Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pogue Mahone said:
It's all very well picking holes in the definition. Nobody has come up with a better alternative. Which either means the phrase is completely pointless and should never be used (which is what i often think) or the mars football match is the definition of choice.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with it being defined as players among the best players in the world? You talk of picking a squad then you're left with the option of having to pick players from particular positions, for example left back, you have to pick at least one, maybe two in the squad, or the Martians would dominate us down that side. But you're only able to pick 4/5 strikers in a squad, are there only 5 World Class strikers out there? After Ronaldo/Messi, who are the other 3? Try narrowing them down. Are those who you don't pick in your squad not World Class? If Rooney doesnt make the squad because there are 5 strikers better than him, but Evra and Cole do because there are no better leftbacks is Evra better than Rooney because he is World Class and Rooney isnt? Who decides they aren't in the squad, and therefore not World Class? You might have Rooney as a backup striker on your bench to face Mars, someone else might have Van Persie instead. Which of them is World Class? Are they both World Class? I'd suggest they are both World Class, but you may not have room for them both in your squad, since a squad is limited.

(All players mentioned are purely examples)
 
ipBprPoq6jZFh.gif


:drool:

Didn't look at Berba once but knew where he was, not bad for a footballer who isn't very intelligent.

Credit to: EL 23/02/12 Manchester United v Ajax | beautifullyred
 
The Neviller said:
What's wrong with it being defined as players among the best players in the world? You talk of picking a squad then you're left with the option of having to pick players from particular positions, for example left back, you have to pick at least one, maybe two in the squad, or the Martians would dominate us down that side. But you're only able to pick 4/5 strikers in a squad, are there only 5 World Class strikers out there? After Ronaldo/Messi, who are the other 3? Try narrowing them down. Are those who you don't pick in your squad not World Class? If Rooney doesnt make the squad because there are 5 strikers better than him, but Evra and Cole do because there are no better leftbacks is Evra better than Rooney because he is World Class and Rooney isnt? Who decides they aren't in the squad, and therefore not World Class? You might have Rooney as a backup striker on your bench to face Mars, someone else might have Van Persie instead. Which of them is World Class? Are they both World Class? I'd suggest they are both World Class, but you may not have room for them both in your squad, since a squad is limited.

(All players mentioned are purely examples)
Click to expand...

Which is where Dion's suggestion comes in.
 
I have a mate at Talkshite & I asked him the 'what do you mean by World class' question.

Apparently, it means a player who would get into any team in the World.

On that basis, Nani would get into Real's team, Barca's team, our team (obviously). If he was Spanish or German he'd get into their teams, hence he's world class.

Same could be said of Vidic & Rooney. Also add Giggs (probably still) and Scholes.

World class.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Which is where Dion's suggestion comes in.
Click to expand...

Which takes it outside the squad area, so why even mention a squad in the first place? If it's an interchangeable squad, where players not selected in the squad to play Mars can still be classed as World Class, because they are as good as those deemed worthy of a place in the squad, then the squad basis becomes completely pointless.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You can say that about Nani. It's just that he's not at his very best as consistently as Robben.

The last time all three of them were on the pitch at the same time, Nani was the best winger on the night.
Click to expand...

Although I agree with your sentiments taking Robben as an example for consistency doesnt seem right considering he has been wank for large parts of this season.
Ribery on the other hand has been pretty damn good at times this season and I'm sure he is one of the best when on form.
Same goes for Nani.
 
The Neviller said:
That question is just as applicable for your squad idea. Who other than Barca's midfield would get into a World squad?
Click to expand...
Bastian Schweinsteiger, Yaya Toure, David Silva and potentially a few others. The idea of basing it around a squad is that there is enough width to allow for more than the best 2-3 players in the world in their position but without just naming every good player.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's all very well picking holes in the definition. Nobody has come up with a better alternative. Which either means the phrase is completely pointless and should never be used (which is what i often think) or the mars football match is the definition of choice.
Click to expand...

It's a pretty pointless phrase because the population it includes is very subjective.

Personally while the earth sounds good in theory, I don't know how I'd convince myself that Luis Enrique is world class and Nani isn't. I haven't gotten down to making an earth squad but things like that make it pointless.

I never really use the phrase but if I had to attach a meaning to it I'd simply consider it to mean someone who is top drawer and leave it as simple (and lame sounding) as that. Going by that I'd have Vidic, Rooney and Nani as world class for our team which is at least somemeaningful praise because they are imo the best in our team and none are getting chosen with any due care to who else plays in their position. It's better than having evra as world class because of a lack of choice.
 
Christ I didn't expect it to generate this much debate. Dion's amendment to my definition is certainly an improvement.

