Maguire | NOT McGuire or MacGuire

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Harry190 said:
Ienacho, hard name to write, within the first 10 mins. Shot from the left side of the pen area, goes inches past the far post.
Him again, twice in the pen area, not strong enough to finish, one time shirt being pulled by Lindelof who was in panic mode, could have easily been a pen if he had not been very honest and stayed on his feet, Iborra when De Gea mishit a pass and Lindelof was completely out of it, but poor first touch wasted the opportunity. That Vardy volley as you mentioned. In the middle of the season, that's in.

Every ball that went on his side, dead. Both situations where United scored, Morgan's side. Even off the ball. Couldn't get past him nor Chilwell.

Sideways passes? Watch the game again. He'd come through the middle and ping them accurately down the flanks to set up Leicester's account, but of course, since he's the opposition, the analysis is gonna be biased, isn't it? EVERY ball of his has to be meaningful otherwise he is average, probably just like that Perreira dude was average or Gray wouldn't be an improvement over Mata.

He was a threat on dead balls, that's why the setup was to get them before they reached him. They never got the delivery right for their dead balls this match. He's usually standing at the far post to head in slightly over hit ones. Like Fellaini.
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Ihenacho was offside for rhatbchance that flashed past the post. Missed by the linesman. Getting into the box but doing. nothing isn’t a chance. But no, there isn’t any bias considering I was in favor of United signing him but when he does nothing special and United’s Center halves, who are ridiculed at every turn play well, I question why there was ever a thought of splashing the kind of money being that was reported.

One thing I do remember is Lukaku escaping his marking quite easily for his chance and Schmeichel spared his blushes. Maguire was ball watching. This isn’t me saying he’s not a good player. I’m saying he’s not a 75m player and he likely never will be.

At the end of the day, we disagree about the performance, and I really don’t want to waste time arguing about a player that doesn’t player for United and likely never will.
 
Jimmy Skitz said:
having a CB or a keeper as your best player is always a bad thing, no matter how much they are worth, if a defensive player is your best player your team isn't up to much
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Doesn't make sense that. Put Ramos in your team and he'll be your best player nearly every game. How would that be a negative for you:wenger:
 
jmaggio said:
Slabhead just got the winner against Soton. Do wish we had got him, but last year when we were reportedly offered him for 15m.
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Thought he drove with the ball far more with hull than he does for Leicester
Think he's decent with his feet but obviously dangerous with set pieces (well those which don't hit the first man)
Assuming nobody top went for him cos he was part of a relegated team but the few games I saw him he looked like a potentially good player
 
Sylar said:
Thought he drove with the ball far more with hull than he does for Leicester
Think he's decent with his feet but obviously dangerous with set pieces (well those which don't hit the first man)
Assuming nobody top went for him cos he was part of a relegated team but the few games I saw him he looked like a potentially good player
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Spurs wanted him before they got Sanchez, he chose us over them for first team football
 
Jimmy Skitz said:
Spurs wanted him before they got Sanchez, he chose us over them for first team football
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Fair play to him if that was the case
But weird then that spurs were the only club
Thought United, arsenal, Liverpool (tho they wanted vvd) and maybe even Chelsea could have gone for him
 
Sylar said:
Fair play to him if that was the case
But weird then that spurs were the only club
Thought United, arsenal, Liverpool (tho they wanted vvd) and maybe even Chelsea could have gone for him
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Spurs are the only one I know for sure as he mentioned turning them down in an interview, he was probably offered to everyone, we signed him very early last summer though
 
jmaggio said:
That’s fair enough. I’ve got a feeling he will stay with Leicester now and become club captain.
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If it would take £75m or so for anyone to buy him, and he's got a 4 year contract, then there doesn't seem any chance he's going anywhere. Therefore, he might as well try and sign a new deal and massively up his wages.
 
Like him a lot but when you start setting unhealthy precedents in the transfer market, it can come back and bite you in the future. Pogba price was realistic, so was Roms. Buying Harry doesn't as you are buying a good player but Id argue there are probably at least 5-6 CB in the prem better than he is so why would you be breaking or equalling the record to get him?
 
