Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

He's been absolutely awful this season, let's be honest. A major part of why we're playing so poorly.

I cannot for the life of me see how people can argue he has been alright this season. He went on a string of games where he single-handedly caused about 10 goals against us. It's not long ago people were discussing how much we'd get for him and the average figure given was about £20 million.

He was alright yesterday, and seems to be regaining some form in recent matches, so hopefully it's just a blip and some confidence lost and he'll turn back into a decent player. If we're honest, and take off our red-tinted specs though, he has not been a good enough CB for Man Utd this season overall. Not good enough to win a PL, not good enough to justify £80m. Hopefully he turns it around.
 
His slide on the field in the rain in slow mo after his goal is a thing of beauty, I think the prem will use it for some type of montage.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
He's been absolutely awful this season, let's be honest. A major part of why we're playing so poorly.

I cannot for the life of me see how people can argue he has been alright this season. He went on a string of games where he single-handedly caused about 10 goals against us. It's not long ago people were discussing how much we'd get for him and the average figure given was about £20 million.

He was alright yesterday, and seems to be regaining some form in recent matches, so hopefully it's just a blip and some confidence lost and he'll turn back into a decent player. If we're honest, and take off our red-tinted specs though, he has not been a good enough CB for Man Utd this season overall. Not good enough to win a PL, not good enough to justify £80m. Hopefully he turns it around.
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Thats an incorrect opinion and not simply true. Yep he’s been shite but making crap up is just bizarre.
 
alexthelion said:
Rubbish!

He was one of the best CBs in the PL last season.
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Only in the second half of the season. For the first couple of months he was absolutely terrible (somewhat understandable after what happened in Greece), then he had a couple of months where he was inconsistent and bouncing between good and bad (the same as he was all his first season). He did step it up in the second half of the season though and was probably the second best central defenders in the league for that period.

If he could play at that level consistently he'd rightfully be the first name on the sheet. However he's been here for over two and a half seasons now and he's only been truly great for half a season. The rest of the time he's either been inconsistent or downright poor. I've liked the guy since his Hull days but overall he's been disappointing since joining us.
 
Reapersoul20 said:






Salahs 3rd goal in that game also -



Demiral 2-0



All four goals -



could go on, not arsed, nearly 5am :)
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Not even shocked anymore, when watching games I expect a mistake from him, with him in there I know we'll ship an average of a goal per game, so I just hope we outscore the opposition.

Tbh this has never been anything that should be called a partnership imo, they are both not United level players.
 
Reapersoul20 said:






Salahs 3rd goal in that game also -



Demiral 2-0



All four goals -



could go on, not arsed, nearly 5am :)
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The problem here is that you’ve made a daft claim that Maguire single handedly caused 10 goals. Then for some reason you’ve posted evidence that proves you completely wrong.

The first goal is Bailey losing his man, Maguire then has to cover his area and could do better but 9 out of 10 keepers would deal with that ball.

The 2nd goal against Leicester was a poor pass from DDG. Maguire is sleeping and is at fault too. The second goal against Liverpool was a collective pressing failure by most of the players in the team that pulled players out of position and left Shaw against an overload.

The Demiral goal is Shaw losing his man and not even Maguire‘s fault at all.

In none of those clips does Maguire ‘singlehandly‘ cause a goal. There are errors from other players in all of them.

Maguire was very poor in that spell in the last days of Ole no argument there. He has been a lot better under Ralf though, not top class but the defence has been a lot more stable which is reflected in the xGA stats.
 
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NewGlory said:
Do you live on a different planet or you haven't watched Maguire at all this season? How are you possibly defending him?
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I'm not defending him, but to call him trash is indeed laughable.
Solid again yesterday after a good performance V Brighton, and a starter for his national team, yet he's trash right?

Some fans!
 
Grande said:
For all the talk about bygone days, yesterday they were solid defending together, and both effective going forward. Hard to beat that as a centre back duo performance.
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Yep, if you want to be objective, you have to admit that was a quality display yesterday.
Much more like the best bits of last season.

No idea why he and Shaw have had such a poor season so far. The worst post international tournament hangover for a long while.
 
