Man United appoint Moyes | Round, Woods, Lumsden, P Neville in; Giggs player/coach; Albert stays
- Thread starter Wumminator
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React to going a man down? Ah, yes, playing with a man less is but a minor disadvantage at the highest levels of the game.
I bet Mourinho would have willed his team to victory if the sending off was the other way.
Um, you know, Mourinho made a tactical substitution right after the red card. I'm suggesting we should have done the same. They overloaded the central areas as a result of not having to worry about any wide threat from our left so they no longer needed the right-back. We could and should have reacted to that change quickly.
Nobody said anything about "willing the team to victory" so no need for hostile topreddism, thank you.
Perhaps it is harsh man but I'm not one who believes we were the better side. I also thought it was pretty embarassing how we reverted to underdog mentality after the defeat. We weren't robbed, we just didn't adapt to a shocking decision and it cost us. I was just very disappointed with the reaction, it was pretty small time.
Don't want to parp on, I don't think United are tactically naïve, just perhaps not flexible enough during games.
Your love God Mourinho won because the ref gifted him a man advantage. Not because of any genius on his part.
I do think we were clearly robbed. It was not even close to a red card and definitely took all of our momentum. We should've reacted quickly after the red card but don't forget we still finished the match as the stronger and was again robbed off a definite penalty.
Oh feck off then. If you're not capable of having a discussion instead of cheap shots at others then perhaps you should just shut the feck up.
"My love" - yeah, that post is about my love for Mourinho, you absolute utter prick. In no way it is about how we should have tried to change the team around to give us a better chance of withstanding the inevitable barrage after going a man down.
Also, you single-celled microorganism, I never suggested that Mourinho was a genius for making that switch. I'm saying we did not react to it in any way.
We did react though. And i'll go on record now and say we could have done things better i.e. bringing RVP onto alonso as he then had a lot more of the ball to dictate the game. But we did react, we pulled players out of position etc and still maintained our shape, but Modric scored a brilliant goal to level things up and that changed the atmosphere again, if he hadn't of scored then then we have no idea what would of happened. They were building pressure obviously but its still a jump to conclude they still would have scored two.
Reaching the conclusion that we're not tactically flexible or astute from that game is just plain wrong imo.
Yeah, I agree with that. Still, Carrick and Cleverley were badly outnumbered through the middle and we couldn't stop Madrid passing through us anymore after the red card. They always had someone available to pass to and while Welbeck did a brilliant job of sitting on Alonso up until that point he simply couldn't keep up, understandably. We made our first sub at 1-2.
I heard quite enough justifications for Madrids victory after the game as I live in Spain. Madrid fans and the media crowing about the genius of Mourinho, and what a tactical dinosaur Fergie was. Well Madrid won because of the sending off. At the very highest levels of football, between 2 equally matched teams, a man advantage is a massive difference. I'm not having that game remembered as a victory for Mourinhos superior tactical mind. No fecking way.
I never said Fergie was a tactical dinosaur. I never said Mourinho was a tactical genius or that he made an inspired change. He took off a right-back for a creative midfielder, a very obvious change when you need goals and have a numerical advantage. Certainly no genius.
But we did absolutely nothing to counter it. And while a man advantage is a massive difference, it doesn't have to be the end of all hopes: a significantly inferior (compared to us) Chelsea side came back from 2-0 at Barcelona, a superior side to the Madrid we faced. It's not impossible to hold out for 30 minutes with ten men. I'm still hurting over that because we can't control the referee but we're in control of our own tactics and formation and we could have done better.
I don't think we didn't make a substitution through some sort of shock as some make out but because the team he had out there were the best defensive option. The reason we made a substitution straight after going behind is the obvious reason is that he thought there were better players to chase a game, added to tiring and out of position players. The substitutions or lack of were reasoned out whether we agree with them or not. Whats not often mentioned is that the substitution from Mourinho to bring on Pepe right after they took the lead played right into our hands again as we seized control.
