I don't know why we keep coming to this point but nani is easily better than valencia for me. He's among our top 3 players (Vidic, Rooney, Nani). Valencia is in the next tier but still an excellent player.
Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances
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Can't you just accept some people think Valencia's a better player, cina? We all know you think that's mad, we all know that no matter what anyone else says you'll still think it's mad...what could you possibly get out of telling anyone that decides to voice that opinion that it's mental?
nor do I. It's rather frustrating.
Because they come into a thread about Nani and decide to tell everyone they think Valencia is better, constantly?
Read back a page Brwned, you'll see I completely acknowledged that. I only say it's mad when people base it on idiotic things like claiming Nani is inconsistent, selfish etc etc.
Nani is by far the best winger at the club, in the league and you could argue a case in the world can't really think of many if any better. Valencia is a very good player but does not have the class of Nani
Nani is inconsistent, selfish and has been shite for weeks now.
Valencia is far more consistent, is a better crosser and works harder.
Valencia is far more consistent, is a better crosser and works harder.
Surely the whole point of this place is opinion. If you disagree with someone, say so.
I actually think with Nani people refuse to see what is in front of them. They remember Nani as a showboating, diving fairy of a player, who made the wrong decision time and again and who was frustrating as feck to watch, in his earlier years. They don't seem to realise what he has grown into. He's very fecking good these days. And his ball retention has gone up a level. He makes things happen. Valencia is a solid pro, he does the right thing all the time, but without the extra flair. Some people I guess prefer a solid type to the player that does something out of the ordinary, but it's this unpredictibility that raises Nani above the level of a standard solid style winger.
I love them both, and wouldn't swap either of them. Nani just sits at a higher level.
People will continue to say and think that Nani's inconsistent, selfish etc. etc. though, it can't be that hard to leave them to that opinion once you've had that exact same debate over and over again with so many other people?! Walk into any pub during a United game and I'll guarantee someone's ridiculing Nani for poor decision-making and being inconsistent. Particularly this season when he has actually been inconsistent.
Has Bilbo said any of that anyway? He said he didn't think he was one of the best in the world in his position which is hardly controversial, then he went on to say he preferred Valencia because he had better pitch awareness and that made the difference for him.
I'd imagine having his ankle shattered in the early part of last season didn't help with Valencia's pursuit of individual honours. He still managed to recover from that horrific injury to put in some brilliant performances in the closing months of the season, displacing Nani from the team in the process.
The season before that he racked up 7 goals and 11 assists, as compared to Nani's 7 and 9. This was his first season as a Manchester United player. Which is usually reason enough to expect a much better return in subsequent seasons.
So far this season Valencia has been marginally more productive than Nani. Racking up a goal or assist every 117 minutes, versus every 129 minutes for Nani. He's done this despite spending a lot of the early part of the season playing as a defender and missing out on the whole of pre-season with an injury picked up on international duty. We've previously seen that players who miss pre-season can take months to get up to speed (e.g. Tevez and Ronaldo) Stats aside, I don't think anyone would deny that - taking the season as a whole - Valencia has simply been playing better than Nani.
At the end of the day, there's no denying Nani's individual brilliance. He's capable of doing things with a football that Valencia can only dream of. That said, any footballer is only as good as his end product and Valencia has blossomed into an incredibly potent and effective right winger. Improving season on season, despite an almost career-ending injury. If you imagine them as tennis players, Nani would be the mercurial genius pulling off outrageous drop shots and angled volleys but always capable of an unforced error. Valencia would be plugging away, running down every ball and hitting it back into the corners. That's a close game right there.
My own opinion is that, if forced to choose, I'd rather have Nani at the club. This is because I think he has the greater potential of the two. That said, not every footballer delivers on their potential and so long as Valencia keeps delivering the way he has this season I think people need to appreciate that this supposed gulf in quality between the two of them is nowhere near as vast as a lot of people on here seem to think.
Your tennis analogy amounts to Nani being Federer, and Valencia being Nadal. Federer is the man for me in that battle, as is Nani in this one.
I don't think there is a huge gulf, the difference is slight. Nani is just on a slightly higher plain to Valencia. He's one of those players we'd look to to pull something out of the bag when we need it.
