Luke Shaw out for an extended period with injury

Escobar said:
Muscle injuries are our issue it seems. As I stated 100 times I think we overtrain
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“Overtrain” is such a simplification. Poch is apparently working the Chelsea squad to the bone to get them hyper fit. Does Klopp get his players hyper fit - does he do that with light training?
 
Escobar said:
Muscle injuries are our issue it seems. As I stated 100 times I think we overtrain
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If overtraining/muscular injuries has been an issue under ETH how come we had relatively few muscular injuries last season?

Eriksen, Garnacho and Martinez were all contact injuries. Martial, Varane and Shaw are chronic sicknotes, with poor injury records going back long before ETH. Any other muscular injuries you were thinking of?

I actually can’t remember any player under ETH pulling up with the classic overtrained muscular injury, a hamstring tear. Could be wrong though.
 
Escobar said:
Muscle injuries are our issue it seems. As I stated 100 times I think we overtrain
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Why have we started the season looking so sluggish and unfit then?

I expect actually, it's the opposite and some players are suddenly expected to play at a high intensity without proper preparation, leading to injuries.

Or, maybe, actually, neither of us have any clue about how the players train.
 
Gopher Brown said:
Why have we started the season looking so sluggish and unfit then?

I expect actually, it's the opposite and some players are suddenly expected to play at a high intensity without proper preparation, leading to injuries.

Or, maybe, actually, neither of us have any clue about how the players train.
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Fatigue and a decline in athletic performance would be signs of overtraining.
 
Gopher Brown said:
Why have we started the season looking so sluggish and unfit then?

I expect actually, it's the opposite and some players are suddenly expected to play at a high intensity without proper preparation, leading to injuries.

Or, maybe, actually, neither of us have any clue about how the players train.
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That is overtraining actually. I know that as I had the same experience. You feel knackered, no energy, no drive. Like our players
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If overtraining/muscular injuries has been an issue under ETH how come we had relatively few muscular injuries last season?

Eriksen, Garnacho and Martinez were all contact injuries. Martial, Varane and Shaw are chronic sicknotes, with poor injury records going back long before ETH. Any other muscular injuries you were thinking of?

I actually can’t remember any player under ETH pulling up with the classic overtrained muscular injury, a hamstring tear. Could be wrong though.
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I could be wrong but I guess we had plenty of injuries without impact
 
Pexbo said:
“Overtrain” is such a simplification. Poch is apparently working the Chelsea squad to the bone to get them hyper fit. Does Klopp get his players hyper fit - does he do that with light training?
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It is more complex than that, and would take some time to respond. But you can train every day without overtraining, depends on intensity and rest
 
Escobar said:
That is overtraining actually. I know that as I had the same experience. You feel knackered, no energy, no drive. Like our players
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With all due respect, you should stop comparing yourself with professional athletes who are among the fittest people in the world.
 
Gopher Brown said:
Why have we started the season looking so sluggish and unfit then?

I expect actually, it's the opposite and some players are suddenly expected to play at a high intensity without proper preparation, leading to injuries.

Or, maybe, actually, neither of us have any clue about how the players train.
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Training makes you fit, unless you're over trained, or you just started out and you're getting muscle injuries.

Our players look sluggish because they fecking wasted their summer. You can not train like a mad man for 9 months, then take a 1-2 month break with only light to medium training and expect to come in full force in September after you just ramped up in the 3 weeks of pre season.

I've a friend playing in Italy for the same club for I think 15 years now, living legend among them and he was saying how most of the players overdo their summers and don't respect the fitness and food regime given by the club. Also, apparently it's very hard to monitor for obvious reasons.

If you come back unfit in preseason (like Casemiro did), you're the only one at fault, not the club.

I'm still fecking amazed that everyone thinks it's the club fault for everything. A player like Shaw has 6-8 seasons of medical, nutritional and training history here. Everyone and their dog already knows what works for him in terms of training intensity, recovery, nutrition type and amount (high car, low fat etc), resistance potential, etc. Either our doctors have suddenly turned dumb and haven't noticed his body changing and adapted accordingly everything else (which is a stretch anyway) or he is just not following what he should follow, simple as.
 
Escobar said:
Principle stays the same, it is different levels
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As relevant as you can kick the ball, professional players can kick the ball. You can argue both are same but it isn't.
 
roonster09 said:
As relevant as you can kick the ball, professional players can kick the ball. You can argue both are same but it isn't.
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There are so many pros who had that experience of overtraining. Especially after a break like they just had in summer
 
theballisround said:
Training makes you fit, unless you're over trained, or you just started out and you're getting muscle injuries.

Our players look sluggish because they fecking wasted their summer. You can not train like a mad man for 9 months, then take a 1-2 month break with only light to medium training and expect to come in full force in September after you just ramped up in the 3 weeks of pre season.

