What does Lumsden actually do?
Man United appoint Moyes | Round, Woods, Lumsden, P Neville in; Giggs player/coach; Albert stays
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
According to Joe Jordan:
"He was someone I could knock things about with as well as the other qualities he had. I could talk to him and get his opinion as that knowledge was important for me. Obviously, that knowledge and that experience has become tenfold now because he’s been in the game for that length of time since then. He has gained all that and added that to his abilities and stored it away.
"Jimmy has got a lot of qualities. He’s somebody I can trust and David Moyes can trust. As soon as he got his job, he got Jimmy in. It goes all the way back to the connection with Moyesy at Celtic"
Basically he is someone you can talk to - and you can trust. Resident shrink on other words
Since Moyes has been here, he has brought in about 10+ people in different roles and every single one has been from Everton
including a playing member, grrrrrr
Well he's signing a Chelsea scout and a premier league coach, so hopefully that will stop the whining. Or are they small clubs/entities too?
I'm pretty sure they both worked with him at Everton.
That's besides the point though. The complain is that he signed coaches from Everton. Clearly, these two were good enough to be snapped up to better jobs. Yet people (including you - but at least you are openly anti-Moyes) see "Everton" and complain
Has he got any family members he can bring in?
Eh? Where have I given you the impression that I am openly "anti-Moyes?" Where have I complained? You are off-beat there.
I'm not against the new personnel, they come with good reputations. I will wait to see their impact before I pass judgement. The point in case was that Moyes knows the men and has worked with them previously, like he has with every other appointment and signing he has made so far.
My only concern I expressed on the previous page, Moyes appears to only want to trust people he has previously worked with. If that is the case, and it probably isn't, then he won't get the most out of what is already at Manchester United. Brightonian mentioned in another thread that he hoped Murtough wouldn't meddle too much with the academy, which is really bearing ripe fruit and potentially could do for years to come. That is the kind of thing that concerns me, intentional/unintentional meddling with something that isn't broken.
I bet u werent expecting that informative response
No I wasn't. I was expecting another thread along the lines of the Micky Phelan one to be honest!
Murtough's role isn't directly linked to the academy. It will mirror the Performance Director role Mike Forde had at Chelsea and it has to do with identifying areas of "marginal gains" for individual players in order to maximize their performance levels. Or some shit. Google it. Sounds like a good idea.
are you on your period? who was whining? i was giving you my fact of the day.
oh, and they both were from Everton too actually
It's not just the 'everton' thing. It's the "I only work with my former boys" mentality. It's insular and yes part of it is that it's disconcerting when he is ditching proven people at the highest level in favour of his own boys from a lower level.
Rodgers had a bit of that to begin with as well and it was annoying as hell to see. Thankfully seems to have grown out of it.
Whilst I was not an advocate of ditching Phelan and Rene, believing that Moyes should have kept at least one of them because they knew the club and the players (an issue cider put me right on!), I now see that he has to do it his way. His people are not poor at their jobs; they have a lot to prove yes but that makes it easier for us as they will do their utmost to improve and Moyes is not a poor manager, he's a very good manager who can and will also improve while he's given time and resources to do that.
Maybe it's merely a case of trying to create an initial comfort zone for yourself so as to not be overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task at hand. I'm not too concerned about Moyes' alleged insularity (that's a word, right...?), he was quite progressive in building and developing his staff at Everton.
I don't know. Rodgers as a manager now is barely recognisable to the guy we first hired. His initial favourites are either on loan or not getting a game, 4-3-3 has been dumped, we favour high tempo hitting on the break over patient build-up and we don't seem to mind conceding possession either to protect a lead. I think he realised that it's a totally different job than Swansea with different needs and has basically re-tooled his managerial approach accordingly.
Moyes I think has done the business too long with moderate success to change much. Not quite Hodgson levels of '38 years of experience', but I don't expect much new from him - more likely to be getting better at what's he's been doing already.
That's nothing but an assumption on your part. He did what he had to do at Everton and he did it well. But this is still the guy who slept in his car during France 98 in order to catch as many games and training sessions as possible and just about everyone who's ever worked with him talk about his extraordinary desire to learn and develop. How his United will eventually end up looking is anyone's guess at this point. All that's certain is that nothing will be left to chance.
in 1998. that was 15 years ago when he was still new in the business and hadn't yet had a formula tried and tested over time. Different position to now.
And sure it's an assumption. I do give reasons for why I can see that being the case though and I don't think it is at all farfetched.
Which is exactly why I believe he won't be changing his approach too much.
The France 98 example is just a nice illustration, there are plenty of more recent witness accounts lauding his desire to evolve. I know you must be desperate for the giddiness of Sir's retirement and being 3 points ahead of us in the league to last. So if simplistic notions such as Moyes doing the same limited thing over and over for 10 years at Everton and his not being savvy enough to realize that the circumstances and therefore solutions are different at United - even though you're clever enough to see it - helps you sleep at night, then I say go for it, bro.
But he he hasnn't ditched everybody. He got rid of 2 people, and one declined his job offer. He offered a job to Rene, who is the "bestest coach ever" according to the caf. The guy turned him down.
