Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances

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Opinions are like a clitoris...every cnut has one!

My view is Nani can do the special but looses the ball too often. Ashley delivers a pass more often and can score a special goal just as Nani can (I'm no Nani hater BTW)
 
Absolute tripe. Young is on par if not better as a whole round player than Nani IMHO. To say he is a far inferior is bias and disrespectful to the player and our manager.

lulwut?
 
Absolute tripe. Young is on par if not better as a whole round player than Nani IMHO. To say he is a far inferior is bias and disrespectful to the player and our manager.

Really surprised to hear that.

Their best qualities are different - whereas Nani is explosive, Young plays percentages - but I don't see Young beating his man or creating an opportunity out of thin air the way Nani does.

If you think the post you quoted was disrespectful or whatever than I'd (respectfully) suggest you are being a bit sensitive. :)
 
Opinions are like a clitoris...every cnut has one!

My view is Nani can do the special but looses the ball too often. Ashley delivers a pass more often and can score a special goal just as Nani can (I'm no Nani hater BTW)

You don't think Nani loses the ball more because he's more ambitious in his play?

It's like saying Scholes is better than Giggs because Scholes' passing completion is better than Giggs'. The reality is that we have a use for both.
 
Really surprised to hear that.

Their best qualities are different - whereas Nani is explosive, Young plays percentages - but I don't see Young beating his man or creating an opportunity out of thin air the way Nani does.

If you think the post you quoted was disrespectful or whatever than I'd (respectfully) suggest you are being a bit sensitive. :)

I pretty much agree with this. I actually thought Young was faster than he is, Agbonlahor prior to the muscle thingy fast but he really isn't. Nor is he as good at dribbling past players as I thought him to be either. It actually makes sense that he would be at least as good playing in the middle...

Imo, Nani is the better winger due to more technical flair, more pace, and he can create something out of thin air, whereas Young needs a bit more space and players around him to make something - at times his crossing may be better though.
 
I pretty much agree with this. I actually thought Young was faster than he is, Agbonlahor prior to the muscle thingy fast but he really isn't. Nor is he as good at dribbling past players as I thought him to be either. It actually makes sense that he would be at least as good playing in the middle...

Imo, Nani is the better winger due to more technical flair, more pace, and he can create something out of thin air, whereas Young needs a bit more space and players around him to make something - at times his crossing may be better though.

Not sure if I'm being harsh, but I too expected Young to be quicker and also for his crossing to be more accurate, if I'm honest. Playing in the middle is an interesting idea, Fergie said he could play there but I've not seen us try it yet.

I would suggest though that Young has struck up a decent rapport with Evra and has tracked back quite a bit when our LB has gone walkabout.
 
I pretty much agree with this. I actually thought Young was faster than he is, Agbonlahor prior to the muscle thingy fast but he really isn't. Nor is he as good at dribbling past players as I thought him to be either. It actually makes sense that he would be at least as good playing in the middle...

Imo, Nani is the better winger due to more technical flair, more pace, and he can create something out of thin air, whereas Young needs a bit more space and players around him to make something - at times his crossing may be better though.

Yeah his dribbling is extremely frustrating, he seems so unwilling to take on his man. I think it is possibily a confidence thing because at the beginning of the season he was dribbling more frequently, but far too often he just wants to turn back and play it back to Evra or infield to Carrick etc. Opta have Nani making over twice the dribbles per game than Young which isn't surprising. He's just far more direct and creative than Young.
 
Yeah his dribbling is extremely frustrating, he seems so unwilling to take on his man. I think it is possibily a confidence thing because at the beginning of the season he was dribbling more frequently, but far too often he just wants to turn back and play it back to Evra or infield to Carrick etc. Opta have Nani making over twice the dribbles per game than Young which isn't surprising. He's just far more direct and creative than Young.

Maybe symptomatic of English players coming from smaller teams, that they're prone to defer to the senior United player

I'm sure when Carrick came in in 2006 people felt he deferred to Scholes a bit too much, but whether that's because Scholes is so good or Carrick was a bit over-awed at first, who knows.
 
Not sure if I'm being harsh, but I too expected Young to be quicker and also for his crossing to be more accurate, if I'm honest. Playing in the middle is an interesting idea, Fergie said he could play there but I've not seen us try it yet.

