Man City's inevitable Treble

Irwin99 said:
:lol:. Both the players I mentioned are world cup winners and one of the best midfield partnerships the premier league has ever seen. Do you not think a player of Petit's natural ability and athleticism would be able to beat the press or manage to counter press if he was in a modern team :lol: .

I don't doubt that players are fitter and have better diets and coaching nowadays, i'm talking about the actual level of quality of the players, their technique, natural ability/strength etc. I think the likes of Petit and Vieira are a bit better than the players you have in mind.
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I absolutely do not think so. Sure, train Petit for a couple of years with modenr tactics and he would be superb. Teletransport him in modern football, and he would look a clown before getting permanently benched.

I genuinely think that this City vs United 1999 would be a massacre. Football quality is far superior than 25 years ago. Players are better, fitter, stronger, have better diets, have better coaching and match analyzing that it would end only one way.
 
Nogho said:
Sorry about that. I see what you mean.
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,
As long as folks understand it doesn't really matter, as a newbie you'll learn quickly that if you aren't clear and accurate the results won't be pretty, and even if they are clear there's no guarantee :)
 
Revan said:
I absolutely do not think so. Sure, train Petit for a couple of years with modenr tactics and he would be superb. Teletransport him in modern football, and he would look a clown before getting permanently benched.

I genuinely think that this City vs United 1999 would be a massacre. Football quality is far superior than 25 years ago. Players are better, fitter, stronger, have better diets, have better coaching and match analyzing that it would end only one way.
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You're assuming that yesterday's players couldn't possible succeed in today's game because they wouldn't be able to handle modern tactics, diets and such like, that's the biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard of
 
Revan said:
They would look like fools against Brighton and Newcastle. With the passing from the back and pressing from front, they would completely struggle playing against most teams.

I know that it is cool to romanticize the past, but it is absolutely foolish to think that teams are not far better nowadays. And yes, for all those teams were tough, players nowadays are significantly fitter. Most stats show that, teams nowadays run far more than in the past, players do far more sprints. While playing far more games.
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Do you think if those players were in this era they wouldn’t have same fitness resources like the players of today? Players like Modric,Benzema,T Silva & Ibra cross over with players from that era like Giggs & Scholes and there’s literally no differences.
 
Red in STL said:
,
As long as folks understand it doesn't really matter, as a newbie you'll learn quickly that if you aren't clear and accurate the results won't be pretty, and even if they are clear there's no guarantee :)
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Indeed.
 
Wishful thinking is all we have left to cling to so hopefully now the title is wrapped up they’ll pick up some bad habits and complacency in these last three league games.

You know, rather than spend the next two weeks preparing to annihilate us.
 
Brighton and Newcastle would beat the 99 team because they pass out from the back and press, wow, I think I've heard it all on here now.


BTW it was called closing down in 99 and did exist then as well.
 
I’m waiting to hear about the results from the investigation into City's potential cheating before handing out any plaudits. I’m surprised that the pundits aren’t taking the same approach.
 
Moving the post here because someone called PepG in the other thread insisted that it was "all drivel."

Allowing for the fact that they still have the two finals to play and have not yet won the treble, their season is best described as follows:

PL: City barely spent a moment in 1st place, Arsenal just lacked the mettle to see out a season without collapsing. All the other big clubs in the league collectively had a shit season and didn't even attempt to challenge. This will have been the easiest title win in the history of English football. Literally any team that wasn't automatically destined to bottle it would have won the league under these circumstances.

CL: One of the easiest groups you could hope for with no other really big teams in it, and then both of the big teams they faced in the knockouts are having a rough season with big problems. This year's Real Madrid and Bayern are at their worst in over a decade, there has never been a better time to face them. Then the raw luck to be facing Inter, the third best team in Italy who haven't been anywhere near European final since 2010, instead of a really tough opponent. City never had to overcome any serious challenges throughout this entire campaign. A final against Inter is probably the second-least daunting in the 21st century after Liverpool's final against Tottenham. The wind has been in City's back every moment of the way through this tournament.

FA Cup: Coasted to the final through trivial championship opponents and facing a United side in the infancy of a possible revival, with a new manager, crushed by fatigue from playing close to the maximum possible number of matches a team can play in a season, and in very poor form.

