What like when Peter Kenyon left us for Chelsea and they never trumped us for our targets? Seriously, people need to come into the real world.
Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)
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That would effective mean:
Ideally a long-term manager will be identified and privately on board in the next month or two. Same with DoF and his team.
Definitely. If we sign any players in the January window, then I believe one of either the new DoF manager would have given their blessings!
Yeah, for me that would be ideal. But I'm not expecting the board to suddenly act with competence and foresight. Even if the whole world knows our troubles.
I'd prefer we haven't identified the man in less than 2 weeks.
However, it could mean we'd already identified them before sacking Jose.
I'm curious, can we hire Daniel Levy as DoF?
Doesn't he own a stake in Spurs?
What roles do marotta, paratici and nedved have? Also zubizareta and soriano?
I think we would have identified him a lot before Jose’s sacking. Jose was going to get sacked a long time ago. He just got sacked anyone thought, even the board themselves.
Marotta: CEO Inter
Paraticci: Sporting Director Juventus
Nedved: Vice Chairman Juventus
Floriano: CEO Man City.
Not sure about Zubizaretta mate
What would our fans be happy with, just a DoF or DoF and head of scouting, similar to RB Leipzeg?
Couldn't Solskjaer become something like a DOF? I like what he brings to the club. We can probably get a better long term manager than him but when we do, we'll not only lose him but his commitment and view on the club too. The point is to sustain our dna and steady the direction of the club without getting sidetracked going through different managers. He would be someone who knows what we need as a club and could oversee the footballing aspect and make sure the manager gets what he needs from Woodward. Also let Woodward know if the manager makes decisions that goes off-road from the direction we all want. It is a tricky role because the managers are usually the boss, but he would surely be diplomatic as a supervisor and very easy to work with. He is likeable, knowledgable and he has got the club best interest at heart. I see no reason why he wouldn't be interested. He could still probably be somewhat involved in a coaching capacity as well.
I’m not really buying this Director of Football thing as I doubt Fergie would have wanted it but if we do go with one I hope it’s a United legend to keep us on course if our manager is another outsider.
Maybe Van der Sar would be a good person for the role if he’d consider leaving Ajax, I’d say it’s a much higher honour than their CEO. But he’s maybe settled back in Holland now.
Maybe Van der Sar would be a good person for the role if he’d consider leaving Ajax, I’d say it’s a much higher honour than their CEO. But he’s maybe settled back in Holland now.
Hard one to call. Sometimes, you can end up acting on your heart rather than your head, if youytoo emotionally attached to the club. A bit like what G Neville alluded to. If we were down that route, I’d prefer someone like Edwin. Someone who understands the philosophy but is not blinded by the love of his club.
A Director of Football, who has already been a manager, and potentially still involved in coaching is a recipe for disaster. A few bad results and there will be calls for him to step back into the manager role. It would completely undermine whoever signs on to be the permanent manager.
Ole as DOF? I think people are getting a bit confused as to what the job of a DOF actually is.
Yeah, that part. But on the flip side his background in management and subsequent understanding of football helps him knowing a thing or two about what managers would be a good fit for our club, as an example. It would mean whoever we appoint as manager fits in with the direction we're going. It's the sort of source of stability we look to get now isn't it? I understand this might not be a traditional "DOF" or whatever but I just think it might work.
Of course it is a hard one. I never thought about it until just now. Say he works with Pochettino for a few years before he leaves for Madrid or something, and we need to look for a new manager. We would be ahead with a guy like Solskjaer there, the continuity would be there with him making sure we keep on our path. Maybe he is not the right man at all, I am just speculating here. He doesn't actually need to be the manager for us to use him as an asset to our football.
The Leipzig set up seems the way to go. Get Mitchell in as head of recruitment and a DoF who is experienced in dealing with high profile clubs and Agents. The DoF could also be involved in negotiations so it's important we hire someone who has excelled in the field. Not sure why people are mentioning ex players when they have no experience in the field.
Berta, Monchi, Paratici etc are the right profile of people we should be targeting. We don't want a rookie as DoF due to the importance of the position imo.
Are you suggesting we try to get Poch and install Ole as his assistant?
some of these posts are just hilarious
Personally I would follow something like the Leipzig model and I have been thinking quite about this since I was having a conversation with some guy in the Newbie forum a few months ago.
Ole has managed over 400 first team matches and won back to back Norwegian league titles. He has never expressed any desire to stop managing. In fact this deal has been worked out so that if he doesn't get the full time job at United he can go right back to managing Molde.