I would suggest though that Young has struck up a decent rapport with Evra and has tracked back quite a bit when our LB has gone walkabout.

I don't think you expect too much; as I said, I thought he was basically on par with Agbonlahor for pace and Nani for dribbling - he really isn't for either though.

His link-up with Evra has become really good, and Evra defends better with Young too as Young is as surprisingly good defender!

Overall, he's had a good first season here, he's just not exactly the type of player whom I thought he was... (and I have seen him quite a bit at Villa)
 
Yeah his dribbling is extremely frustrating, he seems so unwilling to take on his man. I think it is possibily a confidence thing because at the beginning of the season he was dribbling more frequently, but far too often he just wants to turn back and play it back to Evra or infield to Carrick etc. Opta have Nani making over twice the dribbles per game than Young which isn't surprising. He's just far more direct and creative than Young.

Seems about right - he has shown, from time to time, that he has great pace, but the next match he looks sluggish. Then we see some great dribbles, and the next match he never dares to take on his match once; maybe it's a lack of confidence thing coupled with his first season here. Hopefully we will see him even better next season - as I said above, it is a good first season with us!
 
Absolute tripe. Young is on par if not better as a whole round player than Nani IMHO. To say he is a far inferior is bias and disrespectful to the player and our manager.

Even Young would disagree with you.

Opinions are like a clitoris...every cnut has one!

My view is Nani can do the special but looses the ball too often. Ashley delivers a pass more often and can score a special goal just as Nani can (I'm no Nani hater BTW)

Thats because he's more ambitious in his play and more willing to take risks. Young is like Valencia in that sense, plays the percentages meaning he'l always lose the ball more.

Is young a better winger than giggsy was too then as giggsy lost the ball a lot too? Different players have different styles, ball retention isnt the be all and end all of things.
 
Both Nani and Valencia are better than Young. He's be third choice for me. Lacks the genuine top class ability than Nani has and hasn't got Valencia's ability to bulldoze fulbacks. He's got his own qualities but I prefer the other two.

He seems to do better when we play with a fast tempo. Early on when we played a lot of one touch quick tempo passing football it brought out the best of his qualities. He isn't as effective when the tempo is slow and he has to take on his fullback and beat him outright.
 
It's amazing the way so many people are blind to Nani's poor performances this season. It's really not hard to see why Fergie so often preferred Young if you have a functioning memory. In the entire season just gone, there was a handful of really top performances from Nani amidst an awful lot of dross. Bizarre the way he's so often talked about as our best winger by a margin when he's not looking it where it matters, on the pitch.

Young was hit and miss too and rightfully dropped when he was out of form. Don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that the same happened to Nani.
 
It's amazing the way so many people are blind to Nani's poor performances this season. It's really not hard to see why Fergie so often preferred Young if you have a functioning memory. In the entire season just gone, there was a handful of really top performances from Nani amidst an awful lot of dross. Bizarre the way he's so often talked about as our best winger by a margin when he's not looking it where it matters, on the pitch.

Young was hit and miss too and rightfully dropped when he was out of form. Don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that the same happened to Nani.

Probably because with Nani, even if he's having a shitty game, he can still turn the match around for you. Young's scored some good goals for us as well but it's hard to say that Nani's not a special player.

It's weird comparing Young to Nani in the sense of perceived performances though. It's Young first season and because he hasn't set the world alight, it's made it easier for some fans to be critical of him. Also for some, he hasn't lived up to their expectations and we know how that goes.

Compare that to when Nani came into the club. Relatively unknown youngster from Portugal. In his first season, scored some absolute scorchers and was often compared to Ronaldo. Then there was that period of time where everyone thought he was going to be sold and then he turned the corner with some really good performances. Ever since then, Nani's been seen as a vital player. Once you get past that stage, you're given some leeway. Same thing happens with Rooney.

So looking at it from that point of view, we're better off just comparing and contrasting Young and Nani's game. Even though Nani takes more risks, I still think he's pretty economical with the ball. It just really shows when he's having a poor game. I'm not sure about the awful lot of dross bit. I would simply say he hasn't as good of a season as he did last season.

