Probably the only place where you would see that opinion too. We hold on to players for too long when shit hits the fan hence why we had so much deadwood to offload. Shaw was good for a short space of time over the entire span of his United career. Same with Pogba who was either injured or half interested in putting a shift in. If we want to start winning things again we need to move on. Malacia is promising and although he might not have reached the highest level Shaw reached yet, how often did Shaw himself even reach that level? We’ve watched him for long enough to know the answer to that. Same goes for Maguire.
23
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 21
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 7
- Yellow cards
- 11
- Status
20/21 is the season before last. Last season he was gash and this season hasn't started that great either. Before that he was hardly a world beater for most of the time he's been here. At age 27 he should be an undisputed first teamer producing good performance week in week out. Instead we've got a guy who seem to struggle on the basics, who is injury prone and whose bad patches last for months. That's not good enough. Irwin, Evra and even the likes of Gaz and Parker produced top quality football on a near week in week out basis.
So the people suggesting his top-level isn't good enough are justified in asking us to forget the times when his top-level was consistently world-class?
My point was that Shaw's top level is absolutely good enough to be a member of a title winning team. The post I replied to stated that he has never been good enough which is clearly not true given he had a great season just a couple of years ago. Now has he been consistent enough during his time at United? No, I don't think he has and that needs to change quickly otherwise he should be sold.
Well I think in order to perform for a title winning team you cannot split top level and consistency.
As said at age 27 he should be an undisputed first teamer producing good performance week in week out. Instead we've got a guy who seem to struggle on the basics, who is injury prone and whose bad patches last for months. That's not good enough. Irwin, Evra and even the likes of Gaz and Parker produced top quality football on a near week in week out basis.
If De Gea can be coached then why can’t Shaw be ?
DDG has been great for most of his career with us (4 Sir Matt Busby awards of the year). Shaw had been struggling for most of his career with us. DDG is not injury prone while Shaw is, DDG has certain areas of his games who is WC something Shaw does not. DDG is already showing signs of improvement. Where is Shaw btw?
De Gea is great usually from the distraction he himself causes the team leading to him having to make more saves.
What do you think of De Gea not being picked by Spain National team and why?
And also De Gea doesn’t have certain areas that he is world class in; he has or even possibly only ever had a single one.
If he had more than one asset (for example like Shaw) - there would be more ability to be coached; similar to how Wan Bissaka can only slide tackle, De Gea can only make reflex saves on the line.
What in the hell is ‘bonafide world-class’ because whatever it is Luke Shaw has never been that.
1. That has been said by some fans over and over again. Yet the managers we had (SAF, Mou, LVG) and we now have beg to differ. Even Ole who foolishly promised Henderson the moon had been made to retract everything and rely on DDG. I am not suggesting that he doesn't have flaws in his game. However this team is capable of winning games when he is on the pitch. Actually Maguire seem more of a distraction these days. How many games have we won this season with him around?
2. Manager at international level have no chance to know their players let alone coach them which is why they tend to go for players who better fit their system. Sacchi raised a few eyebrows when he took Massaro to the USA 94 instead of the likes of Vialli and Mancini while Southgate kept playing the likes of Saka ahead of Grealish and Sancho. I wouldn't put too much weight on international football. Its a different cup of tea.
3. DDG shot stopping is WC. He's also more consistent that Luke Shaw is, he get injured less and on top of that he's got great attitude. DDG wasn't the manager's pet for most of the time at OT. LVG brought Romero in ie a keeper he worked with and admired since their time in Holland. Ole on the other hand was known for his obsession with Brexit FC. DDG won them both over. That shows WC attitude as well.
Just please, look at that thread and see how people were talking about him. There's no point arguing about it when the facts are right there in front of you.
Luke is a top level fullback on his day, the issue is (and he’s not alone), we haven’t seen a consistency anything like we need to be able to make the improvements as a team. I still think he has something to offer, just depends on whether he has the motivation to push for a start.
Sorry, but that makes no sense. By definition, consistency and top-level are two different things. I can understand some people think Shaw is too inconsistent but to say that his best level, as in the best he's capable of playing in a match, is not up to scratch is either delusional or disingenuous.
I'm not who you asked, but I certainly do. His best level is one of the best LB's in the league. If he plays like he did in 20/21, any failure we have wouldn't be down to him. Shaw's best level is world class. When he is on form, our ball progression goes up a level.
Malacia has had a good start. I like his intensity a lot. He still has a lot to prove, though.
Even though I think stats tell us a lot, looking at only assists do not tell us the full story. There are plenty of other stats to look at that clearly show that Shaw is far superior going forward than AWB. Progressive passing distance. xG assisted. Key passes. Progressive passes. Through balls. Shot-creating actions.
AWB is actually better going forward than a lot of people would admit. When he's playing well, his dribbling and ball carrying are quite good. This part of his game is underrated. His final ball isn't the best.
I never said differently. All i said is that Luke Shaw 'is great going forward' is incredibly overrated. I also said that at age 27 he should be producing good football week in week out. We have his fans digging his performances of 20/21 instead
He's definitely not "great" going forwards. He's decent.
He had a spell a couple of seasons ago where his crosses connected for a couple of months.