Red_toad said:
Odd how the premier league has him at a career total of 3 in the league. Maybe your opinion isn’t a fact.
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Ah Jaysus, I'm not making any crazy claims. He has been shite. He's widely accepted as having played shite.

Hopefully he improves.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The problem here is that you’ve made a daft claim that Maguire single handedly caused 10 goals. Then for some reason you’ve posted evidence that proves you completely wrong.

The first goal is Bailey losing his man, Maguire then has to cover his area and could do better but 9 out of 10 keepers would deal with that ball.

The 2nd goal against Leicester was a poor pass from DDG. Maguire is sleeping and is at fault too. The second goal against Liverpool was a collective pressing failure by most of the players in the team that pulled players out of position and left Shaw against an overload.

The Demiral goal is Shaw losing his man and not even Maguire‘s fault at all.

In none of those clips does Maguire ‘singlehandly‘ cause a goal. There are errors from other players in all of them.

Maguire was very poor in that spell in the last days of Ole no argument there. He has been a lot better under Ralf though, not top class but the defence has been a lot more stable which is reflected in the xGA stats.
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You're right, he did great in all of those goals - especially the three he directly passed to an oncoming attacker.

I will hold my tongue in all future discussions of the GOAT :).
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The problem here is that you’ve made a daft claim that Maguire single handedly caused 10 goals. Then for some reason you’ve posted evidence that proves you completely wrong.

The first goal is Bailey losing his man, Maguire then has to cover his area and could do better but 9 out of 10 keepers would deal with that ball.

The 2nd goal against Leicester was a poor pass from DDG. Maguire is sleeping and is at fault too. The second goal against Liverpool was a collective pressing failure by most of the players in the team that pulled players out of position and left Shaw against an overload.

The Demiral goal is Shaw losing his man and not even Maguire‘s fault at all.

In none of those clips does Maguire ‘singlehandly‘ cause a goal. There are errors from other players in all of them.

Maguire was very poor in that spell in the last days of Ole no argument there. He has been a lot better under Ralf though, not top class but the defence has been a lot more stable which is reflected in the xGA stats.
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Yeah but where is the fun in 'proper' analysis and understanding of the game when we can just jump on the ABU media bandwagon and scapegoat key players who cost good sums of money to create headlines?

Notice how the players criticised the most are the players who cost the most money - i.e. Pogba, Maguire, AWB etc...it's because it's more fun to say 'look how stupid United are, paying £80m for this non-perfect player and not winning every game' than picking on someone lower-profile or highlighting tactical issues with the team.

I know there are a significant percentage of people out there who think Maguire is a poor footballer - they are just objectively wrong, but there's no point arguing about it, because nobody changes their mind or demonstrates non-polarised opinions on the Internet
 
Ok folks, time to drop the agendas and look at the facts. Too many people say Lindelof is a better defender than Maguire and it just isn't true. Even in a season where Maguire had a very poor run (Liverpool, Watford and Leicester come to mind) he's still been the better of the two and the stats don't lie. But unlike certain YouTube personalities, I'm not going to just show you the stats that suit the agenda. I will show all of them

------------------AP--CS-GC--TCK--LMT--BL--INT--CL--HC--REC--DW--DL--ABW--ABL--ELG--

Maguire-----22--6---26---22------2------2---17---74--41---107---95---55-----56-----24----1
Lindelof-----17--3---27---13------0-----0-----14--66--31---107----54--38-----33-----22----0

AP=Appearances CS=Clean Sheets GC=Goals Conceded TCK=Tackles LMT=Last Man Tackles BL=Blocks INT=Interceptions CL=Clearances HC=Headed Clearances REC=Recoveries DW=Duals Won DL=Duals Lost ABW=Aerial Battles Won ABL=Aerial Battles Lost
ELG=Errors Leading To Goal

Harry Maguire Statistics | Premier League
Victor Lindelöf Statistics | Premier League

So many people have talked about how much better Lindelof is than Maguire. The stats prove that isn't true. But forget about the stats. Let's look at how we played without Maguire during the month of January. Oh that's right, during that time De Gea had to make more saves than any keeper in the league and ended up getting the EPL player of the month while playing EPL heavyweights WOlves, Villa, Brentford and West Ham. In fact, the only game De Gea didn't have to save us was against West Ham (the best team we played) and this also happened to be the only game in January that Maguire played 90 minutes. But go on...keep scapegoating Maguire and keep holding his price tag (which he had nothing to do with) against him...
 
