Man City's inevitable Treble

The media love in is absolutely embarrassing because you know they must be getting paid for it in order to make it trending.
City fans alone can't do that. There are not enough of them.
 
Don't know. Messi was an injury prone super talent that was under bad influence from Ronaldinho's party lifestyle, Xavi and Iniesta very good midfielders but not on the level they displayed under Guardiola. Busquets and Pique weren't established either. I'd argue he shaped his Barca players while he brought in many finished products for City

Or they just naturally reached that stage of their careers at that time. A player's level isn't automatically determined by their manager. Harry Kane's breakthrough season was in 2014-15, but would anyone say that Pochettino created him? Or did he just happen to be the Tottenham manager from 2014 to 2019? Not saying Pep definitely had nothing to do with how good Barcelona were during that period, but I also don't think we can say with any kind of certainty that he's the one who made it happen.

That's the trouble with a manager who has never had a difficult job on his hands, never had to get a team to perform above their level. Nobody can know for sure if it's his doing or if he just happens to have the best squad at his disposal. He has never had to bring a team up to the top, he has just taken the reins of the top team each time. While we can say that he has built a strong team at City, was that some act of genius or did he just fling endless amounts of money (above and below the table) at the transfer market until they inevitably and automatically had an unstoppable team?

I think his record in Europe says more about his managerial prowess. Ever since he left prime Messi/Xavi/Iniesta behind, he has underperformed. After so many years with teams that should be candidates to win the CL every single season, he's only now looking like it might finally happen, and it still might not. There's no doubt he's good at dominating a domestic league, but when he's up against other elite teams, he's nowhere near as successful. In this year's CL campaign, he faced possibly the worst Bayern and Real Madrid sides of the last decade, and now he has the insolent luck to play a final against Inter. Even if that does finally give him a post-Barca CL trophy, it wasn't really proof that he has overcome his history of doing less in Europe than the best team in England and Germany should.
 
Or they just naturally reached that stage of their careers at that time. A player's level isn't automatically determined by their manager. Harry Kane's breakthrough season was in 2014-15, but would anyone say that Pochettino created him? Or did he just happen to be the Tottenham manager from 2014 to 2019? Not saying Pep definitely had nothing to do with how good Barcelona were during that period, but I also don't think we can say with any kind of certainty that he's the one who made it happen.

That's the trouble with a manager who has never had a difficult job on his hands, never had to get a team to perform above their level. Nobody can know for sure if it's his doing or if he just happens to have the best squad at his disposal. He has never had to bring a team up to the top, he has just taken the reins of the top team each time. While we can say that he has built a strong team at City, was that some act of genius or did he just fling endless amounts of money (above and below the table) at the transfer market until they inevitably and automatically had an unstoppable team?

I think his record in Europe says more about his managerial prowess. Ever since he left prime Messi/Xavi/Iniesta behind, he has underperformed. After so many years with teams that should be candidates to win the CL every single season, he's only now looking like it might finally happen, and it still might not. There's no doubt he's good at dominating a domestic league, but when he's up against other elite teams, he's nowhere near as successful. In this year's CL campaign, he faced possibly the worst Bayern and Real Madrid sides of the last decade, and now he has the insolent luck to play a final against Inter. Even if that does finally give him a post-Barca CL trophy, it wasn't really proof that he has overcome his history of doing less in Europe than the best team in England and Germany should.

I think no team in the last 20 years shows the cohesiveness of Guardiola teams. Some came quite close, like Bayern, Madrid, Liverpool and Dortmund under Klopp but even those never were as organized and systemized. In my opinion you just need to watch a Pep team play and the answer to the questions you're asking is obvious. There's nobody as good as this and at least since I watch football (~2002), I haven't seen anything quite like this.
 
Sam would consider the 2015 side stronger…
Yeah but there's no symmetry there!

This a United board, people need to believe their team gonna stop these cheating cnuts. We did it, you can do it too!
 
