Luis Suarez, £135M?

woodhouseparkred said:
Reminds me of Rocky Marciano. An absolute beast, an animal inside of the ring who would tear you limb from limb if he could have got away it, yet at the same time, one of boxings nicest blokes outside of it. He does bring with him some heavy duty baggage, enough for him to pay the surcharge because of excess luggage. However, what cannot be denied is his prowess in front of the goal, that is not in question. Just for information purposes, the number of goals he has scored since his last season, the assists too, up to present day Barcelona reads:

Played 167 games:
Scored in 136 games
Direct assist in 64 other goals.

Since he has joined Barcelona he has:

Played 120 games
Scored in 99 games
Direct assist in 49 other goals.

If he had been the main penalty taker, he would easily be on a goal a game ratio.
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United fans can't really criticise him personally when we support the likes of Keane, Giggs and Cantona. Say what you want about Suarez but he he has never intentionally ended anybody's career, never had a 10 year affair with his sister in law and never kicked a fan in the face. And yet people will say saying the "N word" (if he even did say it) in the heat of the moment is worse than all of those things. :lol: Unbelievable really.
 
I'd rather get relegated than sign this racist, hair gouging, elbow swinging, cannibalistic cnut of man.
 
Jaybomb said:
United fans can't really criticise him personally when we support the likes of Keane, Giggs and Cantona. Say what you want about Suarez but he he has never intentionally ended anybody's career, never had a 10 year affair with his sister in law and never kicked a fan in the face. And yet people will say saying the "N word" (if he even did say it) in the heat of the moment is worse than all of those things. :lol: Unbelievable really.
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As you said, "what happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch." Whatever happens off it is their business and as long as it doesn't affect the club in any way. Yes, Keane fouled Haaland, but you are forgetting that he retired because he had some sort of injury on his left knee, whereas Keane targeted his right knee. Cantona, another special player who was sick of the racism directed at him and he did something about it instead of staying quiet. Yes, he was out of order, but you cannot take that aggression away from a player like that. We knew who we were getting when we bought him, there was no mystery (I have seen a foul when he was playing for Auxerre which would make your skin crawl it was that bad.) So, I cannot really cannot understand your reasoning as to why you brought these players up.


Jaybomb said:
Anyone who wouldn't take him is mad in the head. Best striker in the world.

Plus, it would wind up Liverpool fans.

Also, this whole thread is a bit ridiculous. "Horrible human being"... really? We don't know the guy. From all accounts, he seems like a nice enough fella. Even Ivanovic and Chiellini stood up for him. What happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch.

The Evra thing is in the past, but I don't believe he's a racist. No matter how you twist it, Racists don't like black people under any circumstances. Suarez has been very friendly with the likes of Neymar, Dani Alves, Sturridge and Sterling. Now I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that none of those gentleman are caucasion.
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Here is the foul:

 
woodhouseparkred said:
As you said, "what happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch." Whatever happens off it is their business and as long as it doesn't affect the club in any way. Yes, Keane fouled Haaland, but you are forgetting that he retired because he had some sort of injury on his left knee, whereas Keane targeted his right knee. Cantona, another special player who was sick of the racism directed at him and he did something about it instead of staying quiet. Yes, he was out of order, but you cannot take that aggression away from a player like that. We knew who we were getting when we bought him, there was no mystery (I have seen a foul when he was playing for Auxerre which would make your skin crawl it was that bad.) So, I cannot really cannot understand your reasoning as to why you brought these players up.
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Suarez did all those things on the pitch and yet gets his personality criticised when we don't even know the bloke.

We excuse those 3 cause they were good for us. But if Suarez came here and banged in 35 in a season, I'm pretty sure we would be quick to forget his previous behavior.
 
Jaybomb said:
it would wind up Liverpool fans.
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It would most definetely wind up some of Liverpools fans. But my guess is, that it would wind Man Uniteds fans up even more. Read the thread! I would love it to happen though, just to see the meltdown in here and on RAWK :lol:

It would be priceless seeing you guys cheer for Suarez, after he has been public enemy No1 for the last five years. Won't happen of course..
 