All this while under investigation for historically unprecedented levels of cheating. It remains entirely within the realm of possibility that it may be retroactively revoked, depending on the verdict. That's some shadow to have hanging over a potential treble.

At no point did they ever have to overcome any odds, fight for impressive comebacks or produce moments of memorable brilliance. Just handed the path of least resistance at every turn, coasting to victory thanks to the fact that every team who might normally have given them difficulties was in a rough spot when they played City. It's winning a footrace because all the other runners twisted their ankles at the start signal. And while they may very well win the treble under these unreasonably lucky circumstances, the world may be looking back on it in one or two years as the result of systematic cheating.

It will have been the least commendable treble ever won by any club, anywhere.
 
Irwin99 said:
Giggs, Scholes and Neville all said that that Arsenal side was better than the invincibles and the toughest domestic side they ever faced.
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The invincibles are massively overrated, and players are rarely reliable on these things

That arsenal side wasn't just "not used to europe", they just weren't that good. It's not like they got better over the years
 
The media can harp on about how great the PL is all they want, but City have now won the PL five out of the last six times, and this was probably the most boring of the lot, with two games to go. And all this amidst hundreds of financial rule breaks that they seem to have no interest on mentioning amidst the hysteria.

Boring team, boring league, something needs to be done.
 
giorno said:
The invincibles are massively overrated, and players are rarely reliable on these things

That arsenal side wasn't just "not used to europe", they just weren't that good. It's not like they got better over the years
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Yeah, and as noted in another thread, there's a reason we still occasionally hear such songs as 'one nil to the Arsenal' and 'same old Arsenal, always cheating.' Those songs come from that time, stemming from the way that Arsenal side played, thuggish and usually winning by a single goal (or just drawing). It was not impressive on the whole. It was unsightly football. Effective, and well done to go unbeaten for a season, but some of the ugliest football ever delivered by a title-winning side. They had one of the lowest goal tallies and highest number of draws ever for an English champion team, barely scraping by in most games. No doubt they had some very good players, and I respect Wenger in general, but they were not a force to be reckoned with.
 
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Dansk said:
Moving the post here because someone called PepG in the other thread insisted that it was "all drivel."

Allowing for the fact that they still have the two finals to play and have not yet won the treble, their season is best described as follows:

PL: City barely spent a moment in 1st place, Arsenal just lacked the mettle to see out a season without collapsing. All the other big clubs in the league collectively had a shit season and didn't even attempt to challenge. This will have been the easiest title win in the history of English football. Literally any team that wasn't automatically destined to bottle it would have won the league under these circumstances.

CL: One of the easiest groups you could hope for with no other really big teams in it, and then both of the big teams they faced in the knockouts are having a rough season with big problems. This year's Real Madrid and Bayern are at their worst in over a decade, there has never been a better time to face them. Then the raw luck to be facing Inter, the third best team in Italy who haven't been anywhere near European final since 2010, instead of a really tough opponent. City never had to overcome any serious challenges throughout this entire campaign. A final against Inter is probably the second-least daunting in the 21st century after Liverpool's final against Tottenham. The wind has been in City's back every moment of the way through this tournament.

FA Cup: Coasted to the final through trivial championship opponents and facing a United side in the infancy of a possible revival, with a new manager, crushed by fatigue from playing close to the maximum possible number of matches a team can play in a season, and in very poor form.

All this while under investigation for historically unprecedented levels of cheating. It remains entirely within the realm of possibility that it may be retroactively revoked, depending on the verdict. That's some shadow to have hanging over a potential treble.

At no point did they ever have to overcome any odds, fight for impressive comebacks or produce moments of memorable brilliance. Just handed the path of least resistance at every turn, coasting to victory thanks to the fact that every team who might normally have given them difficulties was in a rough spot when they played City. It's winning a footrace because all the other runners twisted their ankles at the start signal. And while they may very well win the treble under these unreasonably lucky circumstances, the world may be looking back on it in one or two years as the result of systematic cheating.

It will have been the least commendable treble ever won by any club, anywhere.
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So you're saying this City team's not all that special, right?
 
