I only rate Best and Garrincha as the better RM. Not even Figo and Nedved. Others, I haven't watched that much, but statistically wise, it's hard to match Robben's output at Bayern and NT.
Many may not agree, but I also rate Rio above Nesta.
LV Monopoly D: R1 - Jayvin vs crappy
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Many may not agree, but I also rate Rio above Nesta.
Well, looks like it worked.
Thanks Crappy
So, so underrated. Scored much more beautiful goals than he's giving credit for, let alone great goals. Countless of those.Gerd Muller is a striker born to score in any circumstances: let's say 1 game 1 goal. He is GOAT who is a scorer of a great many goals but not a scorer of many great goals.
Kalle is a complete and versatile forward often renowned for his dribbling ability. He would bring pace and move around Gerd Muller.
I just did want to say I believe in the Zidane-Kalle-Gerd Muller connection
Given the high number of goals scored, I have no doubt he has scored beautiful goals!
Two very good teams for the first round. No apparent weaknesses and Jayvin without any drops had filled a pretty solid team as expected.
However IMO crappy has more final ready team looking at the sheets.
Jayvin obviously has the better flanks with Thuram and Fachetti, but crappy has the better CB pair with Nesta being the best CB on the pitch. Sammer, Van Hanegem and Zidane are great option for a diamond I'm only unsure of Luis Suarez role there and if he could pull it out in a diamond.
I rate Platini more than Zidane, but Rumenigge and Muller are better than what Jayvin offers in attack.
However IMO crappy has more final ready team looking at the sheets.
Jayvin obviously has the better flanks with Thuram and Fachetti, but crappy has the better CB pair with Nesta being the best CB on the pitch. Sammer, Van Hanegem and Zidane are great option for a diamond I'm only unsure of Luis Suarez role there and if he could pull it out in a diamond.
I rate Platini more than Zidane, but Rumenigge and Muller are better than what Jayvin offers in attack.
You don't have to take it literally. I don't think he meant that Müller never scored a great or a beautiful goal. These comments are often, if not always, relative.
Fair enough, I don't agree with either of those 2 opinions but I can see why you would vote for Jayvin given those positions.
That is where it broke down for me. I agree with anto that Sammer is not a great option for a diamond whatsoever. He's great in a 5-3-2 and if not than a box to box midfielder in a midfield setup. This role precisely take away almost all of his attacking impetus and wastes a lot of what made him great.
That and the team having a zillion playmakers. All of Zidane, van Hanegem and Suarez have been the primary playmakers of their teams. Having two is alright but three is a massive overkill and it is impossible to get the best out of all three in terms of passing and creativity.
That diamond, apart from players taking up positions similar to their playing careers, is poorly constructed, in my opinion.
Robben over Nedved? Just No
You obviously rate him pretty high, anto, however I just don't see it. Zmuda had his limitations from what I've seen from him and pace is one of them. I don't think he was particularly great in the air either, considering his height, nor particularly good on the ball.
Don't get me wrong he's a top defender, but in terms of all time pool I can think of many others that would come on top if we're to get the best CB's in history.
He was strong, and by that I mean very strong, excellent organizer and read the game pretty well - of course these qualities are well appreciated and he didn't rely purely on the physical aspect of the game, but to me he's around Puyol level, who, is entirely different defender and I'm not fond of him either, but his leadership and organizational qualities with a great all rounder in Nesta is a pretty good fit in terms of CB pair.
Don't agree. Van Hanegem played in a dutch side where Cryuff played the play-maker role too and Saurez played with Mazzola in Inter team too. I can see why some people may have a hesitation about Suarez in this role but Hanegem is perfect for this kind of role in diamond IMO.
Time for the match.
Absolutely but Gerd Muller is a sensitive matter for any Bayern Munich fan!
Some quotes about der Bomber who transformed Bayern from a mid-table side into Germany’s greatest club in a 15-year career spanning the 1960s and 1970s.
Bayern president Karl-Heinz Rummenigge said: “Without his goals FC Bayern and German football would not be what they are today. Gerd has a permanent place in the Bayern family. As a youth coach he helped shape talents like Philipp Lahm, Bastian Schweinsteiger and Thomas Muller.”