IMO, Young is the safer option. A really dangerous player on his day but will play to percentages and good worker on the defensive end as well. To be fair, all of our wingers have had their good and bad spells this season. I think a good amount of that comes down to injuries. You just lose your edge a bit and we see this the most with Nani.

I'm not quite sure which games this season or run of games that he's not looked like our best winger as you say but for me, the closest one to being the standout winger for this season is Valencia and that's no slight on Nani. He had his bright periods this season. However, some of those bright periods get muddled with the earlier parts of the season that most of us seem to forget about. We're getting at remembering the most recent of performances and holding on to that. I think you're being a bit harsh pogue but maybe that's your way of playing devil's advocate. A role you play quite well sometimes.
 
I see having wingers with different skills and qualities as different tools in a toolbox with which Fergie can approach lineups against the opposition. There are situations where Young's qualities on the left may match up better against the opposition RB, likewise the same with Nani. Based on a long, grueling league season as well as multiple cups, injuries, fatigue, suspensions etc., its good to have as many options as possible when specific situations that call for specific players. Nani, Young, Valencia, and possibly another winger would give Fergie the needed depth to control our wide play.
 
Opinions are like a clitoris...every cnut has one!

My view is Nani can do the special but looses the ball too often. Ashley delivers a pass more often and can score a special goal just as Nani can (I'm no Nani hater BTW)

Nani scores more, gets more assists and makes more key passes than Young. He is a winger and that is his job. Ashley Young has a higher pass completion rate but makes fewer passes per game.

Nani also has two good feet, the problem with Young is that a good defender can mark him out of the game because he can only run in one direction with the ball.
 
The argument about Nani losing the ball more is moot seeing that Messi is the player in La Liga who loses the ball most. If you try the impossible, sometimes it will be just that, but when it come off it really is a goal or an assist out of nothing - who would have thought Berbatov's stunning assist to Ronnie a couple of seasons ago would've worked?

I somewhat agree with Pogue in that Nani hasn't been as brilliant this season as we would've hoped, however if you couple his brilliant last season with his injuries this season that goes some way to explain that. Also, he still scores a lot of goals and assists about the same as Valencia, so he is quite efficient.

Both players are very good, and I'm just glad we have both. I'm just a little surprised that Young wasn't really the kind of player whom I thought he was; that may just be down to me not watching him enough before though.
 
It's amazing the way so many people are blind to Nani's poor performances this season. It's really not hard to see why Fergie so often preferred Young if you have a functioning memory. In the entire season just gone, there was a handful of really top performances from Nani amidst an awful lot of dross. Bizarre the way he's so often talked about as our best winger by a margin when he's not looking it where it matters, on the pitch.

Young was hit and miss too and rightfully dropped when he was out of form. Don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that the same happened to Nani.

Well yeah, that's all there is too it, SAF tries to play whoever's in form (except for the City game :(), there's nothing else to it. Nani on his day is arguably our best player, however this season he's been too up and down and the injury he had mid season didn't help. Young isn't as good as Nani but he arguably has a more consistent game because he doesn't really deviate from what he's going to do, same with Valencia really. Nani's defensive work is underrated here but I think Young is really good too. Young's been a good signing, even if it wasn't the most pressing issue we had last summer. I'd like to see Nani in a more central role, I really think he'd thrive in it.
 
It's amazing the way so many people are blind to Nani's poor performances this season. It's really not hard to see why Fergie so often preferred Young if you have a functioning memory. In the entire season just gone, there was a handful of really top performances from Nani amidst an awful lot of dross. Bizarre the way he's so often talked about as our best winger by a margin when he's not looking it where it matters, on the pitch.

Young was hit and miss too and rightfully dropped when he was out of form. Don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that the same happened to Nani.

You can say same about Valencia. In first two or three months of the season he was average at most, he was constantly dropped or playing as a RB.
I remember the game against Palace where he was struggling against their fullback, it was really sad to watch Valencia struggling against 2nd league fullback.
 
The only reason Young has been getting in ahead of Nani is he offers more cover to the full back.

It is Nani's job predominantly to create and score goals which he is with Rooney the best at in our team. Not to help someone who cannot defend. If anything Evra should be on his way, with Nani playing infront of a full back who can actually defend. Otherwise Nani should play on the right, ahead of Valencia.

