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2016-17 Performances

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6.0 Season Average Rating
Appearances
19
Clean sheets
8
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0
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Falcao is the perfect example of how long it can take to recover from a bad injury, and Shaw's was much worse.

Recovering in the pressure pot of a Manchester United Premier League season just compounds the problem. He won't be back fully until pre-season & he'll be loaned out if Mourinho feels he's not back to 100% after that.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Falcao is the perfect example of how long it can take to recover from a bad injury, and Shaw's was much worse.

Recovering in the pressure pot of a Manchester United Premier League season just compounds the problem. He won't be back fully until pre-season & he'll be loaned out if Mourinho feels he's not back to 100% after that.
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It's not just the time but also lack of confidence. Falcao couldn't even run in a straight line without falling on his arse, now he looks lot more confident. With run of games Shaw will be back to his best.
 
roonster09 said:
It's not just the time but also lack of confidence. Falcao couldn't even run in a straight line without falling on his arse, now he looks lot more confident. With run of games Shaw will be back to his best.
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I'm not sure about that, he's had a run of games & actually got worse with each performance.
I think he'll do similar to his second season with LVG & start ripping it up in pre-season with the pressure off and that will send his confidence back through the roof.
 
roonster09 said:
It's not just the time but also lack of confidence. Falcao couldn't even run in a straight line without falling on his arse, now he looks lot more confident. With run of games Shaw will be back to his best.
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Not that simple. I believe it's the PL physicality demanding, intensity of fixture make it harder to getting back into after a serious injury. Ligue 1 top teams have the quality to beat any teams on their day, but their league definitely is less intense (fixture compact).
 
ti vu said:
Not that simple. I believe it's the PL physicality demanding, intensity of fixture make it harder to getting back into after a serious injury. Ligue 1 top teams have the quality to beat any teams on their day, but their league definitely is less intense (fixture compact).
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Fixture congestion? Yes but I think French league is very physical and almost all the defenders and defensive midfielders are built like tank. Players should get run of games to get back their confidence, something Shaw is struggling to get for whatever reasons.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I'm not sure about that, he's had a run of games & actually got worse with each performance.
I think he'll do similar to his second season with LVG & start ripping it up in pre-season with the pressure off and that will send his confidence back through the roof.
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I'm not sure on getting worse but he was very hesitant to get forward and support the attack. Maybe scared of getting caught out of position? There is a theory that Jose likes one full back to support the attack and one to stay back but when Blind plays he is involved a lot in the attack.
 
roonster09 said:
Fixture congestion? Yes but I think French league is very physical and almost all the defenders and defensive midfielders are built like tank. Players should get run of games to get back their confidence, something Shaw is struggling to get for whatever reasons.
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You're missing the point, Falcao got a run of games here but struggled massively. Shaw got a run of games but struggled massively. The PL is undoubtedly more demanding than the French league & isn't the perfect environment to return from bad injuries in a top side.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You're missing the point, Falcao got a run of games here but struggled massively. Shaw got a run of games but struggled massively. The PL is undoubtedly more demanding than the French league & isn't the perfect environment to return from bad injuries in a top side.
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Ramsey came back from broken leg and had very good season isn't it? Valencia came back and swept all the ManUtd awards.
 
roonster09 said:
Fixture congestion? Yes but I think French league is very physical and almost all the defenders and defensive midfielders are built like tank. Players should get run of games to get back their confidence, something Shaw is struggling to get for whatever reasons.
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It's an endless debate in other thread already. Physique does not, the amount of tackles... can define the intensity. Intensity here as in my opinion factor in some off pitch involvement: the pressure, expectation, media attention level...

roonster09 said:
Ramsey came back from broken leg and had very good season isn't it? Valencia came back and swept all the ManUtd awards.
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He did go on loan to 2 lower league clubs on the way to recover to his top level. It took him awhile after coming back to Arsenal to get back to his usual level, too.

Edit: Just checked. Only made mere 8 appearances for Arsenal in 10-11 season (season after his leg break) beside few games in said 2 loan spells.