We almost always defend with two banks of four, which has served us incredibly well over the years so not bringing on a 5th midfielder to shore us up was understandable especially as we would have had no out ball what so ever. People look back in hindsight and think we were static and couldn't make decisions, what happened was that we made some decisions, which were logical to Fergie but they didn't work. I keep harking on about it but its pretty difficult to account for as a manager a player beating a player and thumping one in from 25 yards especially with a man down.
Well that's true but they kept finding space through the middle and getting shooting opportunities. And there's a lot a manager can do about that.
We didn't have a lot of great options on the bench, that's true. We could have brought on Kagawa for either Welbeck - who was tired - or Van Persie - who was isolated after the red though he had a good shot -, maybe his energy and ball retention would have helped in the middle. We'll never know.
Yes, Mourinho fecked up by bringing on Pepe and ceding the initiative but he got away with it, the lucky bastard.
Yeh good post 8th Wonder and I do accept most of what you say here. Yes I overstated that De Gea kept us in the first game, although I do feel he was our best player on the night. That save from Coentrao was so crucial. I said before the game he was our key man and if he kept Real out in the first 15-20 mins it would give us a great platform to build on. Unfortunately we didn't build on it enough in my eyes. To all people who say Ferguson got the better of Jose I simply say, "why wasn't the tie put to bed?" I believe we did capitulate, that 20 min spell from the sending off Ferguson lost his head and that transmitted to the players on the pitch who didn't adapt to the quickly changing situation. Modric scored a stunner yes but he was being allowed the freedom of Old Trafford. Ronaldo's goal won the tie and that was the one that pissed me off the most. Complete lack of concentration and discipline.
Don't get me wrong Ferguson 9 times out of 10 set United up spot on. I take your point about Chelsea but how many times last season did we see a lack of tactical flexibility in game? Chelsea in both FA Cup ties, Norwich away, Spurs at OT, Southampton home and away, Liverpool at OT just to name a few. I just feel we have been slow or unable to adapt to changes in games on numerous occasions in the last 2-3 years and it has cost us especially in Europe.
This is nothing to do with the thread but my original point still stands, I want Moyes and his team to concentrate more on tactical drills than ones based on fitness...its no contest for me.
No it wasn't. He was totally justified in his observations and he didn't go OTT in order to demean United. Why is an independent observation like that a nonsensical post? He explained everything he said in more than enough detail.
Its your little fart arsed post that is nonsensical. You agreed....well that's just fabulous Rowem I'm so pleased for you.
I'm glad that you can have a proper laugh about it. I do feel though that sometimes people often chortle when underneath they are actually snorting bubbles of snot from their tender, sore little nostrils.
I'm amused at how such an innocuous post has gained such hostility
You are easily amused. Hostility? I'm just observing. I'm afraid your post ceased to be innocuous when you used the word "nonsensical." Unless you were taking the piss then it was quite clear the post you were referring to was not so.
Time for beddy by boes anyway.
2nd part...
Long read but thought that was an outstanding interview. The Interviewer was Simon Stoney of PA.
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/2/8846895/david-moyes-q-a
The part about him going around France sleeping in his car during the 98 WC was great. Also interesting to see him mention we are looking at targets to sign next year.
Good read. Reading his answers alone, you just can feel his intensity to the game.
Say what you want about his credentials, the man talks some sense and with each day highlights why Sir Alex chose him. He really fits the club. I loved the "always looking towards the future" part. Taken from SAF's book of wisdom. Brilliant read
I liked the WC bit too. Show's the mentality of being willing to go the extra mile to get to where he wants to go, and also being willing to learn and adapt to whatever is the latest techniques in coaching. Certainly not something a pre-historic dinosaur would do.
I have to hold my hands up and say I might have been wrong about this dude. I know it's all talk so far, and results on the pitch will be how he's ultimately judged, but he really does talk a lot of sense. He's humble, seems willing to learn and grow, and doesn't seem at all full of himself or up his own arse.
