With your money, because we don't really have enough to go for the 100m+ players atm.
Man City's inevitable Treble
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Being the first team to do something is special. Like being the first team to win the treble. Being the second team to do something is just, being second.
Maybe we get there. Maybe we don't. It's possible if Ten Hag is on Klopp's level.
Of course, I am in the coping phase, but there is something off about City's treble run. It is like a procession, whereas United's was a fight, a battle, with massive moments. For all the media trying to big up the Arsenal/City title battle, most fans have thought for months that City would reel in Arsenal and win the league. Sure, it is impressive, they are blowing away the competition at home and potentially abroad. Impressive yes, but oddly void of character and very uninteresting.
I absolutely didn't want Liverpool to have any of the success they have had in recent years, but even all that was more interesting and was just a better story. This has been the season where most fans have woken up to how City was able to do what they have done... cheating. Sure, we all kind of knew but now we really know. I have never seen such indifference to a top-dominating team as this. Needless to say, their fans won't give two fecks and nor should they, but still.
Klopp won one title since 2015. Yeah, I would take any title right now but the narrative that he broke City's dominance is simply not true. The problem is that City is rooted and the foundation was set a decade ago by cheating. Pep built on it with his own undoubted genius but the blueprint for City dominating was in place after the years of financial manipulation. Unless they are brought to account for that era, this current era of dominance will continue and potentially become endless unless Newcastle breaks it by essentially doing the same as City did.
I absolutely didn't want Liverpool to have any of the success they have had in recent years, but even all that was more interesting and was just a better story. This has been the season where most fans have woken up to how City was able to do what they have done... cheating. Sure, we all kind of knew but now we really know. I have never seen such indifference to a top-dominating team as this. Needless to say, their fans won't give two fecks and nor should they, but still.
Klopp won one title since 2015. Yeah, I would take any title right now but the narrative that he broke City's dominance is simply not true. The problem is that City is rooted and the foundation was set a decade ago by cheating. Pep built on it with his own undoubted genius but the blueprint for City dominating was in place after the years of financial manipulation. Unless they are brought to account for that era, this current era of dominance will continue and potentially become endless unless Newcastle breaks it by essentially doing the same as City did.
Great. We now hope a RM team in bad form can do something. It really has opened for City for all of a sudden with every team in their way going to prices (see Bayern too)
I think a lot of our fans don't understand that money is not the only reason why City is dominating. City has been burning money since their Abu takeover. But most of their success and domination rests solely on Pep. With Qatar money or not! we wont be able to dominate as well as City are doing right now unless SAF decides to return back to management or Pep decides to join us. The biggest 'cheating' City did is to get Pep on board. The man is a monster when it comes to management, particularly if he is given a free cheque to buy his kinda players. This Qatar theory holds no water as we really didn't lose to city because of money or transfers, Liverpool may-be, not us nor Chelsea or even Arsenal(recently), for we have spent just as much if not more. Its Pep. Once he f-ks off! City can bring all the oil money on the planet and it wont sustain this dominance (unless they retain Pep for another 10 years).
Also, its insane what Klopp has done with Pool considering the Monster City has been under Pep. In fact City should thank Klopp for legitimizing their wins for without him, the last 5 years would have been an absolute Joke. City and PL would be more like PSG and Ligue 1. I am certain all other clubs would have raised in arms with their sticks and fire if Klopp didnt do what he did with Pool for the difference of financial doping would then be starkly visible. City would have walked the league every single season and the entire narrative would be focused on the power of money crushing competition (Who knows the league may have considered the draft route or some other major change). What Klopp did by outrageously challenging City is to somehow make this financial doping look alright.
ETH or anybody else realistically can at best do a Klopp. We must all wait for Pep to leave City so that the rules of competition has a semblance of validity for right now City is bankrolling the best manager with best players making the entire league a Joke competition.
This is the headline couple of days ago. One stream yesterday said they have the chance to go down as the greatest of all time and rival Barcelona if they win the treble.
This is why I find it baffling that united fans are content with Arsenal blowing this lead and putting City as firm favorites to win the Treble. The supporters can spin it anyway they want by claiming it’s a tainted run by City but the fact is the rest of the footballing world and the media will be putting Pep ahead of Saf and City ahead of united and all their achievments if they pull this off regardless of what supporters of united or anyone else that claim City’s honors doesn’t mean anything. It’s going to happen now that Arsenal threw this away.