Jaybomb said:
No matter how you twist it, Racists don't like black people under any circumstances.
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Racism is very nuanced and isn't simply a case of one race disliking another. Some racists may have black friends/colleagues but wouldn't want their daughter to marry someone black. They are still racist, just to a different degree than someone who dislikes all blacks. There are other countless examples you can pick here. Having black friends doesn't stop you being a racist. At all.

I also think that there are a few people on this board who have never really suffered from racism in a really negative way and do not really know anyone who has and they are unable to really comprehend racism and its many guises.
 
King Eric 7 said:
Racism is very nuanced and isn't simply a case of one race disliking another. Some racists may have black friends/colleagues but wouldn't want their daughter to marry someone black. They are still racist, just to a different degree than someone who dislikes all blacks. There are other countless examples you can pick here. Having black friends doesn't stop you being a racist. At all.
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I would call that bigotry rather than racism. Potato/Potatoe, maybe, but to me bigotry encompasses more than racism (e.g. class, for instance) and more than intolerance it results from close-mindedness and spiritual poverty. While outright racism is a more pure form of stupidity.

I touched upon it earlier when referring to South America and "racism". It's not really racism but cronyism and discrimination based on class or immigrational origins (if that is a word). E.g. Basques aren't racist IMO, but don't try marry their daughters if you aren't Basque. Nationalism is a different cup of tea really.
 
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antohan said:
I touched upon it earlier when referring to South America and "racism". It's not really racism but cronyism and discrimination based on class or immigrational origins (if that is a word).
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Much like how Chiellini bumped into Suarez with his shoulder? To me, you are just using different language to convey the same term. Language which may play down the severity of the actions of the perpetrators. Which may explain why "nobody gives a feck" about racism in South America, according to you? Maybe that nobody should be "nobody who isn't really affected by it". Name calling is just a minor form of racism to me but if you don't stamp it out where does it all end?
 
Suarez didn't just racially abuse our Captain. He refused to shake his hand, he bit 3 players, he put in potentially career ending tackles on many others. He played the game in England in a manner that I cannot respect.

It also appears that part of his play is based on pace and at 29 he will start losing it.
 
King Eric 7 said:
Much like how Chiellini bumped into Suarez with his shoulder? To me, you are just using different language to convey the same term. Language which may play down the severity of the actions of the perpetrators. Which may explain why "nobody gives a feck" about racism in South America, according to you? Maybe that nobody should be "nobody who isn't really affected by it". Name calling is just a minor form of racism to me but if you don't stamp it out where does it all end?
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Not sure why you bring up the Chiellini bump or respond in this confrontational way. I'm actually supporting your view that it's a far more nuanced issue (i.e. not using different language for the same thing but exploring these nuances).

We have an issue with bigotry and discrimination, we don't call it racism because it's not strictly that nor primarily motivated by skin colour. Get the point?
 
antohan said:
Not sure why you bring up the Chiellini bump or respond in this confrontational way. I'm actually supporting your view that it's a far more nuanced issue (i.e. not using different language for the same thing but exploring these nuances).

We have an issue with bigotry and discrimination, we don't call it racism because it's not strictly that nor primarily motivated by skin colour. Get the point?
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OK well I wasn't trying to be confrontational. It's just that, from my perspective, people don't acknowledge things that are racist and instead label them as something else. Suarez specifically mentioned Evra's skin colour - this can't be dressed up as anything other than a racist comment. Discrimination and bigotry can emcompass many different things and racism is one significant part of that.

Re: Chiellini. Suarez said the man bumped into him with his shoulder. He was trying to spin his bite into something different. I felt like you were trying to spin things when you said "discrimination based on class or immigrational origins" as if discrimination based on immigrational origins as you put it is nothing to do with racism.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread. It's based on speculation as it is and we are not even anywhere near silly season. I don't want Suarez at the club because he racially abused our player, among other things. Some people are willing to look past his antics on the pitch and I was theorising why they would do this.
 
King Eric 7 said:
Re: Chiellini. Suarez said the man bumped into him with his shoulder. He was trying to spin his bite into something different.
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An acute case of Liverpoolitis.

