Man United v Liverpool Post Match

Are the people who are constantly saying "it's only pre-season!, the result doesn't matter!" actually paying attention to the complaints? They aren't about the result, but about the exact same type of performance we've been seeing the whole of Mourinho's tenure. Do people really expect us to suddenly play different when all the first-team players come back? The same first team players that has seen us play some of the worst Man Utd football of the last 20 years? Nothing is going to change - spunking another £150 million isn't fixing it either.
 
noodlehair said:
We had two players who would be in our strongest starting line up, and one of those was bailly, who only arguably would be in it, and only came in at the last minute due to smalling getting injured in the warm up.

It's not really a basis to judge anything is what I'm saying. Five of our starting line up were youth team players.

I'm not concerned about Liverpool beating our non team 4-1 in a friendly game, particularly given how the game was played with dodgy penalties being handed out and Sanchez being kicked every time he went near the ball. There we a different situation and attitude the two teams approached the game with.

I'm concerned that come the start of the season, our team won't have enough of our actual players back or up to speed.

Even with the players who weren't on world cup duty, which is literally half our squad, there was Shaw, Martial, Matic, Smalling missing on top of that. There is no team in the pl that can realistically compete at the level they want with two thirds of their squad missing.
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I'm not arguing whether you fielded a much weakened team that lacked alot of depth. I conceded that. I was just commenting on the point that we fielded a full strength team.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
If he is in a job next season, he will have all his players, bar any injuries, so no excuses then.
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He should not have any excuses now, he is considered a top manager and we pay him a ridiculous amount of money exactly for dealing with situations like these. If he is as great as he himself and his fanboys believe, then he should get the team to start performing somehow. The best always find a way, even when conditions are not the best.
 
JonDahl said:
Are the people who are constantly saying "it's only pre-season!, the result doesn't matter!" actually paying attention to the complaints? They aren't about the result, but about the exact same type of performance we've been seeing the whole of Mourinho's tenure. Do people really expect us to suddenly play different when all the first-team players come back? The same first team players that has seen us play some of the worst Man Utd football of the last 20 years? Nothing is going to change - spunking another £150 million isn't fixing it either.
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No they aren't paying attention. We all knew their was a chance we might lose, but at least have a go.
 
Trying to remain positive as I was at the end of last season, clear progression over the last two seasons, was hoping for a big summer and we've not got that so far.

I'm really starting to fear for the coming season if we continue the way we currently are. I know it's preseason and it shouldn't be used as a barometer of things to come, but we really have looked shit. Hopefully it changes when the rest of our squad return.

At the moment, all things point towards an outside top 4 finish.
 
Regardless of the result or the nature of the game, Herrera and Darmien, as two of our experienced players in that lineup, were F'in disgraceful.
 
TheFlagStaysDown said:
don't have energy to argue with you sorry, they played even more youngsters than us. I am not sure if youre blind or a fan of Mourinho, I am a fan of Manchester United not a manager who makes excuses just to defend himself. It was a big lie, first teamers against kids and if you believe that I feel for you
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No you spent all your energy having a meltdown over an insignificant friendly.

Consider making allowances for the occasion before you go on a wild rant, it was a nothing friendly involving two football clubs sharing one aim and one aim only; to improve the general fitness levels of their respective squads in preparation for the coming season and that was achieved.

If any more than 3 of the players that started last nights game begin against Leicester in ten days time, we will have serious problems. But that won't happen.
 
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whatagoodname said:
Surely the conversation is more about whether it's appropriate to say that to the media? You may be right, the players you listed may not be good enough, just doesnt do much for morale when you basically disown 70% of your touring preseason squad.
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You are right of course, the real issue is about 'outing' certain players in public, that's why Jose devides opinion, most managers would'nt do it, Jose does.
 
I remember when LVG joined and in pre season we smashed Madrid and Liverpool playing some of the best one touch football i've ever seen from United in a 5-3-2 formation ...then the season started and we played some of the worst football i've ever seen from United and couldnt shoot for shit. So forgive me if a pre-season with 9 third string players starting isn't applicable to the premier league season.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
You would presume Shaw until Young has had his allocated rest, but I just get the impression Young will try to come back early.
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I think your right, on that point i can't understand why the WC players all need a rest now, surely coming back 'early' and then taking a proper break during the season is not beyond planning.
 
mattunited1978 said:
Regardless of the result or the nature of the game, Herrera and Darmien, as two of our experienced players in that lineup, were F'in disgraceful.
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Don't know what's happened to Herrera but he seems to have forgotten how to play football, I used to really rate him now I just sort of worry when I see his name in the starting 11.
 