RM are weird. They don’t look that great in the league but when it comes to the CL they’re like a different team all together.
It can’t keep happening. Actually almost didn’t last year - multiple times but it was their ability to find a way that won it last year rather than them becoming absolutely incredible as soon as it was CL time. Can’t see them continuing to do miracles even against a team that’s frankly far better than them.
RM are a proper cup team. If there is anybody who can upset this CIty machine, it must be Ancelotti. Considering they are almost out of the title race, we can hope they will give their best to stop City. Its not far fetched. Trust in Pep to find a way to f--k it up.
Oh no. But you can't say that. Apparently, put any half decent manager in charge of City and they would do the same. Oh so, the counter argument goes. Apparently Mancini and Pellegrini did the same.
Never mind that this Football manager has gotten this City Team to reach domestic heights not seen in this country in nearly 100 years. Even pre Premier League, and taking into account the old 2 point for a win system, no domestic top flight English Team has ever reached 100 points. Pep did. And he followed it up with 98 points the following season.
Pep will win this league season and match Fergies 3 in a row (also 5 in 6). Who would bet against Pep and Haaland doing 4 in a row next year (and 6 in 7)?
Make no mistake, Pep is obliterating this Premier League, the so called toughest league in the world. No offence to Fergie, but he was winning a league title in 98 with a low tally of 78 points, and he only had 1 decent rival, Arsenal.
Pep is the ultimate difference maker in this Premier League. If it was just a case of money only, where are Chelsea currently?
How much have United won in the last 10 years despite spending a billion.
We are witnessing one of the GOAT Managers. Appreciate that.
He’s done well so far in sticking to the basics but ye pep does have an habit of messing up once they get so far. It’s either down to Madrid or last hope down to us to stop them winning the treble at least.
I can’t make Real Madrid underdogs in the CL against anyone, with many of their players prone to delivering in crunch moments of bit CL games, a guy that has won the competition more times as a manager than anyone else at the helm, while (I think off the top or my head) that none of the City players have won the competition before during their careers. I regard that SF as a 50-50 tie.
I don’t consider how Real Madrid play in La Liga games in and around their big CL battles to be particularly important to be honest.
I don’t consider how Real Madrid play in La Liga games in and around their big CL battles to be particularly important to be honest.
Because it's not buying players that's the issue, it's releasing the shite on major contracts when it doesn't work out, that we need the money for.
We don't need Qatar for that either, in my opinion. We just need to be better run in terms of these things.
So how do we pay off Martial, Maguire, VDB, De Gea and Sancho, and then buy some new players at the same time?
Stating the obvious here but I keep seeing Pep called a "monster" or a "genius"
His record in Europe without Messi doesn't scream genius to me. Surely a monster would have a couple more champions leagues at this stage with the resources he's had. Instead of some pretty shambolic exits.
I think its hugely optimistic to think City's dominance will end with Pep. It was already starting to happen before Pep. The only hope is that they appoint an absolute duffer to succeed him but that seems unlikely.
He's astonishingly dominant. That 2 year stretch when he broke every record in the English top flight, getting 100 and 98 points back to back, and winning the first domestic treble in the second while reeling Liverpool in, was something else.
But you're getting ahead of yourself. I saw a post saying that if Pep gets 14 titles + and 3 UCLs + , he'd be considered the best ever. None of that is a given
Winning 14 top 5 league titles would put him 1st of all times. We can't just assign him titles we predict he might win because football doesn't work that way. Who would have thought Wenger would never win a title again when the invincible campaign ended? Or that Mourinho would only win other title after 2012?
If City win this year, it gives him 11. I don't see how we can entertain a discussion about him winning 3 more.
Pep is a great manager but there will always be doubts about how he would have done without all the referee bribes and paying players under the table
A tainted legacy
A tainted legacy
The same way everybody else does? Sell them. Or, act like a big club and instead of having the likes of Elanga on the bench, have Sancho (or whoever is not in form).
There's no way we're selling those without paying them to leave, where does that money come from and where does the money for new players come from?
Fergie
He's astonishingly dominant. That 2 year stretch when he broke every record in the English top flight, getting 100 and 98 points back to back, and winning the first domestic treble in the second while reeling Liverpool in, was something else.