Thomas Muller wrote: “I learnt so much from him. He taught me how to play as a striker in the area. For example, shooting against the running direction of the goalkeeper or right inside the post, because the goalkeeper can no longer react."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/f...ich-pay-tribute-to-ailing-legend-gerd-muller/
I disagree on Sammer, but this is the reason I went with Desailly when I picked him but got the choice of either of them. Sammer is always a tough sell in a position different to his EURO one, which coincided with his Dortmund's peak as well. Sammer to me is a good choice to follow Platini in terms of both respective qualities. Yes you take away his attacking impetus but in an all star lineup with GOAT's everywhere you have to sacrifice some parts of particular individuals game. In this case it is Sammer, but the question is - can he deliver the task he's been assigned and whether he's a good fit based on his qualities, and of course what we've seen of him. Particularly in his defensive game I can't see why not. He's also a good choice to link the defence with midfield with his distribution and his passing ability will come in handy when he carries the ball from the back.
Van Hanegem is an excellent choice for a LCM in a diamond, I have no objections there. He can contribute in both phases and is pretty natural out wide. Zidane is #10 in his pretty much best role. For Suarez I agree with you - he's not needed in terms of playmaking ability as Sammer can take care of that from the back, Van Hanegem as box to box and Zidane as an advanced playmaker. The biggest issue here for me is how Suarez would fill in that RCM role and whether he can pull it off.
Milan in 2004-2007 had 4 at a time - Pirlo, Rui Costa, Seedorf and Kaka. Didn't work bad for them, although to me the biggest issue was that the midfield lacked bite and especially with Seedorf getting older it was more noticeable and he got moved further up the pitch, but having 4 midfielders that can pass the ball around is not always bad
You basically proved my point. van Hanegem played far more games for Feyenoord than he did for the Netherlands where he was the primary orchestrator for his team and that is exactly where his best performances came and what made him a legend of the game. He was good in the Holland team but it never showcased his full talent.
He's great to have as a CM on the left side of a midfield but perfect in a team with someone as dominating on the ball as Zidane, who's best often came with defensive midfielders behind him (Deschamps, Karembeu for France 98; Deschamps, Davids for Juve that is his best club career stint and Makélélé and Vieira for France 06)? No chance. He'd be highly restricted here and then you add Suarez to the equation and it all really goes kapoot.
There's a reason Ancelotti, a man who knows a bit about diamonds, didn't add two further playmakers to a team that already had Pirlo and Rui Costa and rather supported them with tireless hard working players like Seedorf and Rino.
That's what I said earlier, they all look great positionally. Yes of course WvH played as a LCM and Zidane played as a #10, but a small look at the players they excelled around them while playing in those positions and comparing them with the ones here is enough to tell you why this wouldn't work. It is an assortment of great playmakers, and a functional diamond has a balance of playmakers and work-horses.
Come on. That surely is an exaggeration. I'm not saying he's a sheep or anything, but do you have anything to back that up? Apart from best young player, he had no performance recognition in the world cups he played, not a regular feature in Top Polish footballers lists by whoever. If he's a top CB for a decade, surely there must be more official recognition?
Suarez was quite industrious and occasionally appeared at the right wing when he was playing further back. IIRC one of the goals that Spain scored against USSR in 1964 final was from Suarez' cross from the right.
Joga has some of his compilations on youtube/dm
Won't watch it now as the game is on, but it's worth checking out even if I'm wrong about the assist
Joga has some of his compilations on youtube/dm
Won't watch it now as the game is on, but it's worth checking out even if I'm wrong about the assist
The point is it simply wouldn't get the best of all of them, in fact only Zidane will be able to perform at his best in this setup given the other three sacrifice their game and facilitate him throughout, which is what he is used to. Just having fancy names doesn't do it for me if what they are supposed to be great for is not being utilised properly, sorry.ut having 4 midfielders that can pass the ball around is not always bad
So was WvH. Was it their industry that made them the best midfielders to play the game? Or was it their passing, creativity and the ability to control the game and pull the strings having the rest of the cast support that and make the best use of it? Forget about the two CMs, I'd like to see Zidane's reaction when someone else is pulling the strings in the team. What the hell is he there for then?