I don't think Ole would take a Director of Football job. He has clear ideas about how football should be played and he clearly enjoys coaching teams to carry out his ideas.
If we are getting a Director of Football it should be an experienced pro. Yes, it should be someone who gets Man United, but equally it should be someone who can do the job.
Running all footballing aspects of a giant like United isn't something a novice can do. This person won't just be a glorified scout, everything from contracts to travel logistics will be their job. If United was a well oiled machine you'd give it to an ex pro like Ajax or Bayern do. However there is a lot to suggest that our first Director of Football may need to assess if we're fit for purpose and make significant changes. I don't want someone learning on the job in these circumstances. It should be someone like Monchi.
Yeah, I'd go with that. Point is: We get the sort of players that fit with our style, and we get the sort of managers that works with that style. That means our work in the transfer-market will be mostly self-sufficient from any manager, thus smooths out the transition from one manager to another. Problem is we have no "style", so if we trust an outside guy to come in and decide the direction thats fine. Hopefully we wont fire the DOF later because we didn't have the right guy to hire him My point was only to suggest that Ole seems to have the right view of the type of football we all like and might have the right skillset to supervise and plan our direction with other specialists we bring in.
Don't feel afraid to educate me if I'm off the mark with my posts. I don't have much knowledge of running a club and certainly don't know the best way to take our club forward, but I guess the less abstract we get the closer we are. If we can't actually put into words exactly what we want to happen or try to write down how to archive it, then how can we expect the club to? Just saying lets get a DOF and fix everything as some does doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
My point was only to suggest that Ole seems to have the right view of the type of football we all like and might have the right skillset to supervise and plan our direction with other specialists we bring in.Don't feel afraid to educate me if I'm off the mark with my posts. I don't have much knowledge of running a club and certainly don't know the best way to take our club forward, but I guess the less abstract we get the closer we are. If we can't actually put into words exactly what we want to happen or try to write down how to archive it, then how can we expect the club to? Just saying lets get a DOF and fix everything as some does doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
Thank you for caring to reply with some thought behind it. I think you are right, and I fully agree with everything you have said.
I’ve been saying for ages that we should follow the RB model. Tried and tested across 4 different teams in four different countries and it works. Just imagine what it could do with our recourses and prestige?!
Agreed. We should also keep an eye on Marco Rose and his assistant!
Although it is only the Austrian League I have heard good things about Marco Rose. He has only lost 6 games in 91, which is good by any standards.
Don't know much about his assistant Rene Maric but found this article interesting, the guys work “up to 100 hours a week, but most of the time it’s 70 or 80” phenomenal. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/19/chatroom-bootroom-rene-maric-modern-coach-salzburg
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Can someone more qualified than me please outline exactly what a DoF does because I believe many on this thread have absolutely no idea
I assume with my, admittedly limited, knowledge that a DoF would do all of the football-related jobs that Ed Woodward has been directly responsible for e.g. hiring managers, ‘managing’ managers, appointing scouts, medical staff etc...possibly negotiating contracts with sign-off from Ed?
I think people live in a Football Manager world where one bloke picks the team, scouts players, handles contract negotiations and drives the team bus
I assume with my, admittedly limited, knowledge that a DoF would do all of the football-related jobs that Ed Woodward has been directly responsible for e.g. hiring managers, ‘managing’ managers, appointing scouts, medical staff etc...possibly negotiating contracts with sign-off from Ed?
I think people live in a Football Manager world where one bloke picks the team, scouts players, handles contract negotiations and drives the team bus
I believe they would direct all things football, a football director if you will.
@Lentwood This article gives an insight into the work of a DoF..
For anyone that's interested..
Interview with the Athletic Bilbao Sporting Director if anyone's interested.
I'm not even sure the Director of Football will have responsibility for appointing the manager.
By far the most important part (for United at least) is management of the playing squad. The key is having the contacts to be able to do this in the most effective and efficient way possible.
Rather than signing Bailly, Lindelof and then wanting Maguire/Mina for inflated prices less than 12 months after they moved for significantly less money, the job of a Director of Football is to identify the appropriate targets (in conjunction with Woodward the manager and scouting department) and plan the long term recruitment strategy. Identify targets, meet with agents, ensure targets actually want to join, find players like Alderweireld with contract clauses, etc.
It might be that the decision is to wait 12 months for the target to be available or more affordable but it's about being proactive with a long term strategy rather than be reactive and coming up with a new list every 6-12 months.