But you're getting ahead of yourself. I saw a post saying that if Pep gets 14 titles + and 3 UCLs + , he'd be considered the best ever. None of that is a given
Winning 14 top 5 league titles would put him 1st of all times. We can't just assign him titles we predict he might win because football doesn't work that way. Who would have thought Wenger would never win a title again when the invincible campaign ended? Or that Mourinho would only win other title after 2012?
If City win this year, it gives him 11. I don't see how we can entertain a discussion about him winning 3 more.
I was just pointing to a place where it would be irrefutable in most peoples minds that he is the greatest. The ball really is in his court. If he felt like managing another 5 to 10 years, he could easily win another 3/4 titles. Don't forget, he could always go to Italy and join the best club there and rack up league titles much easier than the Prem, or even a walk in the park like PSG and get even more leagues.
The Mourinho example I see, but Mou hasn't been as tactically flexible and adaptable as Pep has been over the years. Peps gone from a false 9 craze, to Aguero and Haaland. The midfield obsession of his Barca days is much less so, he is much more able to cede possession and counter (outpossessed by Brighton and Bayern for example). His new 3 at the back system sees him rely entirely with no full backs. He's gone from a team of technical midgets at Barca to a mix of power and technique now seen at City.
He knows how to change with the times and adapt to what's needed.
And come on, we are talking about arguably the most coveted manager in the History of the game. He will be fine.
Surely this just shows how much stronger the Premier League was when Fergie was winning it, I mean the fact that Fergie won it one season with only 78 points shows there were more good teams in the league taking points off each other.
Pep getting 100 and 99 points is an indication of how weak the Premier League was at that time with hardly any teams turning up and taking points off them
As opposed to the catalogue of decent rivals pep has now in a grand total of Liverpool and that’s it.
United and Chelsea have been bad in the league for many years.
spurs and Arsenal only decent this year.It's also an indication of how poorly ran the likes of United and Arsenal have been for so long.
Dubbed the noisy neighbours, they now have the best manager in the world to coach the best midfielder and best striker in the world.
Whatever the source of the money is, the footballing establishment in this country has failed to deal with City and from United's perspective it's gross financial mismanagement given that we have essentially matched them if not outspent them pound for pound for nearly a decade.
It really depends on how you want to see it.
In the 90's PL teams weren't playing CL finals one against the other and weren't winning the big ear trophy very often.
When you have teams that get over 90 points in the league and play CL semi-finals or the final I wouldn't say the league is weaker. Also back then the financial power of the PL was much much lower than it is now.
Do us United fans actually care if they 3 peat or win a treble?
Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. If it was Liverpool or Arsenal now!!! I’d be sleeping uneasy.
Fair play to them if they achieve it. It’s not easy to do.
Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. If it was Liverpool or Arsenal now!!! I’d be sleeping uneasy.
Fair play to them if they achieve it. It’s not easy to do.
So what? He won the league with 79 points in the treble year. The following season with the same team who had won it all, with no quality goal keeper and in 2nd gear, 18 points ahead of 2nd place, he won the league with 91 points (without oil money and with much smaller squads).
And still hardly anyone talks of the 91 points season at all as it was a relatively poor and not competitive season at all.
Whereas 1999 was a great league season, extremely competitive, decided on the last day with Arsenal and Chelsea finishing very close to United.
And guess what, we got 1 league title each for both seasons, regardless of the points total. The rule was finishing first. Fergie knew it, everyone else knew it.
Maybe this has changed now and you get awarded more than 1 league title for 97/98 points but I am not aware of such a change.
You don't think we could sell Sancho, Maguire or VdB? For a start, do we even want to sell them all? We've got clubs apparently after Maguire and McT. We could sell (at a loss) VdB easily, same for Sancho. It seems like you're making a mountain out of a molehill. We cancelled the contract of our highest paid player just this season. It shouldn't be anywhere as near as difficult as you are making out. Most other teams would sell these players no problem, if they wanted to.
I mean the points comparison thing seems a bit futile to me. City and other big clubs don't put together these huge squads full of top quality just to keep churning out points totals United were getting with the likes of Jonathan Greening on the bench. We had good cover up front but elsewhere it was bare bones really.
Points totals should be improving. It'd be weird if they didn't.