Champ said:
I'm not defending him, but to call him trash is indeed laughable.
Solid again yesterday after a good performance V Brighton, and a starter for his national team, yet he's trash right?

Some fans!
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Exactly.

Also you know the funniest thing about this, the same fans who say this will also say.. "Pogba is quality, look at him for France and look what he does with better players and manager"

yet using the National team argument with Maguire is different.
 
Red_toad said:
You’re making claims that are not true. You didn’t say he had been in bad form.
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I believe he is at fault for those goals, and several more goals.

You have a different opinion.

Watching football is about opinions.

No need to hurl OTT insults around for having a perfectly reasonable opinion.

We are on the same team.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
I believe he is at fault for those goals, and several more goals.

You have a different opinion.

Watching football is about opinions.

No need to hurl OTT insults around for having a perfectly reasonable opinion.

We are on the same team.
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Oh ok so I insulted you. I think you have a penchant for making things up that never happened.
 
JB7 said:
Yeah agenda, if you've watched us this season and think all our on-field problems are down to one player then I hate to break it to you but you're either completely insane or have an agenda.

So just to be clear that I'm understanding your post, your issue is that you hate to see us lose so much that you never want Maguire to play for us again. Even though that would mean we field a central defensive pairing that was statistically considerably worse and also stylistically not best suited to playing together? Talk me through the logic behind that one because that doesn't sound like someone who's main interest is Manchester United winning football matches it sounds like someone who wants rid of Harry Maguire regardless of the consequences, which brings me back to that little 6 letter word beginning with A.
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Two games is not "statistically" anything. Phil Jones played one game and he was fantastic. He must be our best CB. My God! If you cannot see how horrible Maguire has been this season - why are you even watching football?
 
Valencia's Left Foot said:
Yep, and Harry was easily one of the best CBs in the Euros last summer.
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This is so annoying. Yes he was good at the euros but he

1) plays in a back five - Manchester United plays a back four
2) had one of the fastest players (Walker) next to him to make up for Maguire his lack of speed/acceleration - doesnt have that at Manchester United
3) has two midfielders protecting him for England - doesnt have that for Manchester United, just one very average one (McT)

That he did well for England at the Euros doenst mean that he will be able to be just as good for Manchester United. Also, why dont i ever see the same argument for Pogba? Pogba is good for France, nobody ever uses that to say that he must be good enough for Manchester United. Usually the opposite even, continental football is slower and opponents are not as good as the opponents in the Premier League.

Im here to say that Maguire isnt good enough to be a Manchester United player, in normal form he is fine but the whole 'he was good at the Euros' really doesnt mean anything in relation to his Manchester United career.
 
Stadjer said:
This is so annoying. Yes he was good at the euros but he

1) plays in a back five - Manchester United plays a back four
2) had one of the fastest players (Walker) next to him to make up for Maguire his lack of speed/acceleration - doesnt have that at Manchester United
3) has two midfielders protecting him for England - doesnt have that for Manchester United, just one very average one (McT)

That he did well for England at the Euros doenst mean that he will be able to be just as good for Manchester United. Also, why dont i ever see the same argument for Pogba? Pogba is good for France, nobody ever uses that to say that he must be good enough for Manchester United. Usually the opposite even, continental football is slower and opponents are not as good as the opponents in the Premier League.

Im here to say that Maguire isnt good enough to be a Manchester United player, in normal form he is fine but the whole 'he was good at the Euros' really doesnt mean anything in relation to his Manchester United career.
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England played with a back four. They played with a back five at the World Cup 2018 but after that it’s been nearly always in a back 4. Walker was next to Stones. Shaw was next to Maguire. England didn’t play with two holding midfielders. Phillips plays box to box for England and presses high up the pitch.