Edit 2: and a big difference between Ramsey & Shaw is that one is just a regular young prospect, one is huge signing with huge expectation. Welsh & English factor too, maybe?! There ain't as much attention to Ramsey as it to Shaw.
 
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Lawman said:
I agree Shaw is very shot to pieces just now. But where the feck is Darmain hard to get past? Plus when he gets the ball we consistently lose possession through him he is a liability. Blind has his issues as well but atleast he retains possession. We need a new left back and if Shaw steps up then brilliant but time does not wait for no one and he needs to buckle down or face the consequences. And that's coming from me who thinks Shaw has the potential to be one of the top in the world.
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He's harder to get past than Shaw because he's in the right position. Shaw is a better 1v1 defender but it doesn't matter when he's miles out of position.

Blind would be the best of the lot but he's just too slow.

Shaw might get there but 3 years in and not much has changed.
 
roonster09 said:
Ramsey came back from broken leg and had very good season isn't it? Valencia came back and swept all the ManUtd awards.
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We went over the Ramsey thing in here yesterday @roonster09, he returned to loans at Forest & Cardiff because of the exact reasons we are mentioning here about the pressure & demands of the PL.

Valencia is a freak, I have never seen another player recover from an injury like that the way he did in all my time watching football, absolutely insane.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We went over the Ramsey thing in here yesterday @roonster09, he returned to loans at Forest & Cardiff because of the exact reasons we are mentioning here about the pressure & demands of the PL.

Valencia is a freak, I have never seen another player recover from an injury like that the way he did in all my time watching football, absolutely insane.
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Fair enough, I missed the conversation.
 
Should the Falcao resurgence teach us to be even more patient with this fella and eventually he'll be back to (near) his best?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We went over the Ramsey thing in here yesterday @roonster09, he returned to loans at Forest & Cardiff because of the exact reasons we are mentioning here about the pressure & demands of the PL.

Valencia is a freak, I have never seen another player recover from an injury like that the way he did in all my time watching football, absolutely insane.
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Agree. People are different.

And don't forget that Valencia & Falcao... already reached a certain height in their career so they can rely on their experience to get back to the feel of

Luke Shaw only about to hit a good period in our shirt before his injury, but not seasoned, battle tested. He was only young, so it's harder for Shaw now to compete with experienced player who is well versed as doing the basic & following manager's instruction.

Mourinho's demand is definitely higher than Wenger. He needs to make impression in his first season so even League Cup is in the plan to build up the season. There is no throwaway competition as Wenger & SAF in his latter years did to League Cup & FA Cup. We can't afford to throw away Europa League neither given how tough top 4 battle this season. Mourinho also take away games more serious even it's only some lower league teams.
 
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Rossa said:
Thing is though, Darmian is awful at defending. He lets people casually stroll past him. He lacks all kinds of physical attributes to be able to compete with strong and/or fast wingers/attackers. Blind is at least good at reading the game and intercepting. Darmian, I have no idea how he can do what Mourinho wants him to do.
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Well, if Darmian is this "bad", then how "bad" must Shaw be? Because I don't think he's said that Shaw still has any problems left. Isn't he supposed to be fit now? It just seems to be the tactics left for him to learn and how long can that take? Maybe it's just as simple as, he can't learn?
 
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RedMaestro said:
Well, if Darmian is this "bad", then how "bad" must Shaw be then? Because I don't think he's said that Shaw still has any problems left. Isn't he supposed to be fit now? It just seems to be the tactics left for him to learn and how long can that take? Maybe it's just as simple as, he can't learn?
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Am wondering the same thing. Darmian has been quite poor the last few times he has played. His defending is poor and he doesnt offer much going forward. What exactly is he doing right tactically that Shaw cant I just cannot understand.
 
