I want to turn us into Liverpool. And by the way your 'facts' on Chelsea are wrong over the last 7 years...LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
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I want to turn us into Liverpool. And by the way your 'facts' on Chelsea are wrong over the last 7 years...Fa cups,champions league, Europa league don't count then?
I'm struggling to see how this is the case. Not all managers stay at clubs for a long time; that's a fact of life, and it's okay. You can appoint a manager, have a couple of years of success, and then move onto the next one if that manager decides that he wants to leave. It's the same with players. We bought RVP, and he only stayed for three years. He was instrumental in our 2012/13 success...but that doesn't mean we were somehow selling our soul by buying him, does it?
Guardiola stayed at Barca for four years. Were they selling their soul by appointing him? Or what about Enrique if he calls it a day at the end of the season? You could even apply it to Guardiola at Bayern, a relatively short-term appointment who has gotten them success.
all this bullshit about 1: "short term success" and 2: "being another chelsea" if we pick jose is better than LVG which = sort term failure and being another liverpool. it's not like LVG did it (put us 6th/7th) on a shoestring budget or has us playing winning football.
Listen with every passing day I'm getting closer to your view. My vote above was evaluate at the end of the season, I haven't changed it. Yet. The reason I voted that way was because I believe the club are trying to build something from within. I might be wrong. But I'm prepared to stick with them. For now.
We are currently in relegation form so stick by lvg and we might see league one sooner than we think
They could just be playing for themselves?
Being held to ransom by all our sponsors certainly becomes a factor, but personally I wouldn't mind suffering some bleak seasons if it lead to long tern success.
Completely agree with you bud but if pep isn't available Mourinho is the next best option without a doubt.
Of course we won't. I was joking, and I'd have thought the tone of the post made the clear. My point was that it's ridiculous to turn down the possibility of short-term success under a manager because he'll only stay for a couple of years.
Granted, there's no guarantee he will be successful, and I can completely understand why some (myself included to an extent) don't want him at the club. But if we're going to reject good managers because they don't intend to stay here for a long time then the list of candidates will get very, very short.
Well we really took the Europa league seriously when we were in it didn't we?And why is 7 the magic number? If you want to go back 8 years we've 5 PLs and 1 CL to their 2 and 1. Anyway, not to worry as I said I get it. You want the club to model itself on Chelsea. I don't.
Indeed. We lost that in 2005.
I never mentioned facts, I said compare what we have one to Chelsea in the same period, they've won cl,lc,fa cup, Europa league and the league, it's hardly causing them problems winning things is it.
I agree with the first half of that sentence, we should never reject a manager on that basis. But probably where you and I will differ is I believe if that manager works out he would want to be here for a very long time. And I'm sure there is a very very long list of potential candidates who fall into that category. Who knows, maybe Mourinho genuinely wants an extended stay at his next club. He did talk about that at Chelsea. It would be great if United was the club he managed into another dynasty. Somehow I don't see Pep staying anywhere for very long. Which is fine, he's perfect for City. The new money.
Like everyone else, the problem is that most of us don't think that it's leading to success. Our current bad form is really bad but it's fixable, the problem is that our current bad form was predictable and if it was predictable it means that the plan wasn't good, if the plan isn't good after 18 months into the 36 given to LVG then we have to ask ourselves if we shouldn't change the plan.
The answer might be to stick with it but it could also be to change it asap.
I don't want to turn us into Chelsea at all I want us to win things and if that means pep/Jose for 3 years yes I'd take it, if we do what you suggest we will turn into Liverpool which I wouldn't be happy with but you seem to be ok with.
Why are you ignoring everything else Chelsea have won, oh yeah because it goes along with your nonsensical argument.
We've not been that United since Ronnie left by the way.
And we did take the Europa league seriously but we got destroyed in it, what kind of argument is that.
Between Pep and Jose, I'd agree that it's way more likely that Jose would stay if he met with success. Pep somehow seems to develop an itch to move... and has always had an annual circus around the "will he, won't he" when it comes to contract extensions.
They've won what they have won because they have a limitless transfer budget, have gazumped not just us but the rest of the league on every transfer target for years, are fiddling the financial fair play rules and generally been up to their neck in financial doping. For most of that time we've either kept pace with them or dominated the league. Since Mourinho left first time around they've sacked manager after manager, often to the disgust of their own fans and during that period won the league once under Ancelloti (who was sacked) and somehow managed to fluke a CL under Di Matteo (who was also sacked). During that time they've also managed to sack Scolari and Villas Boas for what can only be described as a footballing implosions. Thats what Chelsea's 'rotation' policy has given them. Their last sacking has seen a meltdown amongst their supporters and their own squad being shown up for the bunch of mercenaries that they are; is that really what United should measure themselves against? I think not.
According to rory that's a good base for future success though Gb, you must be wrong lol.
I read the 70s - UNited United - kindle version, free pages, this morning. It's a bit ingratiating but again the loyal opposition rather than the rowdy rabble kind of writing. Not my cup o' tea. I wouldn't buy it but for a writer who opposes foreign online fans his e-books are marketed in the USA.
Post that again and I'll, I'll......I'll send you a very strongly worded PM.
I can see Ed sticking with LVG till the end of the season, and then there'll obviously be an evaluation whether the team performances over the last year have improved.
Even if we manage to limp into the top four, that won't be enough to satisfy the United board, and with one year left on his contract, I'm sure VG will be let go. Getting rid of him now makes it appear that Ed, and United as a club, don't know what they're doing.