To meet you halfway. Having Walker, Philips and Rice does help him more than the players we have. Pickford will also come off his line more than DDG.
 
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Stadjer said:
This is so annoying. Yes he was good at the euros but he

1) plays in a back five - Manchester United plays a back four
2) had one of the fastest players (Walker) next to him to make up for Maguire his lack of speed/acceleration - doesnt have that at Manchester United
3) has two midfielders protecting him for England - doesnt have that for Manchester United, just one very average one (McT)

That he did well for England at the Euros doenst mean that he will be able to be just as good for Manchester United. Also, why dont i ever see the same argument for Pogba? Pogba is good for France, nobody ever uses that to say that he must be good enough for Manchester United. Usually the opposite even, continental football is slower and opponents are not as good as the opponents in the Premier League.

Im here to say that Maguire isnt good enough to be a Manchester United player, in normal form he is fine but the whole 'he was good at the Euros' really doesnt mean anything in relation to his Manchester United career.
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You're right, he does get more protection for England just like players like Dias for Portugal get less than they do at their clubs and look nowhere near as good.

Theres more to defending than names in the back 4. The fact is we a needed a DM more than any CB last summer and even that wouldn't make up for the sheer lack of workrate elsewhere.
 
Red_toad said:
Thats an incorrect opinion and not simply true. Yep he’s been shite but making crap up is just bizarre.
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If it's Maguire you're in about it's not inaccurate at all. He cost us 3 of 4 goals against Leicester and then the next week was at fault for all 5 of Liverpool's goals and should have been sent off. That was genuinely the worst performance I've seen from a premiership footballer. In between was at least one amatuer error in the CL as well.

Only a week or so ago against Southampton he was responsible for probably the worst bit of defending ever witnessed. This is the problem with Maguire. When he's on form he's pretty good but when he isn't he's so bad it's near impossible to win a game. That just doesn't cut it if you want to win trophies and he's had over 2 years to sort it out now. He's in the last chance saloon you would think.

Lindelof is a flawed defender because he lets players bully him. All well and good saying it's not about physicality, but I'm afraid for a CB in the premier league, it kind of is.

Varane is a level above either from what I've seen. I'm not sure what this place is on sometimes. We just conceded two joke goals to a team who were never even in the game and people think this was an example of us defending well?
 
noodlehair said:
If it's Maguire you're in about it's not inaccurate at all. He cost us 3 of 4 goals against Leicester and then the next week was at fault for all 5 of Liverpool's goals and should have been sent off. That was genuinely the worst performance I've seen from a premiership footballer. In between was at least one amatuer error in the CL as well.

Only a week or so ago against Southampton he was responsible for probably the worst bit of defending ever witnessed. This is the problem with Maguire. When he's on form he's pretty good but when he isn't he's so bad it's near impossible to win a game. That just doesn't cut it if you want to win trophies and he's had over 2 years to sort it out now. He's in the last chance saloon you would think.

Lindelof is a flawed defender because he lets players bully him. All well and good saying it's not about physicality, but I'm afraid for a CB in the premier league, it kind of is.

Varane is a level above either from what I've seen. I'm not sure what this place is on sometimes. We just conceded two joke goals to a team who were never even in the game and people think this was an example of us defending well?
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Are you seriously saying that those two goals had anything to do with Lindelöf or Maguire’s quality of defending?
 
NewGlory said:
Two games is not "statistically" anything. Phil Jones played one game and he was fantastic. He must be our best CB. My God! If you cannot see how horrible Maguire has been this season - why are you even watching football?
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You keep ignoring the fact I've said Maguire's had a terrible season on several occasions and pretending I'm saying he's the second coming. He isn't. You also keep ignoring the statistics that show we are a comfortably better team with him in it and have been whenever he has dropped out of the team throughout the time he has been at the football club. You also carried on your shite of stating he has been singlehandedly responsibly for our bad season. You then went on to say that he's barely even good enough for Championship teams which once again, shows just how clueless you are about football and the levels within it. Has he been good? No. Are we a better defensive unit with him in the team? Yes and frankly it's not even up to for debate.
 
noodlehair said:
He cost us 3 of 4 goals against Leicester and then the next week was at fault for all 5 of Liverpool's goals and should have been sent off.
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So was De Gea tbf and yet people still cream themselves about him supposedly having a wonderful season.