To me it is nothing to do with Liverpool or the performance and everything to do with creating a culture where the whole team works together from the bottom to the top. I felt like Jose's press conference missed an opportunity to show support for the whole squad, not just the chosen few. Some of those kids will have been made to feel 2 foot tall and inadequate, and that's not right. Most of those lads are just dipping their toe into 1st team football, I would have like for Jose to get behind them. Spun it as a positive, as a valuable lesson for the young guys in terms of what it takes to play at the highest level.
 
JonDahl said:
Are the people who are constantly saying "it's only pre-season!, the result doesn't matter!" actually paying attention to the complaints? They aren't about the result, but about the exact same type of performance we've been seeing the whole of Mourinho's tenure. Do people really expect us to suddenly play different when all the first-team players come back? The same first team players that has seen us play some of the worst Man Utd football of the last 20 years? Nothing is going to change - spunking another £150 million isn't fixing it either.
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If the players on the pitch aren't good enough to play good football, the selection obviously is important.

Liverpool vs Manchester United reserves was always going to be a mismatch. Expecting us to go toe to toe with them in that situation is unfair.

If Liverpool had fielded their second string against our first XI, we would have won 4-1 as well.

We got 81 points last season, and the squad will be stronger this year. You don't achieve that by playing as badly as you suggest.
 
Ace of Spades said:
He should not have any excuses now, he is considered a top manager and we pay him a ridiculous amount of money exactly for dealing with situations like these. If he is as great as he himself and his fanboys believe, then he should get the team to start performing somehow. The best always find a way, even when conditions are not the best.
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I see this «fanboy» expression being used a lot for people standing by their manager as a top red. What is that all about?
 
AltiUn said:
Don't know what's happened to Herrera but he seems to have forgotten how to play football, I used to really rate him now I just sort of worry when I see his name in the starting 11.
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Me too, his first couple of seasons here i thought he was class, couldnt believe van gaal left him out so often. Now, he looks like he's never plyed before.
 
iHicksy said:
I remember when LVG joined and in pre season we smashed Madrid and Liverpool playing some of the best one touch football i've ever seen from United in a 5-3-2 formation ...then the season started and we played some of the worst football i've ever seen from United and couldnt shoot for shit. So forgive me if a pre-season with 9 third string players starting isn't applicable to the premier league season.
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I agree and this is how I feel about the game but I must admit, there’s a nervousness at the back of my mind given our transfer activity and some of our performances last season.

A few poor results early on and the fans will really turn which could be disasterous for the season.
 
mattunited1978 said:
Me too, his first couple of seasons here i thought he was class, couldnt believe van gaal left him out so often. Now, he looks like he's never plyed before.
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Pending how our midfield does this season I wouldn't be against selling him next year if he has another poor season, with Fred being bought and Pereira and McTominay breaking through we should be able to get away with offloading him.
 
cyril C said:
I also recall Moyes seemed to have won all his pre-season on his 1st season at Utd .....
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Lost to a Thai All Star XI, lost to Yokohama F. Marinos, drew with Cerezo Osaka and AIK. Lost 3-1 to Sevilla in Rio Ferdinand's testimonial
Wins against an A-League All Stars XI and Kitchee
 
JonDahl said:
Are the people who are constantly saying "it's only pre-season!, the result doesn't matter!" actually paying attention to the complaints? They aren't about the result, but about the exact same type of performance we've been seeing the whole of Mourinho's tenure. Do people really expect us to suddenly play different when all the first-team players come back? The same first team players that has seen us play some of the worst Man Utd football of the last 20 years? Nothing is going to change - spunking another £150 million isn't fixing it either.
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Of course it matters. It's a result against our bitterest rival. Let's put it into context though. An entire first team 11-13 missing due to w/c and or injury. Fringe players like Darmian wanting off, no recognised Centre Forward and youngsters who have either been out on loan (TFM, Pereira etc) playing under a different system. People wonder why the performance was crap with no cohesion. Jesus wept.
 