I felt like you were trying to spin things when you said "discrimination based on class or immigrational origins" as if discrimination based on immigrational origins as you put it is nothing to do with racism.
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Oh, I see... Didn't express that well enough. It's not a case of looking down on other immigrants that I refer to. Very much the opposite, in Uruguay the Spanish wiped out the natives so everyone is an immigrant and more than 90% of the population can trace back their ancestry to way after what was nothing but genocide.

What I mean is immigrants formed tight knit communities (Italians, Basques, Galician, British, Jews...) to support each other upon arrival so it's not about looking down on others, more like positive discrimination favouring your own. It can be healthy (solidarity, a wider sense of responsibility towards your community) but also has unhealthy manifestations (cronyism, merit often being overlooked). But it isn't rooted in intolerance the way racism is.
 
I can't believe any United fan would be in favor of signing this cnut no matter the price or quality.

The guy is a piece of shit in every way, I would never accept him as a player and ambassador at this great club
 
He's a top striker but this is all fantasy :)
 
Excellent player but I don't think I can ever bring myself to support a character like him.
 
Is everyone forgetting he is 29 yrs of age? he's not worth £135m for two years of service. Forget the fact he's a cnut.. makes no sense from a footballing perspective either.
 
Oh, I see... Didn't express that well enough. It's not a case of looking down on other immigrants that I refer to. Very much the opposite, in Uruguay the Spanish wiped out the natives so everyone is an immigrant and more than 90% of the population can trace back their ancestry to way after what was nothing but genocide.

What I mean is immigrants formed tight knit communities (Italians, Basques, Galician, British, Jews...) to support each other upon arrival so it's not about looking down on others, more like positive discrimination favouring your own. It can be healthy (solidarity, a wider sense of responsibility towards your community) but also has unhealthy manifestations (cronyism, merit often being overlooked). But it isn't rooted in intolerance the way racism is.[/QUOTE]

And what race are you if i may ask, because if you aren't a ethnic Uraguyan its easy for you to say there isn't a problem with racism, for example a Black Brazilians perspective might be different from a white Brazilian, but its laughable to say South America doesn't have a problem with racism, it undoubtedly does but maybe being you don't have the bear the consequences of it, its not as evident to you, same thing happens in Britain.
 
He racially abused a club legend, lied about it, attempted to drag the man's name through the mud and refused to shake his hand months later.

I don't give a feck if that's not as bad as what Giggs did. Wouldn't have him here on a free.
 
Righteous Steps said:
And what race are you if i may ask, because if you aren't a ethnic Uraguyan its easy for you to say there isn't a problem with racism, for example a Black Brazilians perspective might be different from a white Brazilian, but its laughable to say South America doesn't have a problem with racism, it undoubtedly does but maybe being you don't have the bear the consequences of it, its not as evident to you, same thing happens in Britain.
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European/Med (quarter each from Spain, France, Portugal and Italy). And no, I didn't say South America didn't have a problem with racism, just that we had bigger problems.

I'm a bit tired of all these assumptions from keyboard warriors on here:

1) "You never suffered racism": I worked in Europe for 20 years raising funds for NGOs and later working in Logistics. My starting point was always having to work twice as hard to earn trust as I was some dodgy South American to begin with.

2) "You are not at the receiving end so don't see it": I worked in Brazil for three years, providing healthcare services in Rio, primarily in the slums (Alemao, Vinten, i.e. "City of God"). There's not only racism but massive tribalism across regions (stereotyping and discriminating by state). But trust me, racism isn't the issue. Violence, a broken society and corrupt political class are these people's main problem.

The only places where it is top of the agenda for me is the Andean countries. There have been several incidents of Spanish descendents vs Native Indians (and vice versa) over the years. Our habit for populist leaders doesn't help that one bit, obviously.
 
Jaybomb said:
United fans can't really criticise him personally when we support the likes of Keane, Giggs and Cantona. Say what you want about Suarez but he he has never intentionally ended anybody's career, never had a 10 year affair with his sister in law and never kicked a fan in the face. And yet people will say saying the "N word" (if he even did say it) in the heat of the moment is worse than all of those things. :lol: Unbelievable really.
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How can you bring Cantona into this, he kicked someone as they were being racist to him - I would applaud anyone who did that no matter who they played for.