This whole argument started over people suggesting Nani wasn't World Class because he isn't one of the best wingers in the world, and in fact isn't even the best at his own club. I've yet to see anyone categorically name 4/5 better wingers in the world than Nani where the consensus is that yes indeed, they are better.
I'm not a big tennis fan but doesn't Nadal have the beating of Federer most times they play each other?
I rest my case
He said is inconsistent.
This thread is about Nani, if I feel somebody in the thread unjustifiably criticizes him then I will react, what's wrong with that?
But what really irks me is when people come in here and just say Valencia is better. Do I go into the Valencia thread and say 'he's one footed, Nani is better' bla bla? Nope. I go into that thread to praise/criticize his performances (mostly the former). It's just totally needless, what's the point?
If people think Valencia is better then fine, don't fecking come in here and start saying it.
I'm not a big tennis fan but doesn't Nadal have the beating of Federer most times they play each other?
I rest my case
He has a superior record against him indeed. Nadal leads 18-9, but more than half those matches were on Nadal's favoured clay court, a surface Federer has never really been great on.
I meant their styles though, Federer the skillful player, Nadal the unrelenting physical beast. I'd rather watch skill than brute force and aggression.
Generally, brute force gets a bad name on here.
To be fair, the caf is (irritatingly) full of super-threads on individual players these days. Makes it difficult to do anything other than praise/criticise an individual player, which obviously makes for very boring debate.
You seem to be extremely wound up by all of this by the way. I don't know why.
All that suggests is people talk as much bollocks in a pub watching United as they do on here.
first the "you're missing my point" then the "oh you must be angry, it's only a forum!". Classic lines to use when you have no responses left. I'm not remotely wound up. I'm bored at work, with a can of coke, using this thread to help pass the time, the way i type has nothing to do with my current state of mind. Thanks for your concern though
The problem with genius is that it is so rarely displayed by those who possess it. If I could hand-pick Nani's 10 best performances of a season and decide which fixtures to use them in, we'd win every competition. He is that good on his day.
Here's hoping were having this same debate in two years time, expect this time we are comparing Nani with Ronaldo. Its not impossible. For now though, Nani/Valencia is a much more open topic for conversation.
I'm not remotely wound up. I'm bored at work, with a can of coke, using this thread to help pass the time, the way i type has nothing to do with my current state of mind. Thanks for your concern though
You do seem full of pent up aggressive, waiting to burst. Kind of like Valencia. Let it go man, it's a thing of beauty when aggression is in full flow.
Yeah, right now I'm smashing a colleagues head against the wall because of my sheer anger and frustration at this thread.
Put it this way, if Earth had to play the Martians tomorrow i'd have Nani in my team, purely because the Martians could deal with aggression and brute force, they can't cope with trickery though.
Thats just silly. You can't win a debate on here. Its never happened, ever. Everyone has their own opinion. I have no responses left because I've pretty much exhausted my opinion on the subject.
I'm not remotely wound up. I'm bored at work, with a can of coke, using this thread to help pass the time, the way i type has nothing to do with my current state of mind. Thanks for your concern though
When you calm down, share your tin of coke with him. It's nice to be nice.
Clearly bitter.
If we move away from effectiveness into the aesthetics of the performance then yeah, Nani/Federer will always come out on top.
Of course, you have to balance the joy of watching Nani leaving defenders on their arse for fun with the exquisite frustration of a game where he dribbles up blind alleys or delays crosses until our strikers are all being marked. That's fecking tough to watch.
Before Cina's head explodes I should stress that, over the last couple of seasons, we've been much more likely to see the former than the latter. Maybe not so much this season though.
As for Valencia, there's something about the directness and simplicity of his approach that appeals to me. He makes the creative aspect of football look really straightforward. Which is something not many players can do.
Anyhoo, we're down to intangibles here. You seem to be in agreement with me that there's not much between them. So I'll stop arguing the toss.
These days Nani is a better winger than Ronaldo anyway, because Ronaldo isn't a winger anymore. But that's another argument entirely.
Interesting point. Last season I'd have picked Obertan. Looks a bit like a martian, might have confused them. I guess that makes Obertan world class too.