I don't see why our wingers should get blamed for a full back's deficiencies, considering some of the best wingers in the world don't have these problems because they are playing infront of a full back who knows what his responsibilities are. Just look at Bayern. Saying that, Nani tracks back more often than not and for me that's totally fine. It's not his job to make up for Evra's mistakes
 
It is Nani's job predominantly to create and score goals which he is with Rooney the best at in our team. Not to help someone who cannot defend. If anything Evra should be on his way, with Nani playing infront of a full back who can actually defend. Otherwise Nani should play on the right, ahead of Valencia.

I don't see why our wingers should get blamed for a full back's deficiencies, considering some of the best wingers in the world don't have these problems because they are playing infront of a full back who knows what his responsibilities are. Just look at Bayern. Saying that, Nani tracks back more often than not and for me that's totally fine. It's not his job to make up for Evra's mistakes

That is just about the most ridiculous thing I have ever read! So Evra should never go forwards to help out Nani in attack? Our CBs should not go forward on corners as their job is not to score.

You play as a team, you win as a team and you lose as a team! One of Rooney's great traits is that he links up the midfield and the attack - but as he is an attacker you probably think he should just stop that and let the midfield sort that out for themselves? :wenger:

Evra goes forward a lot, thus the winger has to track back to cover - if you think other teams does any different in a 4-4-2 you should try watching more football! :rolleyes:

Wouldn't you, in fact, argue that Valencia is so great because he interlinks so well with his fullback, in attack and in defense? Wtf... :nono:
 
I never said Evra shouldn't go forward, but his main job is to defend and the past year or two he hasn't been very good at it. Rafael gets lambasted on here for being caught out or ballwatching but we're talking about an experienced full back, who is supposed to be the captain and most of our opponents attacks come down his side because he is always caught out of position.
 
You can say same about Valencia. In first two or three months of the season he was average at most, he was constantly dropped or playing as a RB.
I remember the game against Palace where he was struggling against their fullback, it was really sad to watch Valencia struggling against 2nd league fullback.

You've missed the really obvious reason for Valencia's poor early season form. Which is odd, seeing as it's contained within your post.

Once Valencia stopped having to cover for injured fullbacks he hit a decent run of form which lasted almost the whole season, despite an unfortunately timed injury. Which is a consistency that neither of our other wingers achieved.
 
I never said Evra shouldn't go forward, but his main job is to defend and the past year or two he hasn't been very good at it. Rafael gets lambasted on here for being caught out or ballwatching but we're talking about an experienced full back, who is supposed to be the captain and most of our opponents attacks come down his side because he is always caught out of position.

And Ferguson was the one who pointed out Evra's importance in attack, the way he freed up space for others and goes on overlapping runs. His link-up play is also terrific in attack. So perhaps his role is more than just defending? Alvez is just as much part of Barca's attack as he is their defense.

You oversimplify to the extremes here - do you not suppose a lot of the opponents attacks coming down our left is more intricate that that? Right side has Valencia, who is great at covering for the fullback - more importantly, Carrick plays on the right of the midfield, and he is brilliant at intercepting the ball. On the left midfield we either play Giggs or Scholes, whose defending will hardly go down in the hall of fame at Old Trafford. And although Nani and Young are good at tracking back, they are not at the level of Valencia!
 
You've missed the really obvious reason for Valencia's poor early season form. Which is odd, seeing as it's contained within your post.

Once Valencia stopped having to cover for injured fullbacks he hit a decent run of form which lasted almost the whole season, despite an unfortunately timed injury. Which is a consistency that neither of our other wingers achieved.

Nani was injured quite a bit too, you know. And Nani has played on the left quite a bit, which I guess is also 'out of position' in a way.

Why do you always come into this thread and parade about Valencia? We all know you think he's a better player than Nani already, and you clearly prefer him.
 
You've missed the really obvious reason for Valencia's poor early season form. Which is odd, seeing as it's contained within your post.

Once Valencia stopped having to cover for injured fullbacks he hit a decent run of form which lasted almost the whole season, despite an unfortunately timed injury. Which is a consistency that neither of our other wingers achieved.