Litch said:
Like him a lot but when you start setting unhealthy precedents in the transfer market, it can come back and bite you in the future. Pogba price was realistic, so was Roms. Buying Harry doesn't as you are buying a good player but Id argue there are probably at least 5-6 CB in the prem better than he is so why would you be breaking or equalling the record to get him?
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So what's the alternative?
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I think get the best out of whatever you have and wait for a better opportunity in the next window.
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We don't have that level of ball playing centreback, which clearly is what Jose wanted in order to improve our ball retention and transitions up the pitch. Is there guaranteed to be a better option next window, particularly when it's notoriously diffocult to sign quality in January?
 
Fergie didn't flinch to spend good money on English/British players that he wanted.

But then, his record with expensive British players were excellent, though. All improved and became the backbone of the team for years.
 
ivaldo said:
We don't have that level of ball playing centreback, which clearly is what Jose wanted in order to improve our ball retention and transitions up the pitch. Is there guaranteed to be a better option next window, particularly when it's notoriously diffocult to sign quality in January?
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Yeah I agree its very difficult to get players in January. I don't know, I am on the fence here. Maguire is good and would have been a key defender for us, but for 75m? Jose put himself in a difficult spot by the pointless signing of Lindelof. He is average and doesn't look to improve. If we hadn't bought him, huge money for maguire would have been justified.
 
ivaldo said:
So what's the alternative?
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Doesn't have to be one. Might be me and whilst there's been calls for a CB or fullbacks, I can't remember many games that we lost because of the defence last season. Yes we have DDG, but isn't he part of the defence. For me if everything in front of them was better or more cohesive, then the focus wouldn't be on the defence. Not blaming Rom but scoring last week would have probably changed the outcome of the game. We are still waiting for other offensive attacking players to give us a good 90mins and honestly I can't remember when that last happened. How can we win things when our best attacking players collectively fail to turn up? I honestly don't think we can just continue to buy players when we can't get a tune out of those who are already here...
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Yeah I agree its very difficult to get players in January. I don't know, I am on the fence here. Maguire is good and would have been a key defender for us, but for 75m? Jose put himself in a difficult spot by the pointless signing of Lindelof. He is average and doesn't look to improve. If we hadn't bought him, huge money for maguire would have been justified.
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I don't mind Lindelof, but I agree if Jose doesn't trust him then he's a waste of a money. Ultimately, Jose wanted a specific type of player in order to change the way we play, and to theoretically close the gap with City. If no other option is available, then you have to pay they premium in order to bring him in.
 
Litch said:
Doesn't have to be one. Might be me and whilst there's been calls for a CB or fullbacks, I can't remember many games that we lost because of the defence last season. Yes we have DDG, but isn't he part of the defence. For me if everything in front of them was better or more cohesive, then the focus wouldn't be on the defence. Not blaming Rom but scoring last week would have probably changed the outcome of the game. We are still waiting for other offensive attacking players to give us a good 90mins and honestly I can't remember when that last happened. How can we win things when our best attacking players collectively fail to turn up?
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It's more than just signing someone who is better at defending. It was obvious we were looking to specifically sign a ball playing centreback. Far too often we failed to properly distribute the ball from the back, and attacks broke down before they had even begun. How often did our defenders lump it forward, even when it was pretty obvious it was part of the plan? If we have a proper distributor at the back, then the midfield don't need to drop deeper to pick up the ball from the CB, and our attackers don't need to drop deeper to fill the gaps vacated by the midfield. It's not going to solve all our problems, but it will certainly help.
 
ivaldo said:
I don't mind Lindelof, but I agree if Jose doesn't trust him then he's a waste of a money. Ultimately, Jose wanted a specific type of player in order to change the way we play, and to theoretically close the gap with City. If no other option is available, then you have to pay they premium in order to bring him in.
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Its funny cause it's genuinely believed that Lindelof is a ball playing CB and that's his strength. Can anyone explain to me why the midfielders come back so deep that he's passing them the ball from 15 yards. Why is he not allowed to push up into midfield then? Anyone who thinks Harry would be allowed to do what he's does for England or Leicester clearly hasn't seen us play. I 100% believe if we signed him, we'd be talking about what he can't do as he would not be allowed to do what he can.
 