I see Guillem Balague has said that this side is better than Guardiola’s Barcelona :lol:

Hard disagree. Messi alone was a question with no answer for most of Guardiola’s period there. And as good as De Bruyne is, Xavi and Iniesta?! Come on. Madness.
Mmm i think it's actually pretty close, and really hard to compare. At a simple "which team would win" City would smash barcelona 8 times out of 10, but that's a byproduct of eras. The closest thing that Barcelona side faced to this City would be Bayern in '13, and they had a manager with cancer and an injured Messi at the time, but the games were so uncompetitive it's hard to envision much would have changed anyways. Simply put City play too fast, too physical, for Guardiola-era Barcelona. They're also far more used to facing sides like them then the opposite. Again, the only thing even close to City they faced was Bayern the one time, City don't face Messi and Iniesta but they are facing teams who are just as tactically organized and similar in playing style on a relatively regular basis.

On a talent level Barcelona were better, and they revolutionized the sport, City are basically the pinnacle of the sport's evolution started by Barcelona. Guardiola too is a far better manager nowadays than he was then. Relative to their eras, I think Barcelona have the edge, but again, they had the rather huge advantage of being ahead of the curve, like Sacchi's Milan in their time, whereas City don't have that advantage
 
I do wonder how non-United fans feel about this and a quick look at comments on YT vids seem to be fulsome in their praise of this City side and Pep by supporters of other teams. Very few references to the financial doping. Unless something really does happen with the league making a decision against them (ha!) then there will be no controversy surrounding their place in history. I guess cheaters do prosper.
 
I do wonder how non-United fans feel about this and a quick look at comments on YT vids seem to be fulsome in their praise of this City side and Pep by supporters of other teams. Very few references to the financial doping. Unless something really does happen with the league making a decision against them (ha!) then there will be no controversy surrounding their place in history. I guess cheaters do prosper.
Which is entirely predictable. Does anyone care that Silvio Berlusconi bankrolled Milan in the 80s, breaking transfer records left and right? In the FFP era, he wouldn't have been able to pour money from his other businesses into Milan without cooking the books. But now, more than thirty years later, no one calls it financial doping and everyone remembers Sacchi's Milan as a brilliant and truly revolutionary football team - which it was.
 
Which is entirely predictable. Does anyone care that Silvio Berlusconi bankrolled Milan in the 80s, breaking transfer records left and right? In the FFP era, he wouldn't have been able to pour money from his other businesses into Milan without cooking the books. But now, more than thirty years later, no one calls it financial doping and everyone remembers Sacchi's Milan as a brilliant and truly revolutionary football team - which it was.

I agree- some of the posts about financial doping on here make it seem like it’s some kind of moral outrage, rather than a relatively recent rule change. I also think that the majority of fans of smaller clubs are aware that if you took out the spending power of City, Chelsea and Newcastle it wouldn’t suddenly mean Ipswich could win the league, it would mean that the domination of teams like Utd and Liverpool would continue uninterrupted in perpetuity.
 
I agree- some of the posts about financial doping on here make it seem like it’s some kind of moral outrage, rather than a relatively recent rule change. I also think that the majority of fans of smaller clubs are aware that if you took out the spending power of City, Chelsea and Newcastle it wouldn’t suddenly mean Ipswich could win the league, it would mean that the domination of teams like Utd and Liverpool would continue uninterrupted in perpetuity.

It has a trickle down effect, and if City are allowed to flaunt and ignore FFP then so should everyone be allowed to.

And if that’s the case - as it should be if City are allowed to do as they please - it will soon be affecting lower leagues as well.
 