BTW it was Luke Shaw AWOL for all 5 of the Liverpool goals, not Maguire.

Grande said:
Are you seriously saying that those two goals had anything to do with Lindelöf or Maguire’s quality of defending?
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Yes. Everything is always Maguire's fault. Surely you've realised that by now?
 
Stadjer said:
This is so annoying. Yes he was good at the euros but he

1) plays in a back five - Manchester United plays a back four
2) had one of the fastest players (Walker) next to him to make up for Maguire his lack of speed/acceleration - doesnt have that at Manchester United
3) has two midfielders protecting him for England - doesnt have that for Manchester United, just one very average one (McT)

That he did well for England at the Euros doenst mean that he will be able to be just as good for Manchester United. Also, why dont i ever see the same argument for Pogba? Pogba is good for France, nobody ever uses that to say that he must be good enough for Manchester United. Usually the opposite even, continental football is slower and opponents are not as good as the opponents in the Premier League.

Im here to say that Maguire isnt good enough to be a Manchester United player, in normal form he is fine but the whole 'he was good at the Euros' really doesnt mean anything in relation to his Manchester United career.
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If anything the biggest difference is whats behind him not infront of him.

England mostly play a back 4 occansionaly a back 5 not unlike United in the last couple of seasons.
England normally employ a double pivot infront again not unlike United in the last couple of season, only recently under RR have we seen the regular use of just the single pivot.

The biggest difference he dosent have a timid goalkeeper who won't sweep, won't claim high balls and has woeful distribution behind.

No coincidence that Maguires best spell for us happened at a time when de gea had lost the number 1 spot either.
 
Longshanks said:
If anything the biggest difference is whats behind him not infront of him.

England mostly play a back 4 occansionaly a back 5 not unlike United in the last couple of seasons.
England normally employ a double pivot infront again not unlike United in the last couple of season, only recently under RR have we seen the regular use of just the single pivot.

The biggest difference he dosent have a timid goalkeeper who won't sweep, won't claim high balls and has woeful distribution behind.

No coincidence that Maguires best spell for us happened at a time when de gea had lost the number 1 spot either.
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Round of applause for that man (or woman). Cannot believe more people don't see this.
 
Longshanks said:
If anything the biggest difference is whats behind him not infront of him.

England mostly play a back 4 occansionaly a back 5 not unlike United in the last couple of seasons.
England normally employ a double pivot infront again not unlike United in the last couple of season, only recently under RR have we seen the regular use of just the single pivot.

The biggest difference he dosent have a timid goalkeeper who won't sweep, won't claim high balls and has woeful distribution behind.

No coincidence that Maguires best spell for us happened at a time when de gea had lost the number 1 spot either.
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Ridiculous post. How the hell can you blame all basic errors on de Gea? Situations that are way up field and you blame it on the goalkeeper? Misplaced passes, stupid tackles, fumbles, sleeping, wrestling, slow reactions, you put it on the guy behind him, that’s just too strange man. What best spell, and how many games were there with Henderson in goal. Not many.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
I believe he is at fault for those goals, and several more goals.

You have a different opinion.

Watching football is about opinions.

No need to hurl OTT insults around for having a perfectly reasonable opinion.

We are on the same team.
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But is it, though?
 
Longshanks said:
If anything the biggest difference is whats behind him not infront of him.

England mostly play a back 4 occansionaly a back 5 not unlike United in the last couple of seasons.
England normally employ a double pivot infront again not unlike United in the last couple of season, only recently under RR have we seen the regular use of just the single pivot.

The biggest difference he dosent have a timid goalkeeper who won't sweep, won't claim high balls and has woeful distribution behind.

No coincidence that Maguires best spell for us happened at a time when de gea had lost the number 1 spot either.
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Well said.
 