Probably a box to box RCM with solid defensive game would take that formation to the next level, but still Sammer and van Hanegem have pretty good work rate and are quite industrious so I can see it working, it's not just the names there.
That's not really the point. I'm not saying that they lack industry at all. Would have worked with some other #10s but with Zidane? Never.
van Hanegem is perfect for a diamond. Sammer though not at his Balon d'Or winning role is still a stellar presence.
Some of the criticism here is bizarre. I have seen Van Hanegem used plenty in drafts around here but I don't ever recall someone complaining about him being played with another play-maker. Milan famed diamond had 2 playmakers, 1 b2b and one destroyer, hardly a difference of day and light here. Given I plan to retain more possession, the midfield is fine IMO. Spain just won multiple titles with gazillion playmakers in one team.
Anyway I am fine with someone voting for oppo if they don't like diamond set up.
Anyway I am fine with someone voting for oppo if they don't like diamond set up.
A diamond with this set of players?
Meaningless comparisons. Like I said take a look at what kind of players Zidane excelled with and why that was the case.
First you said they won't work with any playmakers now it is just about Zidane. Anyway it is what is, I don't have a problem with the team set up I have whatsoever.
Nah, I actually gave you exact names of Zidane's teammates for a reason.
The United match has been pretty dreadful so far.
Can we hide in here and imagine this wonderful match being played out instead
I would actually appreciate someone putting some substance behind so many dissing remarks.
Completely different RWs. I get your point in that he isn't right up there with the best ever, but he could be a better choice than any of those subject to the setup.
I just don't rate Robben as much as others. To me he is someone who looks more devastatingly while on the ball than he actually is, if that makes sense.
I don't think there should be any questions if Zidane would excel here. Müller + Rummenigge is simply a massive upgrade on Inzaghi + Del Piero at Juve. The midfielders behind him are all selfless enough to let Zidane run the show in the final third or even deeper if he wants to and is on song, but are also offering a lot of back up ability in case Zidane is struggling for whatever reason.
Now, if you think that van Hanegem, Suarez and Sammer don't offer enough defensive protection, because they are all more well rounded rather than pure defensive beasts, that's fair enough. (I don't think that's true for Sammer though, he was a massive defensive presence). I don't see that personally, even though I admit that they have to somewhat restrict their game to make it work, which is a bit sad.
That being said, I could see an interesting dynamic working really well between Suarez and Sammer with the Inter version of Suarez perfectly capable of holding the midfield when Sammer makes a run forward as he always did in a 532ish system. And no one has ever used van Hanegem in a draft game in the role he played for Feyenoord, he's always used as a supporting CM rather than the main man whenever he's picked. Not sure why that should be a problem here.
Also, similarly you could argue that Platini is much more dominant on the ball than anyone Keane played with ever was and with ball carrying wingers like Neymar and Robben who also excel with the ball at their feet, Keane's role will be marginalised compared to his United peak without doubt. But then again, that's the nature of all time fantasy drafts and as long as you don't shoehorn too many selfish players who don't offer much off the ball in the same team or constantly get in each others way, it's all fine for me.
You asked for feedback so I gave you some. It's not "going by fancy teamsheets" but getting the message across to those with no time to read detailed tactics. If your teamsheet doesn't get the message across, just put a bit more TLC into it.
Your official team mascot @Balu should give us a better idea on this.
For his peak wasn't as long as others but right up there in it's own unique way.
WvH sacrificed a lot of his natural game to fit into that Netherlands team and still was amazing. Suarez too has a lot to show even without his passing range. Zidane is the main problem, of course, but it's still quite good.
Ideally, if I were to make a midfield pairing it would've been 1 from Jayvin, 1 from crappy, doesn't even matter who (well, Davids with WvH won't work as they prefer the same side but you get what I'm saying). But even now it'll work great. Not ideal, but great.