I agree- some of the posts about financial doping on here make it seem like it’s some kind of moral outrage, rather than a relatively recent rule change. I also think that the majority of fans of smaller clubs are aware that if you took out the spending power of City, Chelsea and Newcastle it wouldn’t suddenly mean Ipswich could win the league, it would mean that the domination of teams like Utd and Liverpool would continue uninterrupted in perpetuity.
Liverpool didn't win the league for 30 years, and if City were still championship fodder then United would have won just two titles out of the last ten, such is our bad management and our (correct) punishment for being so inept.

Also Leicester did win the league in 15-16 ( i know, i know, a million to one, never going to happen again etc.) but the likes have Liverpool have had to drastically rebuild and find a manager and an approach that has suited them to become successful again but they did it fairly. Arsenal this season have shown that careful planning can see (almost) excellent results so the idea that the league would just be United's to rule is nonsense.

In my opinion fans of clubs like Leicester, Spurs, even Everton should be pissed off at this because it actually harms their ability to build and to progress in a league of intense competition for champions league football when competing against oil clubs. It must be incredibly disheartning to know that you have very little chance of really making sustained progress even with sustained good performances and that really you're just heading down the league eventually. You think back to Leicester after they won the league or Everton years ago under Moyes and it's progress that only goes so far.
 
It has a trickle down effect, and if City are allowed to flaunt and ignore FFP then so should everyone be allowed to.

And if that’s the case - as it should be if City are allowed to do as they please - it will soon be affecting lower leagues as well.

Does your solution to this problem by any chance leave Utd as the richest club in the league, able to outspend all their rivals?
 
Liverpool didn't win the league for 30 years, and if City were still championship fodder then United would have won just two titles out of the last ten, such is our bad management and our (correct) punishment for being so inept.

Also Leicester did win the league in 15-16 ( i know, i know, a million to one, never going to happen again etc.) but the likes have Liverpool have had to drastically rebuild and find a manager and an approach that has suited them to become successful again but they did it fairly. Arsenal this season have shown that careful planning can see (almost) excellent results so the idea that the league would just be United's to rule is nonsense.

In my opinion fans of clubs like Leicester, Spurs, even Everton should be pissed off at this because it actually harms their ability to build and to progress in a league of intense competition for champions league football when competing against oil clubs. It must be incredibly disheartning to know that you have very little chance of really making sustained progress even with sustained good performances and that really you're just heading down the league eventually. You think back to Leicester after they won the league or Everton years ago under Moyes and it's progress that only goes so far.

Agree, but must stress that the issue isn’t actually oil clubs - it’s City cheating.

If Utd or Liverpool or anyone else did what City have done it would damage the PL and be unfair.

It’s important that the distinction is made between oil club and oil club who has been cheating for 10 years.
 
Does your solution to this problem by any chance leave Utd as the richest club in the league, able to outspend all their rivals?

No. My solution to this problem is to enforce FFP, or publicly abandon it.

If City had abided by the rules they’d still be vastly more wealthy than every other team in the PL bar Newcastle.

But that wasn’t enough of a head start for City, they needed to cheat also.

But judging from your ill-informed ABU type last few posts in here you’re not too bothered and would rather fawn over Guardiola’s ‘reinvention of footy’ or whatever the claim is at present.

The issue with this is that it really doesn’t ‘just affect the teams at the top’, it affects everyone in football, including your Ipswiches, you just haven’t realised it yet.
 
No. My solution to this problem is to enforce FFP, or publicly abandon it.

If City had abided by the rules they’d still be vastly more wealthy than every other team in the PL bar Newcastle.

But that wasn’t enough of a head start for City, they needed to cheat also.

But judging from your ill-informed ABU type last few posts in here you’re not too bothered and would rather fawn over Guardiola’s ‘reinvention of footy’ or whatever the claim is at present.

The issue with this is that it really doesn’t ‘just affect the teams at the top’, it affects everyone in football, including your Ipswiches, you just haven’t realised it yet.

Enforcing FFP would absolutely make Utd the biggest/richest club again, with no hope of that changing.

I agree it should be publicly abandoned though.