ivaldo said:
It's more than just signing someone who is better at defending. It was obvious we were looking to specifically sign a ball playing centreback. Far too often we failed to properly distribute the ball from the back, and attacks broke down before they had even begun. How often did our defenders lump it forward, even when it was pretty obvious it was part of the plan? If we have a proper distributor at the back, then the midfield don't need to drop deeper to pick up the ball from the CB, and our attackers don't need to drop deeper to fill the gaps vacated by the midfield. It's not going to solve all our problems, but it will certainly help.
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See above. Has Lindelof proved he can't do that or has he not been given the chance? Yes some might say he's been poor at the other sides of his game but that's surely a different argument to changing the way we play?
 
Litch said:
Its funny cause it's genuinely believed that Lindelof is a ball playing CB and that's his strength. Can anyone explain to me why the midfielders come back so deep that he's passing them the ball from 15 yards. Why is he not allowed to push up into midfield then? Anyone who thinks Harry would be allowed to do what he's does for England or Leicester clearly hasn't seen us play. I 100% believe if we signed him, we'd be talking about what he can't do as he would not be allowed to do what he can.
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I don't. The search for a ball playing defender would suggest the coaching team don't rate Lindelofs ball playing ability at the level you do, no?

Why wouldn't he be allowed to bring the ball out? Have you not noticed Smalling bring the ball out for us on numerous occasions? It's obvious we are trying to adjust our style of play. The appointment of Carrick and McKenna, the signing of a ball carrying midfielder, and the search for a ball playing defender all point to this. Using last season as a unarguable barometer ignores that the approach of Maguire is proof we are trying to move away from exactly that.
 
Litch said:
See above. Has Lindelof proved he can't do that or has he not been given the chance? Yes some might say he's been poor at the other sides of his game but that's surely a different argument to changing the way we play?
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That's the opinion of the manager. Rightly or wrongly, Jose beleives he needs an upgrade on that player. That's all that matters.
 
ivaldo said:
I don't. The search for a ball playing defender would suggest the coaching team don't rate Lindelofs ball playing ability at the level you do, no?

Why wouldn't he be allowed to bring the ball out? Have you not noticed Smalling bring the ball out for us on numerous occasions? It's obvious we are trying to adjust our style of play. The appointment of Carrick and McKenna, the signing of a ball carrying midfielder, and the search for a ball playing defender all point to this. Using last season as a unarguable barometer ignores that the approach of Maguire is proof we are trying to move away from exactly that.
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Hold on, I've not read that we are looking for a ball playing CB, have you? Even if I believe we were, I can only say unlike most of the CB's here, when Lindelof kicks the ball it generally goes where it was intended to, and any of his long balls always look like a pass rather than a hoff. Honestly not sure why the Carrick or McKenna ref points to this at all anymore than the other assumptions you are making. Carrick retired from football and Jose lost his assistant so that's influenced the changes in coaching team. If you are going just to use the media as your barometer, we were also after the lad at Barca who went to Everton. Is he a play playing CB? Which is a true'ism cause both came from the same place?
 
ivaldo said:
That's the opinion of the manager. Rightly or wrongly, Jose beleives he needs an upgrade on that player. That's all that matters.
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Again, more bloody assumptions. Where has Jose said he needs an upgrade on Lindelof? Give me any reference.
 
Bailly -
The positive: on the ground, bringing the ball out
The negative: in the air, positionally

Smalling -
The positive: on the ground, in the air, positionally
The negative: bringing the ball out

Lindelof -
The positive: bringing the ball out
The negative: on the ground, in the air, positionally

Jones -
The positive: on the ground, in the air, positionally, bringing the ball out
The negative: always injured

Rojo -
The postive: N/A
The negative: N/A
(probably not here for the long haul)

Maguire -
The positive: on the ground, in the air, positionally, bringing the ball out
The negative: Nothing in particular. Maybe a bit lacking in pace.

The Maguire signing is not JUST about his quality. It's about the ingredients he brings to the table.