I said few times in Darmian thread, Darmian's very disciplined in his positioning. He rarely in wrong position, evident in how very few (I can't remember the last time since Mourinho takeover) he alone played an opponent player onside! So with that in mind, the other small detail we don't have enough info/not realize during game that is being part of Mourinho's instruction, he must follow the instruction well enough. Darmian was definitely selected for some of games where we played more pragmatic.
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All our LB options are limited in some way or another way. They're picked according to opponent than playing on front foot. Shaw definitely has the potential to become someone who can fill in every situation. He's young so he has time with him. He will need to start mastering with the basic of one limited role firs before moving to another one to fill out his potential now after his injury, so he can move up the pecking order and displace one of our limited LBs. I think he was trying to do too much earlier in the season leading to miss out on fulfilling manager's instructions.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We went over the Ramsey thing in here yesterday @roonster09, he returned to loans at Forest & Cardiff because of the exact reasons we are mentioning here about the pressure & demands of the PL.

Valencia is a freak, I have never seen another player recover from an injury like that the way he did in all my time watching football, absolutely insane.
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Henrik Larsson...
 
ti vu said:
I said few times in Darmian thread, Darmian's very disciplined in his positioning. He rarely in wrong position, evident in how very few (I can't remember the last time since Mourinho takeover) he alone played an opponent player onside! So with that in mind, the other small detail we don't have enough info/not realize during game that is being part of Mourinho's instruction, he must follow the instruction well enough. Darmian was definitely selected for some of games where we played more pragmatic.
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He makes mistakes, but the good thing about him is that he's usually able to fix the "mess" his done...
 
RedMaestro said:
He makes mistakes, but the good thing about him is that he's usually able to fix the "mess" his done...
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I don't rate his ability to fix the mess, recover from mistake... it's just his positioning is consistently good enough that the risk is calculated and Mourinho can set up tactic to cover him.
 
Utterly bored of this Luke Shaw situation now. At this point I don't expect to see him until pre-season for next season.

Im fairly sure I made that point about preseason next season already earlier in the thread come to think of it but it certainly seems that way now. We simply cant afford to try give him a run of games in order to get him back up to speed while every match is so vital.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We went over the Ramsey thing in here yesterday @roonster09, he returned to loans at Forest & Cardiff because of the exact reasons we are mentioning here about the pressure & demands of the PL.

Valencia is a freak, I have never seen another player recover from an injury like that the way he did in all my time watching football, absolutely insane.
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Henrick Larson?
 
So we now have an article stating Shaw will consider leaving in the summer if he doesn't play regularly between now and the end of the season. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-united-exit-if-not-given-first-team-chances

I'm surprised we haven't seen more discussion of the scenario in which Mourinho is prepared to give Shaw another season, in case he can discover some form, but Shaw is unwilling to risk another season with minimal playing time.

1. Mourinho wants Shaw to stay and Shaw is prepared to give it another season. United use the 1 year option on Shaw's contract to retain some value, in case of sale in a year's time.

2. Mourinho prepared to sell Shaw and Shaw totally fed up with lack of playing time so happy to leave.

3. Mourinho prepared to sell Shaw but Shaw determined to stay at United until end of contract as he thinks this is his best chance of playing for a top club.

4. Mourinho happy for Shaw to stay but Shaw wants to leave. A decent offer and he'll leave. Just possible they might agree a one year loan but that's problematic with his contract situation.

I'd suggest all these scenarios are possible. At the moment, none strike me as being much more likely than the others. There may be other scenarios that I haven't considered. I suppose Shaw could get in the team soon, play brilliantly, and be considered an automatic first choice selection; that seemed far more likely one month ago than it does today.
 
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Jut a newspaper trying to get clicks imo. Slow burner day for the press as there's no shock stories, Leicester lost away which was expected and we confirmed our progression in a professional manner, both which won't sell papers or get clicks so they drum something up.

Shaw knows the situation, he was on the bench vs Blackburn and he'll most likely play during the upcoming fixture congestion.
 
pascell said:
Jut a newspaper trying to get clicks imo. Slow burner day for the press as there's no shock stories, Leicester lost away which was expected and we confirmed our progression in a professional manner, both which won't sell papers or get clicks so they drum something up.

Shaw knows the situation, he was on the bench vs Blackburn and he'll most likely play during the upcoming fixture congestion.
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I agree it's a nothing article but why do you think he'll play in our upcoming games? He hasn't had a single minute in any of our six games so far in February and I can't see him playing in the final. He's fourth choice at best atm.
 