And I’ve no idea what you’re talking about re Guardiola, I’ve not mentioned him, so I think that’s your inner consciousness speaking.
 
We need a better FFP with real hard cap salaries or preferably hard wage bill cap that no club gets to spend over no matter how rich they get. Of course this means State ownership needs to be banned totally.


There is noway around that.
 
Liverpool didn't win the league for 30 years, and if City were still championship fodder then United would have won just two titles out of the last ten, such is our bad management and our (correct) punishment for being so inept.
If you take out City the winners of the PL over the years would have been Arsenal, Liverpool, United and the financially doped Chelsea

Also Leicester did win the league in 15-16 ( i know, i know, a million to one, never going to happen again etc.)
Leicester, who got back to the PL thanks to financial doping from a billionaire owner, and are now facing relegation in large part because ownership decided to stop bankrolling them.

In the end I agree with @Rhyme Animal on this. There are rules in place and if they're allowed to just break them with impunity, while everybody else abided by them, then we're talking about doctored competition, equal to bribing refs for example
 
Enforcing FFP would absolutely make Utd the biggest/richest club again, with no hope of that changing.

I agree it should be publicly abandoned though.

And I’ve no idea what you’re talking about re Guardiola, I’ve not mentioned him, so I think that’s your inner consciousness speaking.

I think FFP should be abandoned. The biggest push for abiding with FFP are big clubs who feel their comfortable seat at the top will be threatened

Realistically how can a club topple Bayern in Germany without violating FFP. Before doped Chelsea came into it, Man utd was strolling to titles since they only had mediocre Arsenal to deal with

It's hypocrisy to see fans of clubs like Milan Chelsea and even some of the legacy clubs like Man Utd, Bayern, Madrid who got some advantage in the past trying to gatekeep for others seeking to get into their hallowed chambers.

There were surely clubs in 1990s who felt it was unfair for Milan to come from division 2 and in the next 8 yrs made 5 European cup finals
 
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Mmm i think it's actually pretty close, and really hard to compare. At a simple "which team would win" City would smash barcelona 8 times out of 10, but that's a byproduct of eras. The closest thing that Barcelona side faced to this City would be Bayern in '13, and they had a manager with cancer and an injured Messi at the time, but the games were so uncompetitive it's hard to envision much would have changed anyways. Simply put City play too fast, too physical, for Guardiola-era Barcelona. They're also far more used to facing sides like them then the opposite. Again, the only thing even close to City they faced was Bayern the one time, City don't face Messi and Iniesta but they are facing teams who are just as tactically organized and similar in playing style on a relatively regular basis.

On a talent level Barcelona were better, and they revolutionized the sport, City are basically the pinnacle of the sport's evolution started by Barcelona. Guardiola too is a far better manager nowadays than he was then. Relative to their eras, I think Barcelona have the edge, but again, they had the rather huge advantage of being ahead of the curve, like Sacchi's Milan in their time, whereas City don't have that advantage

Great post.
 
Enforcing FFP would absolutely make Utd the biggest/richest club again, with no hope of that changing.

I agree it should be publicly abandoned though.

And I’ve no idea what you’re talking about re Guardiola, I’ve not mentioned him, so I think that’s your inner consciousness speaking.
Why no hope? If we continue being run into the ground by the Glazers and Liverpool under Klopp and Arsenal under Arteta share the next 10 PL titles wouldn’t their revenue and value see an enormous rise and ours gradually fall? We’re slowly falling behind in infrastructure it’s possible in other metrics too. With City not being there to cheat you’d see the likes of Spurs or even Brighton make the CL more as well. What’s the point of allowing rules to be broken and a government propping up one club at the expense of others who stand no chance anymore?
 