I've a friend playing in Italy for the same club for I think 15 years now, living legend among them and he was saying how most of the players overdo their summers and don't respect the fitness and food regime given by the club. Also, apparently it's very hard to monitor for obvious reasons.

If you come back unfit in preseason (like Casemiro did), you're the only one at fault, not the club.

I'm still fecking amazed that everyone thinks it's the club fault for everything. A player like Shaw has 6-8 seasons of medical, nutritional and training history here. Everyone and their dog already knows what works for him in terms of training intensity, recovery, nutrition type and amount (high car, low fat etc), resistance potential, etc. Either our doctors have suddenly turned dumb and haven't noticed his body changing and adapted accordingly everything else (which is a stretch anyway) or he is just not following what he should follow, simple as.
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I addressed that by using my weasel words:

"Or, maybe, actually, neither of us have any clue about how the players train."
 
Escobar said:
There are so many pros who had that experience of overtraining. Especially after a break like they just had in summer
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Yes and you have 0 access to the training data or any evidence to back up your point.
 
Escobar said:
Muscle injuries are our issue it seems. As I stated 100 times I think we overtrain
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Not sure about that, he generally picks up injuries most seasons.

Only documented case we have of overtraining is with Pogba because he thought the club was not doing enough fitness work under Mou
 
roonster09 said:
Yes and you have 0 access to the training data or any evidence to back up your point.
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Is it so hard for you to understand that we exchange view points and experience here? Of course it is guess work, like most staff we discuss here
 
You'd actually be surprised how little clubs "take care" of players.



In terms of players, you either get the proper professional who gives 100% to his craft or you get the "semi-pro" type of player who enjoys the football, hates the work needed, loves the paycheck, and that's about it.

Thinks of it as a "job". Which is also fine, don't get me wrong.

In terms of our current team, I see Bruno as a top top professional who takes care of his body and loves everything about football (his fitness record speaks for itself).

Luke unfortunately isn't.
Always had a feeling he never really understood his what his fitness levels should be, and seems unbothered about his injuries. Shame.
 
Escobar said:
Is it so hard for you to understand that we exchange view points and experience here? Of course it is guess work, like most staff we discuss here
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Exchange view points on the known things, the facts not the made up things. Its not really that hard to understand either.

When these training things are discussed, it is usually done based on some of the articles published by journalists who have sources at clubs, not by assumption based on nothing.
 
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Thinking that we are the only ones having fitness issues when all the big clubs around Europe are experiencing the same muscle injuries on the back of a season with a World Cup in the middle of it, and especially when United has been the club to play the most games in 2022/23 is a bit baffling.
It’s not overtraining or fitness issues, it’s just players being overused last season and suffering the setback now
 
Zed is not dead said:
Thinking that we are the only ones having fitness issues when all the big clubs around Europe are experiencing the same muscle injuries on the back of a season with a World Cup in the middle of it, and especially when United has been the club to play the most games in 2022/23 is a bit baffling.
It’s not overtraining or fitness issues, it’s just players being overused last season and suffering the setback now
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Not only big clubs but so many injuries and a lot of devasting long-term ones in our Estonian league also this season - just too hectic amount of games through the rough artificial pitch season and it all takes a toll on players.
 
Escobar said:
A forum is a place to share opinions in case you did not realize yet.
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Yeah but there's got to be some substance to it, especially if you're repeating it over and over.

What you're doing is akin to rating a player you've never seen.
 
Escobar said:
Muscle injuries are our issue it seems. As I stated 100 times I think we overtrain
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More likely Shaw is worn out after playing a mid season world cup and United being in multiple competitions last seasons. The injury is apparently related to the leg he broke.
If it was over-training, shouldn't we be seeing multiple muscle injuries in the squad?
 
Escobar said:
So I have read. Malacia, Shaw, Mount and I also believe Amad
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Not Amad.

Malacia got his before pre season even got going properly. So that leaves Shaw and Mount. Mount same injury he got last season with another club. Shaw has always been prone to muscle injuries.

It's not a lot to go on to be so certain the training is wrong.
 
Anyone who claims we overtrain is definitely on the payroll of a certain Anthony Martial.
 
McGrathsipan said:
Youth under Fergie and Harrisson was a whole different prospect

There's no reason to believe youth at United today is going to be any sort of quality if the same recruitment approach as the first team is used
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Didn’t our class of 22 win the youth FA Cup though? I believe we have some real talents from the academy
 
RedRonaldo said:
Didn’t our class of 22 win the youth FA Cup though? I believe we have some real talents from the academy
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I'd look at the longer term for a view on the overall success of the academy - like how many players from the academy over the last 10 years have had a significant impact in the first team and/or how much have we made on selling players etc.
 
I'll join the moaning by moaning about those moaning about moaners.

We need good news to stop that spiral.
 
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