It will only be tainted if Barca and City get charged on those crimes.
Pep is quite clearly among the greatest managers of all time.
But let’s temper all the adulation a little bit. The guy has an unlimited budget, an incredible squad that’s full of players that should be starting every week, and this the team is never ‘weak’. Plus he has the ability to make more subs than in eras gone by, keeping all of those players happy and sharp.
I would never try to suggest that he’s anything less than brilliant. But good lord he’s not so much as counting cards at the blackjack table, as being able to put the deck in order himself.
For all of the comparisons with United’s time under Fergie, and the Treble season, we had to gamble on Dwight Yorke, picked up Ole for pennies, and seek value in Sheringham. Going into that season, our four forwards were not the envy of football. The squad was paper thin in places. We only had 18 players that played more than 10 matches. City currently have 22, with 10 matches to go.
I’m sure that Fergie would have loved to look at every player and not worry about them getting injured because he had a player just as good on the bench, bringing 5 on every match when games were won.
But let’s temper all the adulation a little bit. The guy has an unlimited budget, an incredible squad that’s full of players that should be starting every week, and this the team is never ‘weak’. Plus he has the ability to make more subs than in eras gone by, keeping all of those players happy and sharp.
I would never try to suggest that he’s anything less than brilliant. But good lord he’s not so much as counting cards at the blackjack table, as being able to put the deck in order himself.
For all of the comparisons with United’s time under Fergie, and the Treble season, we had to gamble on Dwight Yorke, picked up Ole for pennies, and seek value in Sheringham. Going into that season, our four forwards were not the envy of football. The squad was paper thin in places. We only had 18 players that played more than 10 matches. City currently have 22, with 10 matches to go.
I’m sure that Fergie would have loved to look at every player and not worry about them getting injured because he had a player just as good on the bench, bringing 5 on every match when games were won.
I don't really care, but it's easier now than it was then. They'll inevitably win it with or without Pep.
Well, I mean... the reason that 1999/00 wasn't competitive was because we performed much better in the league than a season before. In 1999, Arsenal had 66 points with 5 games to go, a year later they had 63... not much of a difference and it would have still been an exciting title race but for United's excellence.
I think the reason 99/00 isn't talked about that much is simply because we won the fecking Treble the previous season. Compared to that even a record breaking league run is a little ho-hum.
I don’t think the entire league table was due to us. We may have performed better but at the same time others performed worse. In 99 top 3 finished on 79/78/75. In 2000 it was 91/73/69.
Bottom 3 in 99 finished on 36/35/30. In 2000 it was 33/31/24.
Last season bottom 3 finished on 35/23/22.
In 2018/19 bottom 3 finished on 34/26/16 points (the season City and Liverpool got 98/97 points).
That’s why every season has it’s own dynamic. Sometimes bottom/mid table/top teams are weaker/stronger than in other seasons. And nowadays the gap just gets bigger as the top teams have big squads with top/expensive players happy to sit on the bench while being paid very well.
Which is kind of a pity(and also a huge marker of that side's quality) because 91 points in 2000 was just as impressive, if not more, than 100 points in 2018
The only significant difference there is United going from 79 to 91 points
The gap between the best and the rest has grown significantly since back then - in pretty much every league. The PL is certainly much, much stronger now, and over the past 6 seasons, then it was in the late 90s/early 00s. Even relative to eras. It just hasn't really gotten more competitive because the gaps got bigger, not smaller - in fact, as the points total show, it's actually less competitive now than it was back then
United pulling off a 91 points season in 99/00 was the anomaly. Nowadays, the anomaly would be a PL winner under 90 points(Covid-compressed season notwithstanding - which is actually a good comp because the training/playing conditions likely tracked more closely to the 90s)
Yeah it’s natural. In England at least in the 90s the average points to win the league (with 38 games) was 75-80. In the 00s it increased to 85-90. And nowadays it’s around 94/95 points.
But obviously a league will be called competitive if it’s a close race decided late in the season. And not that competitive if it is already decided on game day 32/33 or something. (that actually sounds like Michael Owen, not good!)
Absolutely. Finishing the season with 11 consecutive wins was also unprecedented (though Arsenal did beat that record only a couple of years later). Other than those two streaks, all the longest winning runs in the Premier League happened in the last 6-7 years which tells its own story.