What Suarez did was unforgivable, and he then refused to shake Evra's hand, your point is completely and utterly ridiculous.
 
antohan said:
I would call that bigotry rather than racism. Potato/Potatoe, maybe, but to me bigotry encompasses more than racism (e.g. class, for instance) and more than intolerance it results from close-mindedness and spiritual poverty. While outright racism is a more pure form of stupidity.

I touched upon it earlier when referring to South America and "racism". It's not really racism but cronyism and discrimination based on class or immigrational origins (if that is a word). E.g. Basques aren't racist IMO, but don't try marry their daughters if you aren't Basque. Nationalism is a different cup of tea really.
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Regardless of what it is classed as in South America, in England, where was playing / living, it was racist. If he was too thick to realise that, they tough shit.
 
Does he have a contract renewal upcoming or something?
 
Its just lazy reporting. Considering Neymar/Bale/Ronaldo all renewed recently the press need another player to link with us every year now instead and Suarez seems to be next on the list. A rumour so stupid that no doubt some people will believe it despite the fact that a) we shouldn't touch him with a 10000 foot barge pole and b) he wouldn't want to join us.
 
SammyUnited_83 said:
Regardless of what it is classed as in South America, in England, where was playing / living, it was racist. If he was too thick to realise that, they tough shit.
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This is like arguing with a broken record... I'm just using what is a pointless joke of a thread to go deeper into several misconceptions on racism in South America that creeped during the Suarez incident and were impossible to explore objectively. Clearly still the case.

Yes, he is thick as pigshit and so were all those around him who should have known better. Nothing to discuss or excuse there.
 
Creepy said:
Yeah I know, Giggs is about 1000 times worse.
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At the risk of getting banned, I will say this, you obviously don't know anything about racism and you've never experienced it. You are typical example of what we call white privilege who is way to damn clueless about real life.
 
FCBarca said:
He does, he's next on the renewal/extension list at Barcelona. MD claim the club is close to announcing the renewal, only small details remain
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You would think City is a more obvious link to put pressure during negotiations. What with Pep and lazy Aguero? It's not like the rumour needs to sell papers, but sound realistic.
 
antohan said:
You would think City is a more obvious link to put pressure during negotiations. What with Pep and lazy Aguero? It's not like the rumour needs to sell papers, but sound realistic.
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It would be, especially since Pere is Luis' agent but I can't see Suarez leaving so long as Messi is at Barcelona - they are BFFs after all
 
FCBarca said:
It would be, especially since Pere is Luis' agent but I can't see Suarez leaving so long as Messi is at Barcelona - they are BFFs after all
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He pretty much said he would love to play there until he retires at the Golden Foot ceremony. He would be mad to think otherwise, mind, and I can't see him giving you any trouble over money.
 
Jaybomb said:
United fans can't really criticise him personally when we support the likes of Keane, Giggs and Cantona. Say what you want about Suarez but he he has never intentionally ended anybody's career, never had a 10 year affair with his sister in law and never kicked a fan in the face. And yet people will say saying the "N word" (if he even did say it) in the heat of the moment is worse than all of those things. :lol: Unbelievable really.
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Keane did not end anyone's career as a player. This never happened.
 
antohan said:
He pretty much said he would love to play there until he retires at the Golden Foot ceremony. He would be mad to think otherwise, mind, and I can't see him giving you any trouble over money.
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No I don't see it either, apparently he will be on level wages with Neymar behind Messi - which is at it should be, IMHO

Dani Alves, Ronaldinho & Suarez - easily the most devastating transfers in the club's recent history. More so than Neymar, atm.
 
FCBarca said:
He does, he's next on the renewal/extension list at Barcelona. MD claim the club is close to announcing the renewal, only small details remain
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Which explains the bullshit of being linked with us.
 
Sereques said:
At the risk of getting banned, I will say this, you obviously don't know anything about racism and you've never experienced it. You are typical example of what we call white privilege who is way to damn clueless about real life.
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Well, you are wrong. I've experienced racism on a regular basis, coming from a different country to live in Northern Ireland. Not saying Northern Irish people are all racist, just giving a bit of background. Anyway, I've received abuse by my own team mates for playing like shite or not passing the ball at the right time. Namely, being called a 'Russian bastard'. And yeah you brush it off, but it still stung a bit deep down. So yeah, I've had my share.