I never get the impression that the hierarchy at United are particularly well connected. They seem to rely very heavily on the manager's connections, paying huge fees to agents to broker deals or paying massively over the odds.
Love your post.From @Adnan post.
'Coach' here is referring to the 'manager'.
Michael Zorc of Borussia Dortmund said:
'Coach' here is referring to the 'manager'.
Different club have their own 'DOF', each 'DOFs' have different roles in a different system of hierarchy and responsibilities.
DOF can either be one DOF acting as the head backed by assistants or a collaborative work of many let's say 2-5 that make up the personnel of a 'DOF'.
Atm, United don't have an official Director of Football, but we sure do have several employees that acts as that.
Our current unofficial 'DOF' department are made up of 5-6 known members "working together" sort of ,
DOF can either be one DOF acting as the head backed by assistants or a collaborative work of many let's say 2-5 that make up the personnel of a 'DOF'.
Atm, United don't have an official Director of Football, but we sure do have several employees that acts as that.
Matthew Judge is unlikely to encounter such hassle. He does not have a photo on his Linkedin page and his title at United is head of corporate development but Jose Mourinho felt Judge's role in the Alexis Sanchez saga worthy of mentioning.
"I know my people is doing everything they can," Mourinho said. "The owners with the green light, Mr Woodward working hard with Matt Judge and everybody is giving everything they can and I think they are going to be successful."
Judge joined United in 2012 and has assisted Woodward with transfer negotiations since early 2016. Like Woodward, Judge has come from a financial background, having obtained a masters degree in economics and finance at Bristol University - where Woodward is an alumni - and spent 13 years in investment banking. Judge primarily negotiates fees and the players' contracts.
His elevation to transfer negotiator has coincided with a more measured transfer window strategy; United have only signed one player beyond July in the last two summer transfer windows and the Paul Pogba deal was announced hours before the 2016 Community Shield.
Mourinho's early preparations are the chief reason behind United's improved policy but it is not a coincidence Woodward's negotiating skills have improved with the assistance of Judge. The blindsiding of Chelsea and Manchester City with the Romelu Lukaku and Sanchez deals were genuine coups and United have the financial muscle to unnerve Real Madrid.
United never considered a director of football as they prepared for Mourinho's arrival in 2016 and the autonomy enables the Portuguese to have the final say on signings based on the analysis he receives. A senior club source indicated the structure is 'fundamentally the same one' as it was when Woodward's predecessor David Gill oversaw negotiations with Sir Alex Ferguson.
John Murtough, United's head of football development, does not occupy a directorial role but helps Woodward and Judge on deals. The former Premier League head of elite performance greeted Sanchez as he arrived at Manchester Airport last week.
For more informal discussions, Judge may touch base with a player's representatives. It is understood he was tasked with gauging Paris Saint-Germain Marquinhos's interest in a move to United as the Brazilian explored the possibility of moving to England.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-transfer-deadline-day-14221328
"I know my people is doing everything they can," Mourinho said. "The owners with the green light, Mr Woodward working hard with Matt Judge and everybody is giving everything they can and I think they are going to be successful."
Judge joined United in 2012 and has assisted Woodward with transfer negotiations since early 2016. Like Woodward, Judge has come from a financial background, having obtained a masters degree in economics and finance at Bristol University - where Woodward is an alumni - and spent 13 years in investment banking. Judge primarily negotiates fees and the players' contracts.
His elevation to transfer negotiator has coincided with a more measured transfer window strategy; United have only signed one player beyond July in the last two summer transfer windows and the Paul Pogba deal was announced hours before the 2016 Community Shield.
Mourinho's early preparations are the chief reason behind United's improved policy but it is not a coincidence Woodward's negotiating skills have improved with the assistance of Judge. The blindsiding of Chelsea and Manchester City with the Romelu Lukaku and Sanchez deals were genuine coups and United have the financial muscle to unnerve Real Madrid.
United never considered a director of football as they prepared for Mourinho's arrival in 2016 and the autonomy enables the Portuguese to have the final say on signings based on the analysis he receives. A senior club source indicated the structure is 'fundamentally the same one' as it was when Woodward's predecessor David Gill oversaw negotiations with Sir Alex Ferguson.
John Murtough, United's head of football development, does not occupy a directorial role but helps Woodward and Judge on deals. The former Premier League head of elite performance greeted Sanchez as he arrived at Manchester Airport last week.
For more informal discussions, Judge may touch base with a player's representatives. It is understood he was tasked with gauging Paris Saint-Germain Marquinhos's interest in a move to United as the Brazilian explored the possibility of moving to England.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-news/man-utd-transfer-deadline-day-14221328
...United's scouting department - headed up by ex-Everton talent spotter Steve Brown...