Always disappointing to lose to that lot, but I don't really take much from pre season games. I can remember winning seven on the bounce during Van Gaal's first summer and then lost at home to Swansea on opening day.
 
From Mourinho's post match talk about the squad being 70% missing I expected Liverpool to be at full strength.

Watching the match this morning, it was 1-1 at half time.

2nd half they took off Mane and Salah and make loads of changes themselves. They probably had more "academy" players on the pitch than we did, but funnily enough those lads still managed to play football to a decent level.

Jose is just full of shit.
 
The damage wasn't done on the pitch last night. Jose did more damage in a 15 minute post match interview.

Board, Valencia, Martial, US fans, squad players..... everyone is to blame and fans are wasting their time turning up apparently.
 
Adam-Utd said:
From Mourinho's post match talk about the squad being 70% missing I expected Liverpool to be at full strength.

Watching the match this morning, it was 1-1 at half time.

2nd half they took off Mane and Salah and make loads of changes themselves. They probably had more "academy" players on the pitch than we did, but funnily enough those lads still managed to play football to a decent level.

Jose is just full of shit.
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Yep. The 2 sides that started were literally the same. Salah, Mane and Solanke vs Sanchez and Mata. Herrera vs Fabinho. Bailly vs Van Dijk. Darmian/Tuanzebe/Fosu Mensah/Mitchell vs moreno/klavan/camacho. Pereira vs Lallana.

Literally the biggest differences was McTominay vs Milner. And then they subbed half their team at half time yet proceeded to dominate what was without a shadow of doubt a stronger side. It's the most BS excuses ever. Yes, pre-season results dont matter. Performances absolutely do. We saw the same trash style of play last season and the only difference is now we dont have a selection of 50m players to bail the style out. The style our biggest rivals are playing encourages positive football regardless of players on the pitch. So they dominated us even with trash on the pitch in the 2nd half.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yep. The 2 sides that started were literally the same. Salah, Mane and Solanke vs Sanchez and Mata. Herrera vs Fabinho. Bailly vs Van Dijk. Darmian/Tuanzebe/Fosu Mensah/Mitchell vs moreno/klavan/camacho. Pereira vs Lallana.

Literally the biggest differences was McTominay vs Milner. And then they subbed half their team at half time yet proceeded to dominate what was without a shadow of doubt a stronger side. It's the most BS excuses ever. Yes, pre-season results dont matter. Performances absolutely do. We saw the same trash style of play last season and the only difference is now we dont have a selection of 50m players to bail the style out. The style our biggest rivals are playing encourages positive football regardless of players on the pitch. So they dominated us even with trash on the pitch in the 2nd half.
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Not really. There's a huge gulf in attack. Fabinho will be there first choice DM, Herrera won't be. McTominay and Milner obviously you've pointed out is in no way similar. They got two joke penalties and there wasn't much difference until we started putting in youngsters.
 
crossy1686 said:
Trying to remain positive as I was at the end of last season, clear progression over the last two seasons, was hoping for a big summer and we've not got that so far.

I'm really starting to fear for the coming season if we continue the way we currently are. I know it's preseason and it shouldn't be used as a barometer of things to come, but we really have looked shit. Hopefully it changes when the rest of our squad return.

At the moment, all things point towards an outside top 4 finish.
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It's good that, at the moment 'top 4' in the ICC is irrelevant ;-)

DavidDeSchmikes said:
Lost to a Thai All Star XI, lost to Yokohama F. Marinos, drew with Cerezo Osaka and AIK. Lost 3-1 to Sevilla in Rio Ferdinand's testimonial
Wins against an A-League All Stars XI and Kitchee
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He clearly got Van Gaal and Moyes mixed up.
 