I think FFP should be abandoned. The biggest push for abiding with FFP are big clubs who feel their comfortable seat at the top will be threatened

Realistically how can a club topple Bayern in Germany without violating FFP. Before doped Chelsea came into it, Man utd was strolling to titles since they only had mediocre Arsenal to deal with

It's hypocrisy to see fans of clubs like Milan Chelsea and even some of the legacy clubs like Man Utd, Bayern, Madrid who got some advantage in the past trying to gatekeep for others seeking to get into their hallowed chambers.

There were surely clubs in 1990s who felt it was unfair for Milan to come from division 2 and in the next 8 yrs made 5 European cup finals
Well Said brilliant post .
 
Why no hope? If we continue being run into the ground by the Glazers and Liverpool under Klopp and Arsenal under Arteta share the next 10 PL titles wouldn’t their revenue and value see an enormous rise and ours gradually fall? We’re slowly falling behind in infrastructure it’s possible in other metrics too. With City not being there to cheat you’d see the likes of Spurs or even Brighton make the CL more as well. What’s the point of allowing rules to be broken and a government propping up one club at the expense of others who stand no chance anymore?
And Liverpool and Arsenal just happen to be biggest Clubs in terms of Domestic Titles behind United .

You can make an argument against State ownerships of the clubs that's fair enough but artificial restriction on how much money a Club can spend when their owners are ready to bankroll them is actually anti competitive and needlessly slows down their progress while maintaining the established order.

And your example of likes of Tottenham actually proves the case against FFP to be honest while they ran their Club really well according to some but still needed other top clubs to be mismanaged and underperform to actually make head way and despite all that it seems they are back to where they started .

Thing is smaller clubs need to get everything right over a long period of time and still need Established clubs to drop the ball to make little headway and even then their stay at the top table is tenuous at best .
 
And Liverpool and Arsenal just happen to be biggest Clubs in terms of Domestic Titles behind United .

You can make an argument against State ownerships of the clubs that's fair enough but artificial restriction on how much money a Club can spend when their owners are ready to bankroll them is actually anti competitive and needlessly slows down their progress while maintaining the established order.

And your example of likes of Tottenham actually proves the case against FFP to be honest while they ran their Club really well according to some but still needed other top clubs to be mismanaged and underperform to actually make head way and despite all that it seems they are back to where they started .

Thing is smaller clubs need to get everything right over a long period of time and still need Established clubs to drop the ball to make little headway and even then their stay at the top table is tenuous at best .
And that is always the case. Generally only a couple of the traditionally big clubs are being well run so it always leaves space for others to enter.

Artifical restrictions are required. To safeguard clubs from going under and ensure growth is as organic as it can be.
 
And that is always the case. Generally only a couple of the traditionally big clubs are being well run so it always leaves space for others to enter.

Artifical restrictions are required. To safeguard clubs from going under and ensure growth is as organic as it can be.

It took Roman's millions to create Chelsea capable enough to stop United . And Please show me examples of these so called well run Clubs which become truly elite capable of regularly challenging and winning Multiple titles without serious cash injections from their Owners .

Artificial restrictions aren't safe guarding anything Clubs could still go under they are just creating a false Ceiling for so called lesser Clubs by preventing new Owners who are willing and capable by limiting their spending.

All this FFP does is gives undue advantage to already Established big Clubs and protects their seat at top table .
 
And that is always the case. Generally only a couple of the traditionally big clubs are being well run so it always leaves space for others to enter.

Artifical restrictions are required. To safeguard clubs from going under and ensure growth is as organic as it can be.