Massive Spanner said:
The media can harp on about how great the PL is all they want, but City have now won the PL five out of the last six times, and this was probably the most boring of the lot, with two games to go. And all this amidst hundreds of financial rule breaks that they seem to have no interest on mentioning amidst the hysteria.

Boring team, boring league, something needs to be done.
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United dominated to a similar level and we didn’t complain obviously. We all know the difference though. Man City aren’t a proper club, they were at one point but were relatively small. It’s just a front for Abu Dhabi mow. It’s totally shocking how the media just ignores these charges against them but I understand why sky don’t talk about it to protect the integrity of the league. But it’s gone IMO.
 
Shakesey said:
So you're saying this City team's not all that special, right?
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They're exceptionally effective on the pitch, but there's no soul or magic to it at all, and there's about eighteen asterisks after this possible upcoming treble.
 
Dansk said:
They're exceptionally effective on the pitch, but there's no soul or magic to it at all, and there's about eighteen asterisks after this possible upcoming treble.
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Oh I agree, it's hollow. I just think you're letting the asterisks cloud your judgement on just how incredibly effective they are.
 
I'm not. I can see with my own eyes how effective they are. It's just all built on cheating and the sportswashing ambitions of a human rights nightmare, and it remains true that in this particular season, absolutely all of the dice came out in their favor as all teams they had to face were having a shit season or are far beneath their level to begin with (i.e. Arsenal in the league, us in the FA Cup, Inter in a bloody CL final).

Anytime they've had to face a real challenge - Liverpool when they weren't shit, Real Madrid when they weren't shit - they've faltered. Eventually (meaning this year), those teams became shit and City meandered to automatic victory because nobody happened to be in a position to mount a meaningful challenge. That makes it a far less impressive treble, if they win it, than what is normally expected of, and accomplished by, a treble-winning team.
 
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Dansk said:
I'm not. I can see with my own eyes how effective they are. It's just all built on cheating and the sportswashing ambitions of a human rights nightmare, and it remains true that in this particular season, absolutely all of the dice came out in their favor as all teams they had to face were having a shit season or are far beneath their level to begin with (i.e. Arsenal in the league, us in the FA Cup, Inter in a bloody CL final).

Anytime they've had to face a real challenge - Liverpool when they weren't shit, Real Madrid when they weren't shit - they've faltered. Eventually (meaning this year), those teams became shit and City meandered to automatic victory because nobody happened to be in a position to mount a meaningful challenge.
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Feck, you just keep editing that post :lol:
 
Massive Spanner said:
The media can harp on about how great the PL is all they want, but City have now won the PL five out of the last six times, and this was probably the most boring of the lot, with two games to go. And all this amidst hundreds of financial rule breaks that they seem to have no interest on mentioning amidst the hysteria.

Boring team, boring league, something needs to be done.
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It’s really weird.
 
Offside said:
United dominated to a similar level and we didn’t complain obviously. We all know the difference though. Man City aren’t a proper club, they were at one point but were relatively small. It’s just a front for Abu Dhabi mow. It’s totally shocking how the media just ignores these charges against them but I understand why sky don’t talk about it to protect the integrity of the league. But it’s gone IMO.
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Fergie earned that dominance in the 90s though. He built an incredible team without breaking any rules or spending crazy amounts of money, and then he built other great teams over and over. City, a total nothing entity, spent a fortune that they never had, broke an insane amount of rules, hired arguably the greatest league manager of all time along the way, and broke loads more financial rules, and here we are, with the media somehow celebrating this shite. It’s insane. Where else could you blatantly cheat so much and have people praise you for it? Ashley Madison?
 
Somewhere out there there's people who think United are still dominating English football, all they hear is 'Manchester' and the rest they assume.
 
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Shakesey said:
Feck, you just keep editing that post :lol:
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Yeah, I'm a compulsive post-editer. I know. I do try to do it quickly before replies, but it's a bad habit.

I hit 'post' and then I'm like, "oh, I forgot to say this...!"
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
It’s really weird.
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No they're quiet because they don't wanna be sued, when all is said and done at this moment in time it's all allegations, print or say the wrong thing could get you in a whole world of trouble
 
Dansk said:
Yeah, I'm a compulsive post-editer. I know. I do try to do it quickly before replies, but it's a bad habit.

