LVG Out Thread | BBC: Sacked!

[spwd]

Hardly grounds to sack a manager.
There are too many 90s and 2000s united fans in this forum who are too impatient.

Perhaps not on its own or at say Bournemouth but we're Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in world football and along with everything else he's doing or done wrong he should have been out at least a month ago.

 

[Garethw]

If that turns out to be the case then there's no point in appointing Ryan anyway (if he needs such extreme guidance - hand-holding, really - and if others are superior in talent to him). Even if we're truly going the way of politics (i.e. having a PR-constructed frontman as the club's focus while others do the real work), then that model fails too, because Giggs' reputation has suffered so badly in recent times. Added to that, even United fans are wary of Ryan being manager, so it's not even a populist notion. Unless he has such incredible managerial potential that the board can't resist making him boss, it's difficult to understand the board's motive, seeing as "Giggs as manager" seems to fail as a good idea in virtually every aspect.

I totally agree mate.

 

[Cassidy]

Hardly grounds to sack a manager.
There are too many 90s and 2000s united fans in this forum who are too impatient.

Poch went to spurs at the same time and has implemented LVG philosophy quicker having spent far less money. I'm all for managers being given time, but not when there is 0 progression. We are worse than last season.

 

[Garethw]

I don't mind Butt actually. However along with Giggs you could call them The Lack of Brains Trust.

Butt has been doing good stuff with the young lads for sure. I just think that if the club has its heart set on appointing Giggs as the new manager then he's going to need some heavily experienced assistants to support such a rookie manager.

 

[JPRouve]

I seriously cannot fathom how he is still in employment after not winning in eight successive matches.

The eight games aren't a strong reason to sack him, if the club believes that he can improve the team in the next 6 months then they are right to stick with him, but if they are sticking with him because we are not a sacking club or because they are afraid of making a bad appointment then they are wrong.

 

[spwd]

There's not one top club he would not have been sacked from given the same results/playing style/money spent/bullsh1t philosophy absolutely none, and we have the means to get ourselves out of the situation but for no rational reason we don't seem to want to.

 

[Red Dreams]

talk is strong Fergie will be the interim manager.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

How many winless games in a row would it take for you to want him gone then?

It's not about results alone. What shows how good a manager is, is how he copes under the kind of pressure he's under right now. If he comes out of this nightmare, and the team click, it will show just how good a manager he is.
If he can't pull things round, the club will let him go.

 

[spwd]

talk is strong Fergie will be the interim manager.

.?

 

[Cassidy]

It's not about results alone. What shows how good a manager is, is how he copes under the kind of pressure he's under right now. If he comes out of this nightmare, and the team click, it will show just how good a manager he is.
If he can't pull things round, the club will let him go.

He pretty much resigned live on TV

 

[Rory 7]

You are the only one believing that it's theory. In reality there is no theory, managers are good enough or they are not, if they are successful they will stay, if they are not they will be sacked. The only exception is Real Madrid, they have their own definition of success.
Time has never been a recipe for success and sacking too.

Well Arsenal clearly defined success as qualification for the CL while they built their new stadium; by their definition of success Wenger was the perfect manager. You're right Real have their own rules, rules that have been facilitated by corruption in local Madrid politics. So who are these clubs that have constantly rotated managers every three years successfully? Bayern in a league they have always dominated. Barca in a similar league. After that I don't see too many. In fact the sugar daddy clubs in England have yet to dominate our league despite managerial rotation; Fergie saw off Mourinhos Chelsea and Mancini's City. I believe as a club we are big enough to aspire to build in the model that has served us so well. We really don't need to turn into Inter Milan.

 

[spwd]

It's not about results alone. What shows how good a manager is, is how he copes under the kind of pressure he's under right now. If he comes out of this nightmare, and the team click, it will show just how good a manager he is.
If he can't pull things round, the club will let him go.

But by that time the season will be another failed one and there will be nobody good enough to take over, it's ridiculous that we seem to not have learned anything from the Moyes episode.

 

[Xaviesta]

talk is strong Fergie will be the interim manager.

United has to prove they can be successful without him.

 

[Ixion]

It would be amazing to see Sir Alex back...but no one should ever go back to a club. It rarely works out and his legacy doesn't need to be tarnished.