But aside from that I've always found him a bit hesitant in the final third. Lacking in confidence a bit maybe.
He had a spell a couple of seasons ago where his crosses connected for a couple of months.
But aside from that I've always found him a bit hesitant in the final third. Lacking in confidence a bit maybe.
You do know there's more to attacking football than making assists right?
Key passes, progressive passes, progressive carries etc. He scores really highly in all of these, even last year.
We can say a lot about his passive defending but let's be clear. He is good going forward, even last year.
Nothing better than seeing Shaw burst into the opposite end with the ball.
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You my friend need to watch more football if that is your standard for the best out there.
We've been starved. I'll change it to it's the best we've had. I still maintain he's fantastic going forward and I've got a bagful of stats to prove it.He's frustrating as hell with his laid back defending but he's one of the best LBs in the world on the ball.
I’m not arguing people weren’t saying it, I’m saying whatever it is he never was. He’s gotten more goodwill than most, which is understandable due to his injury & Jose/LvG slander, but the guy is the prime example of post Fergie united - talent only bested by a lack of work ethic & application.
He has never been world class.
For the first time here he's got a proper threat to his place, and he might not come back from this one.
He stormed a season of good form when Telles arrived, but just seems to get so many niggles and be out ages.
The axis with Maguire and De Gea was absolutely dire in places.
He stormed a season of good form when Telles arrived, but just seems to get so many niggles and be out ages.
The axis with Maguire and De Gea was absolutely dire in places.
I think your usage of his assist stats in comparison to AWB wasn't a good point. I do agree that at his age, we should be seeing far more consistent performances. He has to do it now, and if he can't, he's going to be out of the door in the summer. I think the most realistic scenario is he leaves the club in the summer. It hurts me to say it. Since the day he arrived, I thought he was going to be an amazing signing.
Shaw is extremely gifted but he doesn't deserve to play for the shirt if he can't be bothered to put in the hard yards. His lack of effort over the last year has been pathetic. So many goals conceded while he loses his man or casually jogs back into position. How much body on the line defending do we see him doing the way Martinez does for example? He's an entitled footballer who has gotten too comfortable with his place at the club whilst doing very little.
Yes he has been world class. There, you just heard another guy say it.
For me, Malacia works hard in defending but isnt exactly hard working in attacking.
Shaw is the opposite, working hard on attack but not on defending.
I dont know why one is acceptable and the other is not.
Shaw is the opposite, working hard on attack but not on defending.
I dont know why one is acceptable and the other is not.
Just because he can’t continue it doesn’t mean he never played world class.
The guy was great for England and United in that season.
The guy was great for England and United in that season.
Yep, he absolutely was world class for a very short window.
What do you mean Malacia doesn’t work hard in attack?
He never truly was world class. He just showed glimpses of the version of him we all hoped for and was simply just a solid left back. There never were many assists, goals or even outstanding defensive contributions. Factor in the lingering pro-British bias and he was hyped as "world class" ...
I believe if Shaw wasn’t attacking as much as he does then he wouldn’t be struggling defensively as much as people call him out for.
Malacia is the opposite- the guy is hardly seen forward, can hardly put a cross but therefore is usually in our own half and concentrating on defending.
There’s nothing wrong with that - but what Shaw brings Malacia doesn’t bring whilst what Malacia brings Shaw doesn’t either.
Ridiculous, Shaw is just lazy and out of shape, he's not flying down the wing so much he can't defend.
When he does defend he just backs off anyway. He's terrible.
Nah, for a season and change he was right up there with the best. He was much better than solid. Doesnt mean he's maintained anything like that form since but let's not rewrite history.
Oh yes, people were saying he was world class and you were saying he wasn’t, I got that. I was just reinforcing that people have been disagreeing with you and still do. Whatever “it” is - he was “it” in the year up to and including Euro 2020. I never disagreed that some people said he wasn’t “it”, just that what ever “it” is, he “was”. If that’s clear?
I have to disagree.
Shaw’s poor defense has nothing to do with him being more attacking. He is lazy and he always cost us by always covering offsides.
Malacia is new to the league, he is already doing better than Shaw.
Probably his last chance being at United, Ten Hag will not have the patience for him, he has to perform at his best and do it consistently.
Let me explain. Even if someone has a world class ceiling but rarely ever reach that while their lowest bar is bad, then they are not truly fit for a title challenging side. In order for a top team to win you need your players to be good AND consistent.
Shaw has a very high ceiling but has reached that so rarely for us that he should be moved on. And while his best performances have been world class, most of his time at United has been consistently average to terrible.
Surely he cannot be considered a great or even good attacking left back? Andy Robertson is and Shaw was never even close to what he provides offensively. He was either not allowed to do it or couldn’t do it, but either way, he was always hesitant to really bomb forward and create opportunities. He’s certainly not been my least favourite player over recent years, but probably the most frustrating for me considering what he could have done for us.
i’ve supported shaw since he joined and really wanted him to cement his place as a first choice left back for club and country. However, i have not seen him work hard (offensively or defensively) for a long time. What Malacia showed so far gives hope at least as compared to someone who’s been at the club for ages and still struggles for consistency
- Status