With regards to the assistant manager - people hated Phelan, and now suddenly he goes, and people are upset about that. It's incredibly stupid. He can't run the club the same way as SAF did. No manager can. Each has their own style. Rodgers has come in, tried to run Liverpool like Swansea, failed and changed it up. Moyes will run United his own way. What you (even though you are a Pool fan) and others need to realize that his "former boys" probably didn't work with him at some point, and neither have 80% of the staff he has at United.
It's easy to criticize Moyes, but the United fans nee to see sense.
For you Liverpool fans, of course I can understand you hope he fails. But remember this is the same Moyes who finished above you on 1/10th the budget. You still think he is a shit manager. What does that say about the idiot you have in charge?
Looks like your whining now, and getting insulting. Good job.
Well they weren't anymore. They went on to bigger things because they did good jobs. It's like saying "he is shit - he worked at KFC as a teen!", when the guy is now in his 30s and owns his own company. It makes no sense.
People need to stop worshipping Rene. He is definitely a fantastic coach, RVP and Ronaldo can testify to that. But let's not make him out to be this infallible god of coaching.
Good post.
Liverpool fans seem to ignore the fact Moyes consistently kept Everton around or above Liverpool while the Anfield outfit spent crazy amounts in comparison.
And if anyone thinks Moyes is not a forward thinking, progressive manager, they really don't know him at all. Everton were capable of playing some excellent high tempo football under him with the likes of Baines, Pienaar, Mirallas, Coleman and Jelavic.
What are you talking about? You're the one insinuating that Everton are a small club here, not me - I rate Everton. All I said is that everyone he's bought in (coaches, player, scouts, everything) has been from Everton which is 100% correct. The fact you're making that statement negative is through your own negative perception of it.
He was such a good coach that we played some exceptional football the past few years under his guidance.
To be fair he offered Rene a job with the youth setup, which he was never going to take considering he was First-Team Coach at the time. He obviously has ambitions to become a Manager/Head Coach and he was never going to take a backwards step. Can't criticise him for that and I'm sure Moyes never expected him to stay on. Phelan was subject to mockery but I'm not sure anyone actually hated the guy?? He obviously was never going to stay and anyone criticising Moyes for that is off their head.
Agree with you on the rest although I'm pretty sure Moyes had a bit more than 1/10th of Liverpool's budget to play with.
No we didn't, he's a coach not an assistant manager. We were never under his guidance he coached the players not offered tactical help.
We were clearly under Rene's guidance, much like the Macedonians at the Battle of Issus.
That's right, bitches, I just SteveJ'd this motherfecker.
That's right, bitches, I just SteveJ'd this motherfecker.
And failed spectacularly, Alexander did all the tactics by himself, not with someone like Rene. Terrible attempt at a Stevej!!!
That's either genius or absolutely retarded.
You tried to be SteveJ, automatic absolutely retarded
Just reading through https://twitter.com/FourthOfficial_'s timeline. Those who don't know, he's an Everton fan with connections to the club. I suppose it's been said already by resident Evertonians on this forum, but according to him, he was shocked that Moyes brought Steve Round with him to United because he's shite. Now I don't know what goes on during training sessions, but surely the coaching staff is partly responsible for the poor performances this season.
Definitely, I totally agree. And nobody would better know how good a coach someone is than some no-mark on Twitter.
He should have never done the overall of the backroom staff. He might have tied his own noose trying to play to fans with Butt and Neville and setting himself apart from Fergie with whoever the hell the other bums are.
I'm still desperately trying to find the quote of Fergie or Gill talking about how it will be a smooth transition because they have ensured that from the bottom right up to the Assistant Manager they have a stable foundation for the new manager to continue into.
Moyes brought his sledge hammer with him and fecked that foundation up.
Seriously though if anyone could find that article/interview I'd love to read it. *cough* @Damien *cough*
Moyes brought his sledge hammer with him and fecked that foundation up.
Seriously though if anyone could find that article/interview I'd love to read it. *cough* @Damien *cough*
Well Fergie said in his book that he wanted Moyes to keep the staff. Or are you talking about another quote?
Another quote from anywhere between 2 and 5 years ago. I think it was Gill talking about how Fergie has delegated to the point where he has someone working on each and every aspect of the game. Tactics, coaching, fitness ect. They felt it would soften the blow of him leaving as they would all carry on as if he was still there and the new manager would be eased in and utilise the massive experience they have between them.
Not the case. Probably 100 years of football experience walked out the door when Moyes came in. On top of that, coaches that new how the squad worked together, how much you could get out of each player, who could be trusted to do what role.
That's where I think Maureen would have been better. He'd have had the ego, gravitas and confidence to come in and work with Fergie's men. Moyes, I think, would have been very worried about feeling undermind or out of his depth. Hence: his own men. The only "United" men he had are all very inexperienced. From an amateur psychology view point that tells me he was very anxious about his own experience and his need to be top dog.
I can understand why Moyes would want his own guys. If it was me I'd have been paranoid that the likes of Phelan, Rene etc might have been talking behind my back to the players about me if things were going wrong.