Jones is our best all round defender, but too injury prone to be relied upon. We need another all rounder (like Maguire) to fill in the gaps with his partner.

Against a pacy frontline, play Bailly and Smalling.
Against an aerially strong frontline, play Maguire and Smalling.
Against team where we'll have the majority of the possession, play Maguire and Lindelof.
Against a team with good movement, play Maguire and Smalling.

etc, etc.

Jones can fill in where necessary.

There may be other names in the PL who shine brighter than 'Maguire'. But what this signing would do is give us reliable options agianst any tactic.

What's more, he's a natural leader who can marshall the defence. Every team needs an CB who's captain material. United don't have one at the moment.

Plus, he'll help us get goals at the other end of the pitch. He can do the 'Fellaini role' at corners. It's a no brainer.
 
Litch said:
Hold on, I've not read that we are looking for a ball playing CB, have you? Even if I believe we were, I can only say unlike most of the CB's here, when Lindelof kicks the ball it generally goes where it was intended to, and any of his long balls always look like a pass rather than a hoff. Honestly not sure why the Carrick or McKenna ref points to this at all anymore than the other assumptions you are making. Carrick retired from football and Jose lost his assistant so that's influenced the changes in coaching team. If you are going just to use the media as your barometer, we were also after the lad at Barca who went to Everton. Is he a play playing CB? Which is a true'ism cause both came from the same place?
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Exactly. It didn't look like we were after a specific type of ball playing CB at all. It looked like Mourinho just wanted a new CB, that's why various names were thrown around like Mina, Godin etc.

Besides this "Mourinho needs a ball playing CB to play Attacking football" is the latest mantra that the Mourinho fanboys keep repeating everywhere to defend him. We had Daley Blind last season and Mourinho didn't even try to use him against weaker teams last season.
 
Litch said:
Again, more bloody assumptions. Where has Jose said he needs an upgrade on Lindelof? Give me any reference.
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Litch said:
Hold on, I've not read that we are looking for a ball playing CB, have you? Even if I believe we were, I can only say unlike most of the CB's here, when Lindelof kicks the ball it generally goes where it was intended to, and any of his long balls always look like a pass rather than a hoff. Honestly not sure why the Carrick or McKenna ref points to this at all anymore than the other assumptions you are making. Carrick retired from football and Jose lost his assistant so that's influenced the changes in coaching team. If you are going just to use the media as your barometer, we were also after the lad at Barca who went to Everton. Is he a play playing CB? Which is a true'ism cause both came from the same place?
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Seriously? So unless someone comes out and explicitly says "we are looking for X" then you won't consider it to be true. We aren't talking about "the media," we are talking about very credible sources, all saying the same things.

Every single defender we have been seriously linked with has been a ball playing defender. Are you saying this is coincidence? If you won't accept this then there's no point in continuing, it's not even up for debate.

Assumptions? Jose came out and said himself he's looking to change things!! It doesn't take a genius to connect those things. Are you trying to be fecetious?
 
redIndianDevil said:
Exactly. It didn't look like we were after a specific type of ball playing CB at all. It looked like Mourinho just wanted a new CB, that's why various names were thrown around like Mina, Godin etc.

Besides this "Mourinho needs a ball playing CB to play Attacking football" is the latest mantra that the Mourinho fanboys keep repeating everywhere to defend him. We had Daley Blind last season and Mourinho didn't even try to use him against weaker teams last season.
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I actually agreed with José and I never wanted him here, and have wanted him sacked for around a year so I can't be accused of being a "fanboy". He wasted Blind, but I do think we'd play better stuff with a CB who can contribute to the build-up and all the CBs I saw us linked with were what you'd class as ball playing CBs. Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Lindelof and Bailly are all awful on the ball and they really hinder said build-up. Our best CB duo came with Smalling and Blind as they complimented one another, but I don't think José ever tried them as a pair once which beggars belief.

On the flip side, even though I've wanted Maguire here for years, I could see where Ed was coming from in that José had already got 2 CBs he wanted and, after a year, feels he can't rely on either of them so why give him more money to squander. That said, if he's not going to sack him and had already, for some reason, offered him an extension, then he should've backed him.