Yeah. That's what I said
. According to you we should me more like Chelsea. Lets see where that takes you.At this moment I'd happily take any 'short term success' as should any United fan. He would maybe even stay at United, it's a job he always wanted and he is going to have to stay at 1 team for a consistent time period as he cannot continue this club hopping he has done the last few years. I genuinely believe the football cannot be any worse then the turgid crap we have seen for 12 months, In fact I think you would be hard pressed to beat that by anyone.
Not sure how this may lead to success. I believed this and said it several times earlier this season, but then I believed that LvG sold older players because he was going to bring the youth and newer players through and that would bode well for the future. Instead, Pereira, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Varela and co. have been criminally under-utilized or misused. Add to that having to see Fellaini continue to play as a pseudo-striker (he'll never be a striker) or as a midfielder (over Morgan and Herrera?) and all the hope I had is dead. Rooney continues to play as a striker with Martial decaying on the wings. Carrick and Schweini were trusted against Arsenal when Schneiderlin should have played. Lingard was only brought in when we had no other option. Pereira has always looked good when playing, but somehow seems to get no time now. This is not building for the future. Apart from defence - where LvG has been lucky that Smalling has had a transformation and DdG has stayed - we've not got the team into any kind of shape that shows promise.
Also, 18 months in and we're regressing. It's not even like LvG is a long-term option. He's going for certain after 18 months regardless of what happens from here on. All the articles have us believe that Giggs will be different anyway. So, what exactly are we building with LvG? I've changed my stance over the last 2 months. Till then, I believed (maybe it was hope?) that he was building a solid foundation and it was only a matter of time before we regularly saw Herrera, Pereira and Martial up top with Schneiderlin first-choice etc. etc. Now, well, I'm sorry, but I was wrong :-(.
This has disappointed me too.
Right now, standing by while the team's form makes the table look like quicksand also makes it look like the club and Board don't know what they're doing. I've never been a supporter of mid-season sacking, but at times that's the trick to reignite the season. Getting in a new manager before the transfer window opens could actually be a blessing and just the kick-start this campaign needs...
But you said it wasn't a good base to win trophies if you change manager every 3 years, which is nonsense given the proof, we've got a near limitless transfer fund unfortunately we haven't spent it wisely including while Ferguson was still here and we've missed out on players because we have stupid out of date ideas, yeah don't get Hazard because of a 5m payment to his agent lets waste it on Bebe or obertan or buttner whose previous clubs supporters couldn't believe we bought them, no value out there lmfao!
We need and some of our fans need to realise Ferguson was a one off and we need to see that football has moved on, do you really think other clubs want to give agents the money, of course they don't but they realise they won't get the player if they don't and it's a small figure in the grand scheme of things.
Unfortunately our board and some of our fans are still living in the past including you, ttyl.
The problem is that if you look at the table, even if United mirrors Arsenal first half of the season, they will have less points than last season, United will need 12 wins, 4 Draws and 3 loses just to match last season record. So from now on the evaluation of his season can only be done with the quality of our performances.
I'm so firmly against him that I uninstalled AVG from my laptop but I still think it's easily possible we'll win 3 on the spin against a struggling Swansea side with no manager, a villa side who are practically relegated and a side from the lower leagues in the cup.
I'm sure that's what the club are hoping for and that it'll shut a few mouths and we'll go back to the winning while playing poorly is a "Sign of Champions". I'm done with all that, he's had more than enough time and financial support to build something resembling a style by now.
I just wonder whether the players have been told that 'player power' won't succeed - that it won't be a case like when Chelsea reluctantly got rid of AVB (i.e. when Abramovich told the players that they were guilty of deliberately undermining AVB).
The problem would be that if we brought someone else in, and it failed miserably, we'd be in an even worse situation. We'd just looks as desperate as City, Chelsea, and Liverpool.
Why do you care what we look like?
And if you do, why don't you care that we look like we're run by a bunch of incompetents who are unwilling to address the fact we're in relegation form.
I asked for examples of clubs who have 'rotated' managers to deliver success, specifically in England. The only example is Chelsea who, in fact, have sacked manager after manager.
Outside England we have some recent examples of clubs who have 'policy' of rotation but even that is debatable; I'm sure Barca would love Pep to still be there for example.
This whole conversation stems from an earlier post where someone said 'modern clubs' have rotate managers every three years. That's complete nonsense in my view; I would say 99% of managerial 'rotations' are as a result of failure. Just like our 'rotation' 18 months ago.
If we find a winning formula the club should do all it can to make that formula work for the long term, that's my view. To somehow suggest we have a policy of changing managers after every 3 years is ridiculous.
Right. So how does such a top red square things with the day-trippers and out-of-towners that flock to Old Trafford for home games? Does buying a package from a travel agent once a year set you aside from the common herd who follow the team from afar?
Mitten has made a decent living out of United. You could say it was a parasitic one but that would be unkind. Loyal opposition indeed. He isn't going to bite the hand that feeds him.
Testing testing 123...top red
Has the phrase T.. R.. been censored on here? Since when?
Has the phrase T.. R.. been censored on here? Since when?
FFS, Rory no one disagree with you!!!
Do you not realise how ridiculous this logic is? The only reason its not true in England is because we won almost everything going under Ferguson. The only other clubs that have won anything, really, in recent times are Chelsea and City. One who as, you admit, fit this so called 'model' and the other who under the Sheikh have had three managers, one who lasted one year, the other who lasted four, and the other who is about to be replaced after three years with a manager who has never lasted more than three years at any club he's worked at.
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