happen and it will be against the will of Gill and Sir Alex and the traditions of the club. Its funny that Woodward gets so much slack on threads like this when he is probably one of the progressive elements at the club that is advocating this.

You seriously believe that it takes 12 months to find someone for the role of DoF?
This has to be a joke.
If we were looking for a CEO, we'd probably make a selection within 3 months. His start date might be further into the future, but the candidate can be chosen in 3 months.
If we are serious, we can complete all interviews/applications/selection within 30 days. Easy. His start date may be delayed, though.

The "DoF" story is spun whenever things are going badly and the board are looking incompetent. It doesn't take a genius to work this out, because it's been done so many times.

 

[Amir]

Jason Burt goes on to add that, there's a expectation the person will be a former player or someone who understands the club.

Only a career politician will now understand United, a club which has become a spin machine.

 

[JPRouve]

You seriously believe that it takes 12 months to find someone for the role of DoF?
This has to be a joke.
If we were looking for a CEO, we'd probably make a selection within 3 months. His start date might be further into the future, but the candidate can be chosen in 3 months.
If we are serious, we can complete all interviews/applications/selection within 30 days. Easy. His start date may be delayed, though.

The "DoF" story is spun whenever things are going badly and the board are looking incompetent. It doesn't take a genius to work this out, because it's been done so many times.

It took almost two years for Lyon to find their DOF, Paris needed almost 3 years to replace Leonardo. From memory it took Bayern a year to go from Sammer to Salihamidzic.

 

[AneRu]

Reading the article in The Athletic on Woodward, if just a quarter of those things are true then we are truly fecked with or without a DOF. There is no way such an attention seeking incompetent egomaniac and his cronies will deliver anything close to success at this club. Shocking arrogance and incompetence.

 

[Johan07]

You seriously believe that it takes 12 months to find someone for the role of DoF?
This has to be a joke.
If we were looking for a CEO, we'd probably make a selection within 3 months. His start date might be further into the future, but the candidate can be chosen in 3 months.
If we are serious, we can complete all interviews/applications/selection within 30 days. Easy. His start date may be delayed, though.

The "DoF" story is spun whenever things are going badly and the board are looking incompetent. It doesn't take a genius to work this out, because it's been done so many times.

Probably, if the desired person is already on a contract and does not want to leave or his club will not allow him to until before next season.
I am totally speculating here, but so is everyone else in this thread so: I think that we have already identified the person that will be assuming more of a technical director role than a pure DoF.
If anything this summers transfer window showed that the club have changed attitude and will wait for the right players to be available even if it weakens the team short-term. I am guessing this is something similar. And it might be the right idea to wait for the person we really want instead of just getting whomever is available. That has not been a successful strategy player-wise and it should not be here either.
But we will see I guess.