Yeah I am in agreement, there is very little between them. I love watching them both in full flow. Much like I feel both Federer and Nadal are superb at tennis, but in completely different ways.
Both Valencia and Nani leave defenders on thier arses, one through pure pace and power, the other with trickery and quick feet, though Nani also possess the pace element as well.
Valencia is kind of like a right footed Bale, but my own personal opinion is i'd have Nani in my team before either, though i'd happily have Nani and Valencia as my wing pairing ahead of any other wing pairings in the country.
I don't see any wingers better than Nani out there. Some who are close, some who are on a par, but I don't think anyone can name any single winger better on their day than Nani, and have it categorically agreed with. He really is that good now.
Now you're being ridiculous. They'd know Obertan was a Martian impersonator, because he isn't green, and shoot him with a ray-gun.
Downing?
On a side note, the word "f u n" seems to be censored.
What is this? North Korea?
What is this? North Korea?
Maybe it's just for you? Lets see.
Pogue Mahone isn't much fun to converse with on any matters football related.
Edit: Works for me. Maybe redcafe knows you're a humourless berk who would never need to use the word fun
fun
defenders on their arse for fun
ok, that's just weird...
defenders on their arse for fun
ok, that's just weird...
Again and again and again though, having the exact same debate with various people just so you can tell them they're talking nonsense? I think that's a bit much, I don't think it adds a lot to the forum and I don't imagine people enjoy having their opinion ridiculed, so in that sense it might stop them from voicing their opinion just as freely. I've said it before but I don't particularly like talking about Nani for that very reason, if someone makes one comment they get jumped on. And I'm someone who quite likes their opinion to be challenged so I don't think I'd be the only one feeling that way.
FWIW, I agree with pretty much everything else you've said although I don't think it's Nani's unpredictability that takes him above the rest, I just think it's his ability. Technically and physically he has few matches in his position. His unpredictability's an asset no doubt but one you can find in plenty of wingers. If Valencia had Nani's skill on the ball I think he'd be a better player, without that unpredictability. He's a level below in probably every technical aspect aside from his passing though, and that's what makes Nani better than him for me.
I don't think he ever called him inconsistent he just praised Valencia's consistency over his. And even then, that was after you said he was talking nonsense. It seemed he was making a completely reasonable point that you made out to be outrageous.
There's nothing wrong with it the first few times but do it enough times and it just turns into the Messi thread, and you turn into FranklyVulgar ridiculing anyone who offers an opinion that goes against yours. Repeatedly. Once you've made your stance clear - and you know that stance isn't going to change over the course of the discussion no matter what - then it's basically just you ridiculing someone's opinion while repeating your own. Seems unnecessary when the opinion's as wide held as it is.
He didn't just come in here and start praising Valencia, his comment followed directly on from what his original point about not being one of the best players in his position.
Oh bullshit, "he's not even the best winger at the club". a.k.a "He's not as good as Valencia". Pretty self explanatory, no?
I'll keep saying it, why? Because it's a thread about Nani and every time someone comes in and for no reason at all decides to bring up Valencia and say he's better than him, or make comments about inconsistency etc, I'll argue against that, because I believe none of it to be true.
Anyway, you don't like Nani, what the feck are you doing here?
I don't dislike him either, just so you know! I've just never particularly warmed to him.
Bilbo started off saying that he wasn't one of the best players in his position, then a world class debate ensued. Then he said he's not the best winger in the club. He also said arguably. Saying he wasn't even sure he's the best winger in the club directly follows on from saying he wasn't sure he's one of the best wingers around, he didn't do it for no reason at all.
Bilbo started off saying that he wasn't one of the best players in his position, then a world class debate ensued. Then he said he's not the best winger in the club. He also said arguably. Saying he wasn't even sure he's the best winger in the club directly follows on from saying he wasn't sure he's one of the best wingers around, he didn't do it for no reason at all.
It's still saying he's not as good as Valencia, whatever way you look at it. I'll argue that any day of the week if someone brings it in here, especially if I've nothing to do at work, which happened to be today.
That's nonsense. Martians are famed for their ability to deal with tricky behaviour. You've obviously forgotten Marvin the Martian. You need to brush up your Looney Tunes young man. Nani ain't no Bugs Bunny.
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