James Peril said:
Ridiculous post. How the hell can you blame all basic errors on de Gea? Situations that are way up field and you blame it on the goalkeeper? Misplaced passes, stupid tackles, fumbles, sleeping, wrestling, slow reactions, you put it on the guy behind him, that’s just too strange man. What best spell, and how many games were there with Henderson in goal. Not many.
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Where in my post did I blame all basic errors on de gea? Maguires has made too many mistakes this season there is no secret in that. But do you have any idea what a relief it is as a CB to have your GK willing to come and claim high balls and end attacks to give you a breather or willing to sweep so you don't have to turn and chase everything or even having a goalkeeper you can feel confident in playing back to and won't play a hospital pass somewhere putting you right back under pressure.

Playing with de gea gives you non of that, you know every ball in the box you will have to deal with, every through ball your chasing and play the ball back? Poor kick to nowhere putting you back under pressure. That all leads to extra fatigue both mental and physical and of course you come under pressure more. Guess what the combination of extra fatigue plus extra pressure causes? Mistakes.
 
Maguire had a good game against Leeds, but overall he had a terrible season. It's obvious that he's a good defender, but he's one of those players that crumble under pressure, and if he gains a bit of confidence he can put a good run. If the team overall starts playing good on a consistent level, you'd probably see a more consistent and confident version of him, but if we're being honest, he's mentally very weak and we need players who can do better. Shaw is the same by the way.

I'm not of the opinion that his partnership with Lindelof is better than with Varane, the simple fact is that Lindelof has been really good this season whenever called upon and while playing with anyone. If the 3 of them are doing well and competing to start, great, it's a good problem to have in this shitty season.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
England played with a back four. They played with a back five at the World Cup 2018 but after that it’s been nearly always in a back 4. Walker was next to Stones. Shaw was next to Maguire. England didn’t play with two holding midfielders. Phillips plays box to box for England and presses high up the pitch.

To meet you halfway. Having Walker, Philips and Rice does help him more than the players we have. Pickford will also come off his line more than DDG.
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A back five against Italy in the Euros final. When England has to play an good opponent with a dangerous attacking force (back five against Germany too for example) ive seen them play with a back five. I do admit i dont watch them outside of the Euros or the World Cup. Their Euros final is the backline i think of when i think of the England back line. Shaw - Stones - Maguire - Walker - Trippier/Trent/James. Looking at recent England games against Albania and Hungary they did play with a back four but those are some of the easieast games possible.

I still stand by that Maguire his good England performances (against not the best opponents) shouldnt be used as a arguement to say that he is a really good player. He had some good games/period of games for Manchester United but all things considered he has been average since joining.
 
Stadjer said:
A back five against Italy in the Euros final. When England has to play an good opponent with a dangerous attacking force (back five against Germany too for example) ive seen them play with a back five. I do admit i dont watch them outside of the Euros or the World Cup. Their Euros final is the backline i think of when i think of the England back line. Shaw - Stones - Maguire - Walker - Trippier/Trent/James. Looking at recent England games against Albania and Hungary they did play with a back four but those are some of the easieast games possible.

I still stand by that Maguire his good England performances (against not the best opponents) shouldnt be used as a arguement to say that he is a really good player. He had some good games/period of games for Manchester United but all things considered he has been average since joining.
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Not true. After the World Cup in 2018 we played a back 4 in the Nations League where we won the group with Spain and Croatia, lost to Holland in the semis and beat Switzerland in the third place game. Maguire played every game. Southgate doesn't adjust the team to suit Maguire nor do we play with a deep defence. Maguire might be part of the consideration sometimes. We actually played a back 5 against San Marino and Albania in the recent games. This is because we had James and Chilwell in amazing form for Chelsea playing in a back 5. Tuchel was getting Chilwell into centre forward positions at times so it was an attacking setup. This is something Southgate does. He sets England up in formations that the players are excelling in at club level, borrowing tactical ideas from the top coaches.
 
Sandikan said:
Yep, if you want to be objective, you have to admit that was a quality display yesterday.
Much more like the best bits of last season.

No idea why he and Shaw have had such a poor season so far. The worst post international tournament hangover for a long while.
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Both were straight into my FPL. I was certain they would continue their form. How wrong I was. Good players who looked unfit (and unmotivated!) for far too long this season
 
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