Brown works closely with scouting auditor Mark Platt, formerly a performance analyst, who collates data from United's branch of more than 50 scouts across the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...g-sporting-director-Jose-Mourinho-charge.html
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../man-utd-scouts-woodward-appointment-15292551
Brown works closely with scouting auditor Mark Platt, formerly a performance analyst, who collates data from United's branch of more than 50 scouts across the world.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...g-sporting-director-Jose-Mourinho-charge.html
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../man-utd-scouts-woodward-appointment-15292551
Our current unofficial 'DOF' department are made up of 5-6 known members "working together" sort of ,
Ed Woodward -- CEO, responsible of overseeing the whole football club operations. clueless about football seemingly, did the right thing moving further and further away from the football, still have the power
Matt Judge -- Transfer Negotiator and Contract Negotiator, with other clubs and player agents. shit job at negotiation, often overprice and over-wages
John M -- Head of football development (whatever that means), assist Judge in transfers.
Steve Brown -- Head of scouting department.
Mark Platt -- Scouting auditor, assist Steve B.
(Manager) -- Decides the football philosophy, helps scouting and recruiting players, big say in first team transfers and also players contracts extension.
*referencing to Moyes, LVG and Mourinho modus operandis*
Matt Judge -- Transfer Negotiator and Contract Negotiator, with other clubs and player agents. shit job at negotiation, often overprice and over-wages
John M -- Head of football development (whatever that means), assist Judge in transfers.
Steve Brown -- Head of scouting department.
Mark Platt -- Scouting auditor, assist Steve B.
(Manager) -- Decides the football philosophy, helps scouting and recruiting players, big say in first team transfers and also players contracts extension.
*referencing to Moyes, LVG and Mourinho modus operandis*
@Rifer , the problem is it's basically impossible to figure out roles based on pieced together articles about our backroom staff. I doubt any of us know what any of these guys really do because United (not uniquely, to be fair) has historically shoved the manager to the forefront and all of the backroom staff far into the background.
The MEN piece that you cited dissolves into a puff piece that feels like it's been leaked straight from Woodward when you see stuff like this: "but it is not a coincidence Woodward's negotiating skills have improved with the assistance of Judge. The blindsiding of Chelsea and Manchester City with the Romelu Lukaku and Sanchez deals were genuine coups and United have the financial muscle to unnerve Real Madrid." Who knows what Judge's role really is? He's listed as the Head of Corporate Development, which is a pretty broad title. What's fair to say is that it's unnerving having someone with no real experience in football operations before 2016 being one of your lead transfer negotiators. So much of doing business in football seems to be predicated on pre-built relationships with other owners and directors and neither Judge nor, to a lesser extent, Woodward have much to go on there.
The stuff about the scouting department...I believe Steve Brown's role is more logistical and adminstrative. Platt's role is even more so. I don't think he's the head of scouting in the way that you're thinking. I believe that falls to a combination of Jim Lawlor and Marcel Bout at the first team level and Dave Harrison at the youth level.
Realistically, the DoF has been the manager and the manager alone.
The MEN piece that you cited dissolves into a puff piece that feels like it's been leaked straight from Woodward when you see stuff like this: "but it is not a coincidence Woodward's negotiating skills have improved with the assistance of Judge. The blindsiding of Chelsea and Manchester City with the Romelu Lukaku and Sanchez deals were genuine coups and United have the financial muscle to unnerve Real Madrid." Who knows what Judge's role really is? He's listed as the Head of Corporate Development, which is a pretty broad title. What's fair to say is that it's unnerving having someone with no real experience in football operations before 2016 being one of your lead transfer negotiators. So much of doing business in football seems to be predicated on pre-built relationships with other owners and directors and neither Judge nor, to a lesser extent, Woodward have much to go on there.
The stuff about the scouting department...I believe Steve Brown's role is more logistical and adminstrative. Platt's role is even more so. I don't think he's the head of scouting in the way that you're thinking. I believe that falls to a combination of Jim Lawlor and Marcel Bout at the first team level and Dave Harrison at the youth level.
Realistically, the DoF has been the manager and the manager alone.
Explain to me again why we need a DOF. Because I'm not one of those who believe having one would drastically improve our chances. I'm open to it, but I just don't see it as the be all end all.
Absolutely right. Whichever agent has his foot furthest through the door at any give time seems to play a major part as well.
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