 

[JPRouve]

Well Arsenal clearly defined success as qualification for the CL while they built their new stadium; by their definition of success Wenger was the perfect manager. You're right Real have their own rules, rules that have been facilitated by corruption in local Madrid politics. So who are these clubs that have constantly rotated managers every three years successfully? Bayern in a league they have always dominated. Barca in a similar league. After that I don't see too many. In fact the sugar daddy clubs in England have yet to dominate our league despite managerial rotation; Fergie saw off Mourinhos Chelsea and Mancini's City. I believe as a club we are big enough to aspire to build in the model that has served us so well. We really don't need to turn into Inter Milan.

Pretty much every other clubs have reached their goals while changing managers every 3 to 5 years. And I'm not telling you that you have to sack a manager but that you can.

 

[spwd]

It would be an absolute miracle if someone like fergie happened ever again, that was our plan with Moyes and look what happened there, it just doesn't happen anymore, wenger is the last one and he's basically not won anything for 9/10 years so can't be compared anyway.

 

[Rory 7]

Pretty much every other clubs have reached their goals while changing managers every 3 to 5 years.

Pretty much every other club sacks their manager after two years for not achieving their goals. That's why the bookies have a sack race.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

But by that time the season will be another failed one and there will be nobody good enough to take over, it's ridiculous that we seem to not have learned anything from the Moyes episode.

You can't say that. It maybe that long term he could really turn things around, but maybe for the owners, long term is not good enough. LVG is no Moyes. His list of achievements tell you that. Bringing in Mourinho would mean we haven't learned anything, as he's just a showman.

 

[JPRouve]

Pretty much every other club sacks their manager after two years for not achieving their goals. That's why the bookies have a sack race.

Obviouvsly they are, the number of top quality managers is limited, most of them are totally unable to reach or sustain success. There are more big teams than big managers.

 

[Rory 7]

Obviouvsly they are, the number of top quality managers is limited, most of them are totally unable to reach or sustain success. There are more big teams than big managers.

So aside from Bayern and Barca, who are these mystery clubs that have achieved sustained success by rotating their manager every three years?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

He pretty much resigned live on TV

He stated that resigning was an option if he thought he could not turn it around. Some people would stick it out for a payoff, but VG is too much of an honest person for that. I really think he sees this situation as the most difficult of his career.

 

[Cassidy]

He stated that resigning was an option if he thought he could not turn it around. Some people would stick it out for a payoff, but VG is too much of an honest person for that. I really think he sees this situation as the most difficult of his career.

It is

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

You can't say that. It maybe that long term he could really turn things around, but maybe for the owners, long term is not good enough. LVG is no Moyes. His list of achievements tell you that. Bringing in Mourinho would mean we haven't learned anything, as he's just a showman.

Wut? Jose is a proven winner in the Premier League, Like the guy or not he will bring trophies to this club which is what we desperately now need. We have persevered with 'The United Way' since Fergie went and all it has done is bite us in the arse. We need to bring in the proven winner and get us back to the Top of world football where we belong. I seriously do not understand why some people on here do not seemingly want that. Sticking with LVG will go the same way as Moyes, if it hasn't gone full sail already. It's not good enough and I can't believe that alot of our fans expectations have been lowered so much in such a short amount of time.

 

[Xaviesta]

So aside from Bayern and Barca, who are these mystery clubs that have achieved sustained success by rotating their manager every three years?

Chelsea has won four league titles, four FA Cups, three League Cups, one Champions League and the Europa League having changed managers frequently.

 

[Rory 7]

He stated that resigning was an option if he thought he could not turn it around. Some people would stick it out for a payoff, but VG is too much of an honest person for that. I really think he sees this situation as the most difficult of his career.

It is. He's managing the biggest club in the biggest league in the world. He knows he has to turn it around and pronto.

 

[Rory 7]

Chelsea has won four league titles, four FA Cups, three League Cups, one Champions League and the Europa League having changed managers frequently.

All bought. All of them. So you want us to become Chelsea then, fair enough.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

It is

What struck me, though, was how up for it we were against Chelsea. All this talk about how VG has lost the dressing room is nonsense. They looked 100% up for it.

 

[SteveJ]

I don't believe that the players are trying extra-hard to keep LVG in the job - even when they've commented publicly on his situation there's scant real praise or support for the manager. I wonder if there's something important & revealing, beyond the usual platitudes, in what Chris Smalling said recently: "We're all playing for our United futures."