I'm going on a tangent here but what I'm saying is I can see both POVs.
 
Litch said:
Like him a lot but when you start setting unhealthy precedents in the transfer market, it can come back and bite you in the future. Pogba price was realistic, so was Roms. Buying Harry doesn't as you are buying a good player but Id argue there are probably at least 5-6 CB in the prem better than he is so why would you be breaking or equalling the record to get him?
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ayushreddevil9 said:
I think get the best out of whatever you have and wait for a better opportunity in the next window.
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When you don't take a chance to sign the very good defender who is proven already an upgrade of what we have then it can also come back & bite you. Liverpool's defense was a joke, they know they need improvement so they stop to spend bargain on defenders like Lovren & Matip, instead they spent 75m pounds on van dijk, people think it's crazy but right now it's looking to be worth the penny. 3x clean sheets in a row for them.
 
ivaldo said:
Seriously? So unless someone comes out and explicitly says "we are looking for X" then you won't consider it to be true. We aren't talking about "the media," we are talking about very credible sources, all saying the same things.

Every single defender we have been seriously linked with has been a ball playing defender. Are you saying this is coincidence? If you won't accept this then there's no point in continue, because it's not even up for debate.

Assumptions? Jose came out and said himself he's looking to change our approach!! It doesn't take a genius to connect those things. Are you trying to be fecetious?
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Wouldn't build a whole argument about it or even suggest coaches were appointed for it. If I took that logic, how do I work out the links to all the other players then. Do like you only refer to the ones that suit my argument? It far from any logic if it's only based on what comes out of the press.....
 
Dante said:
Bailly -
The positive: on the ground, bringing the ball out
The negative: in the air, positionally

Smalling -
The positive: on the ground, in the air, positionally
The negative: bringing the ball out

Lindelof -
The positive: bringing the ball out
The negative: on the ground, in the air, positionally

Jones -
The positive: on the ground, in the air, positionally, bringing the ball out
The negative: always injured

Rojo -
The postive: N/A
The negative: N/A
(probably not here for the long haul)

Maguire -
The positive: on the ground, in the air, positionally, bringing the ball out
The negative: Nothing in particular. Maybe a bit lacking in pace.

The Maguire signing is not JUST about his quality. It's about the ingredients he brings to the table.

Jones is our best all round defender, but too injury prone to be relied upon. We need another all rounder (like Maguire) to fill in the gaps with his partner.

Against a pacy frontline, play Bailly and Smalling.
Against an aerially strong frontline, play Maguire and Smalling.
Against team where we'll have the majority of the possession, play Maguire and Lindelof.
Against a team with good movement, play Maguire and Smalling.

etc, etc.

Jones can fill in where necessary.

There may be other names in the PL who shine brighter than 'Maguire'. But what this signing would do is give us reliable options agianst any tactic.

What's more, he's a natural leader who can marshall the defence. Every team needs an CB who's captain material. United don't have one at the moment.

Plus, he'll help us get goals at the other end of the pitch. He can do the 'Fellaini role' at corners. It's a no brainer.
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Wouldnt argue about most of that but the pressure of playing in a team that is expected to win every match and who's game is forensically examined across the world is probably what even the best players that have come here struggle with. We need experienced CB that can offer what we already got here support and leadership, and the kind that can deal with the type of pressure that comes with what we have seen happen to Bailly after a bad game. It's a risk playing 75m for someone who hasn't cause I think Harry would need that type of player here too...
 
Litch said:
Wouldn't build a whole argument about it or even suggest coaches were appointed for it. If I took that logic, how do I work out the links to all the other players then. Do like you only refer to the ones that suit my argument? It far from any logic if it's only based on what comes out of the press.....
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He says he wants to change tactics. His assistant coach he's had from almost the start leaves and he appoints two coaches known for entirely different approaches to the game. The most credible sources in football link us exclusively ball playing centrebacks. The managers even come out and responds to these links without denying them. And you think it's all conjecture? There's enough there to get a bloody conviction in court!!
 
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