KM said:
Not really. There's a huge gulf in attack. Fabinho will be there first choice DM, Herrera won't be. McTominay and Milner obviously you've pointed out is in no way similar. They got two joke penalties and there wasn't much difference until we started putting in youngsters.
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Theres a huge gulf in attack because they have better players in attack then we do anyway. We both had our first choice left and right sided players but missed our main strikers. Yeah Fabinho will be their first choice DM, Herrera won the player of the season for us as that in Mourinhos first season and starts (and shines in) most important games anyway. Wasnt much of a difference in result until all the subs, but the stats pretty much back up the result. Whatd they have, 65% possession and like 16 shots to our 3 shots? It was a pretty one sided game, penalties or no pens. And they changed literally their entire starting 11 while it was still 1-1. We put fred on for Mata after 2-1 and then took off Sanchez and Herrera at 3-1.

Anyway, the result isnt what matters so much. It's just that they are BS excuses.
 
KM said:
Not really. There's a huge gulf in attack. Fabinho will be there first choice DM, Herrera won't be. McTominay and Milner obviously you've pointed out is in no way similar. They got two joke penalties and there wasn't much difference until we started putting in youngsters.
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We didn't test their goalkeeper apart from 2 offside goals and the free kick we scored.

Literally put them under no pressure or no shots. They boxed us in our half and we resulted to hoofing it out like usual.

It was a pathetic display and no wonder the American fans are not turning up to our matches, would rather watch City / Liverpool. What a shame.
 
DanAn said:
… Some of those kids will have been made to feel 2 foot tall and inadequate, and that's not right. Most of those lads are just dipping their toe into 1st team football, I would have like for Jose to get behind them. Spun it as a positive, as a valuable lesson for the young guys in terms of what it takes to play at the highest level.
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Exactly so. Contrast Mourinho's destructive comments to what Pochettino said after Spurs' games against Roma and Barca:

"... it’s amazing to give the possibility to players like Luke Amos or Oliver Skipp. They were fantastic. The reality is that they played against Roma and tonight fantastically. It’s an amazing experience for them. They need to play, to enjoy. To give them that experience is massive. …

I am so happy with the young ones. Luke Amos is who played the most and then Oliver Skipp, Cameron, Anthony, George Marsh. A lot of the younger ones have the possibility to show their quality. I am so happy with them. I think they are players that still need to grow. They need more experience but they are showing the potential that for one day help, they are helping the team now, and that is so important because at 17, 19-years-old they are showing great quality."
 
Random Task said:
I'm not making anything of last nights game - the same cannot be said of many United fans on here though.

It was a friendly comprised of a group of players who will see very little game time next season. Really is as simple as that.
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True. Klopp's style is way less dependent on individual quality too, it will be much different and way more competitive when both managers can field their strongest XI. Your set of players combined with the playing style is also pretty much tailor-made for Liverpool, having physical and fairly fast defenders that can sit deep as well as a big striker who can bully Lovren and two quick wingers that can exploit the space left while they are doing their pressing game.

I find Mou's presser after the game really disrespectful to his youngsters though. Doesn't serve any purpose but solely to discourage them to me.
 
Any links to Joses post match comments ? Seeing a few online I seriously hope he didn't actually say what's being reported
 
I'm not arsed about the pre-season matches.

My concern is with Mourinho's defensive football.

Fergie has tried to undo his Moyes error by having Carrick/McKenna come in.

I can wait two years. I doubt Mourinho will win the Title or the C L trophy. Good if he does. But if he does not, he will be gone.
 
eams conway said:
Any links to Joses post match comments ? Seeing a few online I seriously hope he didn't actually say what's being reported
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Quotes have been posted over the first 8-10 pages but context is important. Tonight, once I've watched the press conference I'll type up the questions and what Mourinho says then will post them all in a new thread.

With the 'Alexis not being happy' quote, the journalist who asked the question was the one who originally stated that but because there was no question in the tweeted quotes, it made it seem like Mourinho was the one who said it in the first place.
 
JonDahl said:
What is the excuse for the last 2 years where we have been atrocious to watch?
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Underinvestment in Fergies final years, dithering Dave, LVG buying some bang average players. Some of Jose's stallwarts are still leftover from Fergie. I hear about this so called progressive football that Klopp and Pochetino play and between them, their trophy count is what again? Remember around Nov / Dec when the scouse was calling out Klopp because he had no plan B.

This coming season will be his 3rd full year, the team should be in his mold. It's fair to judge him on where we come run in and if we are competing on all fronts playing decent attacking football. Based on last nights game, I think its a little premature.
 
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