 

[Cheesy]

Well Arsenal clearly defined success as qualification for the CL while they built their new stadium; by their definition of success Wenger was the perfect manager. You're right Real have their own rules, rules that have been facilitated by corruption in local Madrid politics. So who are these clubs that have constantly rotated managers every three years successfully? Bayern in a league they have always dominated. Barca in a similar league. After that I don't see too many. In fact the sugar daddy clubs in England have yet to dominate our league despite managerial rotation; Fergie saw off Mourinhos Chelsea and Mancini's City. I believe as a club we are big enough to aspire to build in the model that has served us so well. We really don't need to turn into Inter Milan.

The problem is though that even if a manager is successful, you can't guarantee longevity. Look at Guardiola. Someone who had played for Barca, became an incredibly successful manager after implementing his own style, and appeared to be ingrained within the club. He still left after only four years, and felt it was time to move on.

Any potential long-term manager of ours could end up doing that. Pretty much no top club manages to retain managers for decades nowadays, unfortunately, and it'd probably be quite arrogant of us to assume it's just going to work for us.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

What struck me, though, was how up for it we were against Chelsea. All this talk about how VG has lost the dressing room is nonsense. They looked 100% up for it.

Yeah because Van Gaal took the shackles off, He knew another defeat and he was gone so he let them have the footballing freedom. You just watch in 2-3 weeks when the shackles are back on and we create 2 chances per game, and trust me it will happen.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

All bought. All of them. So you want us to become Chelsea then, fair enough.

Better than spending hundreds of millions with nothing to show for it.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Wut? Jose is a proven winner in the Premier League, Like the guy or not he will bring trophies to this club which is what we desperately now need. We have persevered with 'The United Way' since Fergie went and all it has done is bite us in the arse. We need to bring in the proven winner and get us back to the Top of world football where we belong. I seriously do not understand why some people on here do not seemingly want that. Sticking with LVG will go the same way as Moyes, if it hasn't gone full sail already. It's not good enough and I can't believe that alot of our fans expectations have been lowered so much in such a short amount of time.

He brings instant short term success, the tactics are anti football, and he is the most self absorbed egocentric guy in football.

 

[golden_blunder]

You can't say that. It maybe that long term he could really turn things around, but maybe for the owners, long term is not good enough. LVG is no Moyes. His list of achievements tell you that. Bringing in Mourinho would mean we haven't learned anything, as he's just a showman.

A showman with one of the best records in world football

A current record I might add, not dining off trophies from 20 years ago

 

[NinjaFletch]

What struck me, though, was how up for it we were against Chelsea. All this talk about how VG has lost the dressing room is nonsense. They looked 100% up for it.

I honestly don't think we were anymore 'up for it' than in any other game this season.

We just came up against a really shit team, who sat off us, let us have the ball and were too shit to actually defend properly.

Even then we couldn't score.

 

[JPRouve]

So aside from Bayern and Barca, who are these mystery clubs that have achieved sustained success by rotating their manager every three years?

Lyon, Juventus, Milan, Benfica, Porto, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and if I'm not mistaken it's the same in South America.

 

[Rory 7]

The problem is though that even if a manager is successful, you can't guarantee longevity. Look at Guardiola. Someone who had played for Barca, became an incredibly successful manager after implementing his own style, and appeared to be ingrained within the club. He still left after only four years, and felt it was time to move on.

Any potential long-term manager of ours could end up doing that. Pretty much no top club manages to retain managers for decades nowadays, unfortunately, and it'd probably be quite arrogant of us to assume it's just going to work for us.

I agree, you can't guarantee longevity. My point is United should aspire to our managers being here for a long time, we're not Chelsea.

 

[Spoony]

I don't believe that the players are trying extra-hard to keep LVG in the job - even when they've commented publicly on his situation there's scant real praise or support for the manager. I wonder if there's something important & revealing, beyond the usual platitudes, in what Chris Smalling said recently: "We're all playing for our United futures."

Like what? Something big isn't it? Like Vader revealing to Luke that he's is father?

 

[golden_blunder]

He brings instant short term success, the tactics are anti football, and he is the most self absorbed egocentric guy in football.

Everything you list he learned from van gaal!

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Yeah because Van Gaal took the shackles off, He knew another defeat and he was gone so he let them have the footballing freedom. You just watch in 2-3 weeks when the shackles are back on and we create 2 chances per game, and trust me it will happen.

Maybe, maybe not. If he comes through this nightmare, and the players respect him a hell of lot more, it could see them return a lot stronger in the second half of the season.
Paul Scholes has been one of United's biggest critics this season, but even he thinks VG needs more time.

 

[golden_blunder]

I can't believe there are still lots of fans with their head firmly in the sand. At what point do they wake up and smell the coffee?