I hit 'post' and then I'm like, "oh, I forgot to say this...!"
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:lol: :lol:

You did it again! Anyway, I agree in principle with everything you said. Apart from undermining their efforts. The cheating scum did well, and would probably do well in any era.
 
Shakesey said:
:lol: :lol:

You did it again! Anyway, I agree in principle with everything you said. Apart from undermining their efforts. The cheating scum did well, and would probably do well in any era.
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Sure, but if I go and buy a car that's faster than any other car can possibly be, and win the Formula 1, was I good or did I just happen to be able to afford the fastest car that nobody else had access to?
 
Dansk said:
Sure, but if I go and buy a car that's faster than any other car can possibly be, and win the Formula 1, was I good or did I just happen to be able to afford the fastest car that nobody else had access to?
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Not sure if you're going to edit this, but anyway, you have the fastest car. You're the best.

Only thing is, you claimed City won/might win not only because they have the fastest car, but because all the other cars had flat tires.
 
Yorkeontop said:
Some out there there's people who think United are still dominating English football, all they hear is 'Manchester' and the rest they assume.
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To be fair, in a lot of non-English speaking countries, United are referred to as just 'Manchester'.

In fact, Pep Guardiola himself used to do it when he managed Barca. The video has disappeared from YouTube now, but there used to be a clip of him being asked by Clive Tyldesley who United's greatest player is, and Pep replies

"From Manchester? Scholes."

United are still a bigger club than City, treble be damned.
 
Shakesey said:
Not sure if you're going to edit this, but anyway, you have the fastest car. You're the best.

Only thing is, you claimed City won/might win not only because they have the fastest car, but because all the other cars had flat tires.
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I resisted editing it, thank you very much.

But let's say I'm not necessarily the best driver, I was just able to race in the fastest car. Did I win or did the car (i.e. some oil state)?

And I do maintain that City are approaching a treble in large part because they've had the good fortune to face a road towards a treble where absolutely all teams who might normally make it tough for anyone to win a treble is having a tough season. Do you disagree with that? That it's rather lucky to be facing Bayern and Real Madrid in this particular season in the CL, and then Inter in the final; and that all other English clubs are currently in the process of putting a team back together after a calamity, barring Arsenal who punched far above their weight up until the start of the new year? That facing literally nothing but championship opponents all the way to the FA Cup final is remarkably fortunate? I would have to imagine that someone who can string a coherent sentence together, like you, would not be blind to the fact that every possible star has aligned to create a potential treble-winning season for City, whereas other treble-winners (not just in England but in general) have had to work much harder for it.
 
Apparently BeIN Sports’ Richard Keys insisted on their title being questionable in the TV coverage. Some on Twitter aren’t happy about it…

 
Dansk said:
Yeah, and as noted in another thread, there's a reason we still occasionally hear such songs as 'one nil to the Arsenal' and 'same old Arsenal, always cheating.' Those songs come from that time, stemming from the way that Arsenal side played, thuggish and usually winning by a single goal (or just drawing). It was not impressive on the whole. It was unsightly football. Effective, and well done to go unbeaten for a season, but some of the ugliest football ever delivered by a title-winning side. They had one of the lowest goal tallies and highest number of draws ever for an English champion team, barely scraping by in most games. No doubt they had some very good players, and I respect Wenger in general, but they were not a force to be reckoned with.
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The 1-0 to the arsenal came from a lot longer ago than that.
Although it was a relevant song for the invincibles too
 
Pintu said:
Apparently BeIN Sports’ Richard Keys insisted on their title being questionable in the TV coverage. Some on Twitter aren’t happy about it…

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Surely when there are so many serious charges being investigated it would be normal for the subject to be suspended until it’s cleared up?
 
Dansk said:
I resisted editing it, thank you very much.

But let's say I'm not necessarily the best driver, I was just able to race in the fastest car. Did I win or did the car (i.e. some oil state)?