It's not as bad as being called the 'n' word with all the horrific history that comes with the whole meaning, but to just make sweeping statement, whilst knowing nothing about me, is pretty stupid.

Also, what I said is not that outlandish, obviously, Giggs isn't '1000 times worse' but he is worse, in my opinion.

I don't condone racism, it's abhorrent to be treated differently because the colour of your skin or background or any other prejudice, but I also believe things can be said in the heat of the moment. I believe Luiz Suarez is a troubled and ill informed individual but not necessarily a pure evil.

Anyway, I just think what Giggs did to his brother was completely sickening. It wasn't a one off, he had an affair with his brothers wife for best part of a decade. It's bizarre almost. In my opinion that is worse than the way Suarez behaves on the pitch. Again, I don't condone Suarez's behaviour, I was just making my original point that we've had scumbags playing for our club too, who also happen to be our club legend. So why would we stop supporting the club if he signed. That's all.
 
There's quite a bit of irony and hypocrisy in the universal condemnation of Suarez's racism from a group of fans that used to sing about Emmanuel Adebayor's dad washing elephants and his mother being a whore.
 
Jev said:
There's quite a bit of irony and hypocrisy in the universal condemnation of Suarez's racism from a group of fans that used to sing about Emmanuel Adebayor's dad washing elephants and his mother being a whore.
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Which fans sang that?
 
Creepy said:
Which fans sang that?
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Not saying anyone writing in this thread did as I obviously wouldn't know. But even though it was originally a Spurs chant, it got a few rounds at Old Trafford. Don't recall the same sort of outcry from United fans back then.
 
Jev said:
Not saying anyone writing in this thread did as I obviously wouldn't know. But even though it was originally a Spurs chant, it got a few rounds at Old Trafford. Don't recall the same sort of outcry from United fans back then.
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Yeah I've never heard of that chant of being sung by united fans. All the clubs around the country have dickheads, including United.
 
Creepy said:
Yeah I've never heard of that chant of being sung by united fans. All the clubs around the country have dickheads, including United.
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What I'm saying is that I am convinced that at least a third (and I believe I'm being very generous here) of the fans calling Suarez a despicable human being because he on one occasion, allegedly, used the word 'negrito', have said (or sung) way worse things at least once in their lives.
 
Jev said:
What I'm saying is that I am convinced that at least a third (and I believe I'm being very generous here) of the fans calling Suarez a despicable human being because he on one occasion, allegedly, used the word 'negrito', have said (or sung) way worse things at least once in their lives.
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Yeah, I think most people in their lives said things that they have probably regretted.
 
Creepy said:
Well, you are wrong. I've experienced racism on a regular basis, coming from a different country to live in Northern Ireland. Not saying Northern Irish people are all racist, just giving a bit of background. Anyway, I've received abuse by my own team mates for playing like shite or not passing the ball at the right time. Namely, being called a 'Russian bastard'. And yeah you brush it off, but it still stung a bit deep down. So yeah, I've had my share.

It's not as bad as being called the 'n' word with all the horrific history that comes with the whole meaning, but to just make sweeping statement, whilst knowing nothing about me, is pretty stupid.

Also, what I said is not that outlandish, obviously, Giggs isn't '1000 times worse' but he is worse, in my opinion.

I don't condone racism, it's abhorrent to be treated differently because the colour of your skin or background or any other prejudice, but I also believe things can be said in the heat of the moment. I believe Luiz Suarez is a troubled and ill informed individual but not necessarily a pure evil.

Anyway, I just think what Giggs did to his brother was completely sickening. It wasn't a one off, he had an affair with his brothers wife for best part of a decade. It's bizarre almost. In my opinion that is worse than the way Suarez behaves on the pitch. Again, I don't condone Suarez's behaviour, I was just making my original point that we've had scumbags playing for our club too, who also happen to be our club legend. So why would we stop supporting the club if he signed. That's all.
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The issue here is not about Giggs or Suarez, the issue here is that you think infidelity is worse than racism. And I stand by my comment, you haven't experienced it.
 
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