I was one of the more vocal dissenters against his appointment, but I'm really starting to warm to him.
I was one of the more vocal dissenters against his appointment, but I'm really starting to warm to him.
Really glad to hear that Nev. I know he's done feck all of note yet but I agree that every little piece more we get to learn about him makes me more confident we got the right guy.
With luck all the other dissenters will come around before the season starts and everyone will get behind him 100%.
Which means if all goes well you'll be one of his most ardent supporters.
Why is that then? That seems a very cynical way to look at things.
In a similar position. Once we appointed him, I got behind him, but I have to admit that beforehand he was always second or third on my list, never the one I hoped we'd appoint. Feels increasingly like a very safe pair of hands, though. Superb interview.
Cynical? why?
Maybe I misunderstood you, but it seemed you were suggesting I would simply flip my opinion, and back him to the hilt if he was a success.
To be honest it doesn't tell me anything I don't already know about the man. Last issue of FourFourTwo reveals a great deal about his career and what others think of him also. He was hired for his clear talent, integrity and his understanding of the core values the club promotes. I like Moyes but I do fear for him at United. Its the pressure and the expectation that will make or break him. Nobody can really say whether we have the right man until we see a season or two of football. I'm not confident in the slightest because I truly have no idea what to expect. Ferguson bought assuredness and that is gone, its a trip into the unknown now.
Being brutally honest I don't care about warming to the man, I never really warmed to Ferguson. What I'm looking for is evidence that he can be successful given his opportunity at the highest level. Can he take his talent as a coach and apply it to a club on United's scale? I've got to be honest if he cannot then he will never be good enough, the foundations he inherits is too good. He has been afforded a unique opportunity, he deserves the support he will require and I'm sure he will get it.
Nev stop being a soppy arse. A lot of the stuff you said after the appointment was spot on. We owe Moyes support but fecks sake its just a few words in an interview don't start going soft. Like you say he will be judged on results not talk and a humble fecking nature!
Being brutally honest I don't care about warming to the man, I never really warmed to Ferguson. What I'm looking for is evidence that he can be successful given his opportunity at the highest level. Can he take his talent as a coach and apply it to a club on United's scale? I've got to be honest if he cannot then he will never be good enough, the foundations he inherits is too good. He has been afforded a unique opportunity, he deserves the support he will require and I'm sure he will get it.
Nev stop being a soppy arse. A lot of the stuff you said after the appointment was spot on. We owe Moyes support but fecks sake its just a few words in an interview don't start going soft. Like you say he will be judged on results not talk and a humble fecking nature!
I can see you going back over all your posts from before he was appointed and editing them all to say how much you wanted him and that he was always your first choice.
Kin JCL OOT's.
I'm not being soppy, I just might have been a bit harsh. I'm by no means declaring him the bestest manager ever, or saying that he's definitely the right choice. There are still doubts and he has work to do, but I like what I hear from him so far. He's come across well in pre-season, for me.
Fair do's. I agree he has come across very well so far in what must be difficult circumstances. My hope is that he does stamp his identity on United over the course of the season. I don't want him to have Ferguson in the back of his mind all the time, thinking "what would Sir Alex say here?" I'm sure he will and I'm looking forward to him locking horns with the other elite managers.
Just gone through the interview again it is very good KM...the bit I'm interested in most is the information about him travelling to watch training sessions in Europe. If he is an innovator I'm looking forward to seeing it transmit to the pitch.
Just gone through the interview again it is very good KM...the bit I'm interested in most is the information about him travelling to watch training sessions in Europe. If he is an innovator I'm looking forward to seeing it transmit to the pitch.
Hopefully the training sessions will be as competitive as we are being told they are. That leaves no hiding place for weak minded players and exposes them pretty quickly.
Nope. Not flip. A progressive change