And I do maintain that City are approaching a treble in large part because they've had the good fortune to face a road towards a treble where absolutely all teams who might normally make it tough for anyone to win a treble is having a tough season. Do you disagree with that? That it's rather lucky to be facing Bayern and Real Madrid in this particular season in the CL, and that all other English clubs are currently in the process of putting a team back together after a calamity, barring Arsenal who punched far above their weight up until the start of the new year? I would have to imagine that someone who can string a coherent sentence together, like you, would not be blind to the fact that every possible star has aligned to create a potential treble-winning season for City, whereas other treble-winners (not just in England but in general) have had to work much harder for it.
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I certainly agree.

Thing is, if cheating City won the treble with soul and heart and were pushed to the limit, would it be more bearable? No. Because they're cheating cnuts. That's it. So, why even mention that the other teams have been (made to look) shite? Does it matter? Not really, because City are cheating cnuts.

Their cheating built a fantastic team, which I reckon would give most teams over the last 20 years a run for their cleaner money. They are having an easier route to the treble, but they would probably have made it regardless.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Surely when there are so many serious charges being investigated it would be normal for the subject to be suspended until it’s cleared up?
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Anyone who would insist that there isn't a number of asterisks after a title won by a team currently under investigation for historically unprecedented levels of cheating is someone whose opinion I would value about as highly as the taste of the soles of my shoes.
 
Shakesey said:
I certainly agree.

Thing is, if cheating City won the treble with soul and heart and were pushed to the limit, would it be more bearable? No. Because they're cheating cnuts. That's it. So, why even mention that the other teams have been (made to look) shite? Does it matter? Not really, because City are cheating cnuts.

Their cheating built a fantastic team, which I reckon would give most teams over the last 20 years a run for their cleaner money. They are having an easier route to the treble, but they would probably have made it regardless.
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No, I disagree. At the risk of navel-gazing, let's take our '99 season for comparison. It's really the only other example we can point to, from an English perspective (I'm not English but I did get a degree in it). What's different here?

1) The league. Granted, it was won against the same team, but it was a fierce fight that went to the wire in '99. Both were "self-made," so to speak. Wenger's Arsenal versus Ferguson's United, both the product of legendary managers whose own credentials created this rivalry. In fact, while United and Arsenal are not cultural rivals, we're halfway rivals just because of the personalities that butted heads during this time. It was not one team bending over and pulling its trousers down for the other because it just didn't have the mental fortitude to make it through a full season. It was an actual battle.

2) The cup. I'm sure I don't need to say much. The fact that one of the most historically memorable events of the FA Cup in its entirety comes not even from a final but from a semi-final from the year in question says all that needs to be said of how amazing that season was. Compare that to 2023 where City moseyed through an entire cup run where they faced no top-flight opponents until a final against an ailing, exhausted United side in mid-rebuild.

3) And then, of course, the Champion's League. Even just the group stage: United, Bayern and bloody Barcelona in one group. I could drop the microphone right here and everyone would get my meaning. Then we had knockout ties against Inter and Juventus in an era when these were some of the most gruelling opponents one might imagine. Then the final where I'll spare everyone the eight-page essay that one could write. City have had a walk in the park by comparison, facing teams that were old and/or in disarray, or punching far above expectations for that stage of the competition (i.e. Inter).

That is what a worthy treble is about. Hell, it doesn't even need to meet that standard, because our '99 season could be called an unreasonable bar to set, since it's so amazingly high. Even if we lower that bar five notches, it'll still hang feet above the heads of the dull, shrugworthy season that City has had. And if the opposition that City have had to face on the route to a potential treble was the only thing that brought me consternation, that could feasibly be called sour grapes; but when it has all happened while that club is under investigation for grotesque levels of cheating, of which we frankly all know they're guilty, I think that it's entirely rational and fair to call any treble they may eventually win the lowest possible version of a treble that anyone could imagine.
 
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17 Van der Gouw said:
To be fair, in a lot of non-English speaking countries, United are referred to as just 'Manchester'.

In fact, Pep Guardiola himself used to do it when he managed Barca. The video has disappeared from YouTube now, but there used to be a clip of him being asked by Clive Tyldesley who United's greatest player is, and Pep replies

"From Manchester? Scholes."

United are still a bigger club than City, treble be damned.
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It only dawned on me today actually.
 
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