Well, not really. I like Valencia, and IMO he, Carrick and Evans, are our players of the season, but his start of the season was really poor, and I am not counting the game where he played as a fullback. Let's do a little review:

vs benfica(His start of the season ) -where he was starter as a winger, and like rest of our team, had quiet game.
vs Chelsea - benched, introduced later as a fullback
vs Leeds - he was starter as a winger, but tbh I don't remember his performance. Let's say he had a good game.
vs stoke - he played as a fullback,
vs Basel - he played as a winger and he didn't have his best game, Nani replaced him later.
vs Norwich -played as a fullback.
vs liverpool - where he was benched again, but in that game most of our first choices were dropped too. Carrick, Rooney, Nani didn't start that game too. But, both Nani and Rooney were introduced later, but Valencia stayed on the bench for whole game.
vs Otelul - He played as a winger, not really good game, he was substituted in 71st minute.
vs City - He was at the bench, didn't feature at all
vs Aldershot - played whole game and scored, had a good game
vs Everton - he was on the bench once again, introduced later
vs Otelul - played as a winger, and put a good performance
vs Sunderland - spent game the bench
vs Swansea- Spent most of the game on the bench, introduced in 82'.
vs Benfica - Starter, had a good game
vs Newcastle - bench, didn't play
vs Crystal Palace - Played as a winger, our only threat in that game, but considering the lineup it was expected, but he didn't have his best game, once again.
vs Aston Villa - bench, but he was introduced early instead of injured Hernandez, had a solid game, nothing special.
vs Basel - he wasn't starter once again, watched the game from the bench
vs Wolves - probably his best game from start of the season, started as a winger, picked up 3 asists.

This game against Wolves was probably game where his season really "started", after that game, he was in great form untill rest of the season.
Before that game his form was nowhere near his best, it's fair to say he underperformed. He did play some of the games as a fullback, but he played more games as a winger and in those games he wasn't puting good performances, prove for that is that he was often benched, there were games where he didn't feature at all and he was fit.
Game against Benfica(his returning after injury) was played 14.9.2011, and the game against Wolves was played 10.12.2011., that's 3 months.
 
So has he had a shit season then?

I read that in the matchday thread.

8 goals and 12 assists in 25 starts
 
It's amazing the way so many people are blind to Nani's poor performances this season. It's really not hard to see why Fergie so often preferred Young if you have a functioning memory. In the entire season just gone, there was a handful of really top performances from Nani amidst an awful lot of dross. Bizarre the way he's so often talked about as our best winger by a margin when he's not looking it where it matters, on the pitch.

Young was hit and miss too and rightfully dropped when he was out of form. Don't know why people find it so difficult to accept that the same happened to Nani.

You have to have plucked that out of thin air without thinking. You're creating your own facts. Unless you're confusing his injury with being dropped for Young? I can only remember maybe 3 or 4 times when he sat out in favor of Young since January, and that was recently immediately after his return to first team action as he was being eased back into match fitness. Or am I missing something?

And in the first half of the season (Sept - Dec), he was certainly our best attacker. I feel like you watched another season altogether.
 
It is Nani's job predominantly to create and score goals which he is with Rooney the best at in our team. Not to help someone who cannot defend. If anything Evra should be on his way, with Nani playing infront of a full back who can actually defend. Otherwise Nani should play on the right, ahead of Valencia.

I don't see why our wingers should get blamed for a full back's deficiencies, considering some of the best wingers in the world don't have these problems because they are playing infront of a full back who knows what his responsibilities are. Just look at Bayern. Saying that, Nani tracks back more often than not and for me that's totally fine. It's not his job to make up for Evra's mistakes
Spot on. It simply pisses me off when I hear talk of a winger having to cover a fullback.
 
Of course he hasn't had a shit season :lol:

he hasn't been as spectacular as last season...but stats wise, it's been a pretty good season.

I think that he got 4 assists and 2 goals against Le Arse in the 8-2 win, which has skewed his end season stats a little. He is a good player but inconsistent. It was always the complaint of the Villa fans.
 
I think that he got 4 assists and 2 goals against Le Arse in the 8-2 win, which has skewed his end season stats a little. He is a good player but inconsistent. It was always the complaint of the Villa fans.

I think he was talking about Nani.
 
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