I feel like people simply forget that he's only 21 years old and is fresh off an absolutely horrific leg break. That's really not easy to bounce back from.

Luke will be back, we just have to be patient. I'm not worried.
 
settembrini said:
I agree it's a nothing article but why do you think he'll play in our upcoming games? He hasn't had a single minute in any of our six games so far in February and I can't see him playing in the final. He's fourth choice at best atm.
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Because of the pile up of fixtures. I genuinely feel that atm Mourinho is holding him back to gain better fitness and get used to the physicality in his own time.
 
Not sure if it's been posted here, but a mate was telling me that Kevin Kilbane was talking on Newstalk in Ireland, said that apparently Shaw drives to his folks place south of London, 3 or 4 times a week. Doesn't like Manchester. Eats at service stations when making the drive. Didn't hear the piece myself, wondering if anyone else heard it? Astonishing if true.
 
dirkey said:
Not sure if it's been posted here, but a mate was telling me that Kevin Kilbane was talking on Newstalk in Ireland, said that apparently Shaw drives to his folks place south of London, 3 or 4 times a week. Doesn't like Manchester. Eats at service stations when making the drive. Didn't hear the piece myself, wondering if anyone else heard it? Astonishing if true.
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There must be something going on. He's not the fourth best left back at United, even if he's off form.
 
I have never experienced as much fan boy rosey coloured spectacles, worship of a player who is way off first team level, in my 40 years of going to watch the Reds.

Is it the fact, that the younger generation attached their hearts to his sleeve because he was a £30m, 19 year old Englishman or is it because they saw a super talented individual that must go on to greatness and cant fathom, why he is not up for the ballon dor ???
 
dirkey said:
Not sure if it's been posted here, but a mate was telling me that Kevin Kilbane was talking on Newstalk in Ireland, said that apparently Shaw drives to his folks place south of London, 3 or 4 times a week. Doesn't like Manchester. Eats at service stations when making the drive. Didn't hear the piece myself, wondering if anyone else heard it? Astonishing if true.
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I thought his folks moved to Manchester with him.
 
He needs to be loaned out in the summer to get some chances to build match fitness and get back in the rhythm of things. If he does well then maybe he'll have a chance again.

And if he doesn't reach his previous levels, him playing some games might attract some suitors if we decide to sell. Currently he hasn't played for nearly two years so his value must be extremely low.
 
Sepukku said:
I hear he's also depressed. The poor fella...
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That would be quite normal.
It was abnormal if he was happy as larry, not playing any games and going from a promising LB to a guy who struggles to make the bench.
 
MadMike said:
He needs to be loaned out in the summer to get some chances to build match fitness and get back in the rhythm of things. If he does well then maybe he'll have a chance again.

And if he doesn't reach his previous levels, him playing some games might attract some suitors if we decide to sell. Currently he hasn't played for nearly two years so his value must be extremely low.
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Agreed 100%.

The Wanderer said:
I have never experienced as much fan boy rosey coloured spectacles, worship of a player who is way off first team level, in my 40 years of going to watch the Reds.

Is it the fact, that the younger generation attached their hearts to his sleeve because he was a £30m, 19 year old Englishman or is it because they saw a super talented individual that must go on to greatness and cant fathom, why he is not up for the ballon dor ???
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Last season, many MUFC fans swore blind that the reason why we didn't compete for the league was because Shaw got injured.
I could understand if Messi or Suarez were injured, but Shaw? Can't score goals, so we blame it on a defender?
I think a lot of fan boys get attached to young players (Martial is also a folk here on this forum, who some believe will win the Ball on dor), so there is some form of delusion going on here.
 
In any case, Mou doesn't trust him at all and we hear some very weird stories that keep coming out. About him not settling in Manchester, or not watching his diet, or being depressed, or Mou's comments that he needs to work harder.

The fact is he's too far away from being an option for us and we desperately need one, like....yesterday. I expect us to move for a new LB this summer. If Shaw works himself back into being an option then great, I'll be the first to salute the lad. But at the moment we're too far from that.
 
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