This is what usually happens,
The traditional big club(s) get badly run
A smaller club overperform and wins the title
The big clubs use their vast resources they got over the years and strip the smaller club to barebones
The smaller club goes down and the bigger clubs stay up while pontificating on how the small club is doing/should do the right thing by going down

Leicester won the league and lost their best players Kante and Mahrez. Instead of adding stronger players to keep them at the top, they are now in fear of relegation
Spurs from their great run under Poch has hardly gotten any significant investment to help Kane and Son. They are likely to lose Kane and probably go midtable
Bayern faltered, Dortmund overperformed winning the league and making the CL final. The reward was to lose their star players every season for the past 10yrs.
Dortmund could have become a powerhouse if they had the resources to keep Lewandowski, Aubameyang Gundogan Haaland, Mikitaryan, Dembele, Pulisic Sancho, Bellingham etc
In Italy Juve got badly run, Napoli won this title. In 3yrs Napoli would have been stripped of Kvara, Osimehn etc and probably back to fighting for top 4 possibly worse

A smaller club have to sell their top stars, and Hope all the replacement would be an instant hit while a big club can do with getting 30% of its transfer right
What Coventry felt for Man Utd in the 90s is probably no different from what Bournemouth feels or City right now (Oh look at those privileged clubs)
 
This is what usually happens,
The traditional big club(s) get badly run
A smaller club overperform and wins the title
The big clubs use their vast resources they got over the years and strip the smaller club to barebones
The smaller club goes down and the bigger clubs stay up while pontificating on how the small club is doing/should do the right thing by going down

Leicester won the league and lost their best players Kante and Mahrez. Instead of adding stronger players to keep them at the top, they are now in fear of relegation
Spurs from their great run under Poch has hardly gotten any significant investment to help Kane and Son. They are likely to lose Kane and probably go midtable
Bayern faltered, Dortmund overperformed winning the league and making the CL final. The reward was to lose their star players every season for the past 10yrs.
Dortmund could have become a powerhouse if they had the resources to keep Lewandowski, Aubameyang Gundogan Haaland, Mikitaryan, Dembele, Pulisic Sancho, Bellingham etc
In Italy Juve got badly run, Napoli won this title. In 3yrs Napoli would have been stripped of Kvara, Osimehn etc and probably back to fighting for top 4 possibly worse

A smaller club have to sell their top stars, and Hope all the replacement would be an instant hit while a big club can do with getting 30% of its transfer right
What Coventry felt for Man Utd in the 90s is probably no different from what Bournemouth feels or City right now (Oh look at those privileged clubs)
I don’t think you’re getting the point. There’s no denying that the idea of Bournemouth making their way to regular PL title challengers is delusional. That’s not a football problem but a life problem as even in the real world challenging a bohemian that has spend decades building its stature, takes something special - as it should. However, whether we go under tomorrow or not, achievements being organic or as much as they can, are crucial for the sanctity of the sport. For some, they just want to see more competitors regardless of how they are funded and who whored themselves to which billionaire for a promise of being their fun play thing. For others, the road to success has to be grounded in the organic reality of that club. You could even find a middle ground but I don’t agree with no FFP.

Either way, if there are 100 rules breached you don’t deserve to be respected nor recognised - that’s beyond debate imo. Cheating need to be clamped out whether paying off refs or breaking financial regulation.
 
Their first loss in ages. Could this be the start of a bad run?
 
They honestly weren't even that good today. Inter have a chance if they play like that again. I'll adopt them as a second team if they can pull it off.
 
Its expected really but worlds apart, class of 92 vs financial doping
 
Just like Liverpool winning the league, there's nothing you can do about it, just like there was nothing their fans could do about our successes. It doesn't matter really does it, my life wasn't over when Liverpool won the premier league, it won't end when City win the treble treble or whatever. The reality is that city will win at least a trophy each year for decades to come. 17/18 in 13 years or something? It'll just be nice to challenge them and get some ourselves along the way.
 
Cheating their way to success. feck giving them credit. Hope we see this stripped off them too
 
The moment they were bought by their filthy rich owner, we knew this will happen. But it still hurts. At least we made them sweat a little for this cup. And progress is clear. Something to look forward to for next season.
 
If they play like today against Inter they will be in a big trouble. United are not fast enough in transitions but the Italians are. Lets see how Pep will approach the final in a week..
 
We had out chance to stop them and came up short.

We have no right to whinge about it when they get it next Saturday.

#sucksbuttrue