I saw a quote from a West Ham player describing Rob Green as World Class yesterday. Its over-use as a term is a slight irritation of mine in the football world these days.
 
The world class debate has floated around so many times, nobody will ever agree on it. I prefer the term 'great player', feck whether they'd walk into any team or be in a World XI

Nani is a great player, simple as. And nobody has managed to name a winger that much better than him. Robben at his peak, probably, but he ain't at his peak.
 
By the way, based on the last few seasons, Di Maria would definitely be above Ribery & Robben. He's probably the only one I'd put on the same level as Nani, despite being a despicable shit.
 
Cina said:
The world class debate has floated around so many times, nobody will ever agree on it. I prefer the term 'great player', feck whether they'd walk into any team or be in a World XI

Nani is a great player, simple as. And nobody has managed to name a winger that much better than him. Robben at his peak, probably, but he ain't at his peak.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I meant. If I pushed to define it (although I don't think I ever use it) it would be the players who I think are top notch. The likes of Van Perise, Vidic, Rooney, Nani, Silva, Toure etc in the premier league. Definitions based on players per position are unnecessarily limiting IMO.
 
Cina said:
By the way, based on the last few seasons, Di Maria would definitely be above Ribery & Robben. He's probably the only one I'd put on the same level as Nani, despite being a despicable shit.
Click to expand...

You're only saying that because you've not seen as much of Ribery, I reckon. He's still great.
 
Brwned said:
You're only saying that because you've not seen as much of Ribery, I reckon. He's still great.
Click to expand...

I've seen quite a bit of Bayern in the Bundesliga this year, because I enjoy them. Personally I've never regarded Ribery as that great a player so maybe I'm biased here. I certainly don't think hes been *that* good.
 
Ah, well then it's not bias it's just personal preference. You're not the only one who doesn't really think Ribery's all that, maybe people just don't like his style of wing play (I suppose he's like a much better version of Hleb). I think he's been great, as good as I've ever seen him.
 
Brwned said:
Ah, well then it's not bias it's just personal preference. You're not the only one who doesn't really think Ribery's all that, maybe people just don't like his style of wing play (I suppose he's like a much better version of Hleb). I think he's been great, as good as I've ever seen him.
Click to expand...

Heh, Hleb is certainly a good example. Though yeah, I've never been a great fan of his style for some reason. I do agree though that he's having a very good season.
 
I'm not convinced that Nani is even the best winger at his club. Valencia is arguably under-rated on this forum.
 
Bilbo said:
I'm not convinced that Nani is even the best winger at his club. Valencia is arguably under-rated on this forum.
Click to expand...

Valencia is very highly rated on this forum. I think he's brilliant, he's the 2nd best winger in the PL after Nani and has definitely been better than him for long parts of the season (though injuries havent helped). But really I can't comprehend how people would think he has the talent that Nani, Di Maria and Robben have.

It's annoying for me the fact that one of them always seems to be injured at a time. They've barely played together this season. We'd be so devastating with both of them on form.
 
Cina said:
Valencia is very highly rated on this forum. I think he's brilliant, he's the 2nd best winger in the PL after Nani and has definitely been better than him for long parts of the season (though injuries havent helped). But really I can't comprehend how people would think he has the talent that Nani, Di Maria and Robben have.

It's annoying for me the fact that one of them always seems to be injured at a time. They've barely played together this season. We'd be so devastating with both of them on form.
Click to expand...
Talent is subjective though. I think Valencia is better at certain things than Nani is. Crucial things. He probably doesn't have the same natural ability with the ball at his feet that Nani does, but he has better pitch awareness IMO.

I'm not putting Nani down here. He is a very good player and yes it would be great to see them both in the team more often. I do still find him somewhat frustrating though.
 
Bilbo said:
Talent is subjective though. I think Valencia is better at certain things than Nani is. Crucial things. He probably doesn't have the same natural ability with the ball at his feet that Nani does, but he has better pitch awareness IMO.

I'm not putting Nani down here. He is a very good player and yes it would be great to see them both in the team more often. I do still find him somewhat frustrating though.
Click to expand...

Valencia was frustrating at the start of the season. Imo valencia is a good player but a good pacey defender can mark him. He has his limitations.
 
Bilbo said:
Talent is subjective though. I think Valencia is better at certain things than Nani is. Crucial things. He probably doesn't have the same natural ability with the ball at his feet that Nani does, but he has better pitch awareness IMO.

I'm not putting Nani down here. He is a very good player and yes it would be great to see them both in the team more often. I do still find him somewhat frustrating though.
Click to expand...

So Valenia being better at certain things means he's a better player? Solid logic.

Why must this always turn into a debate about the 2 anyway. We're blessed to have them both. Stop fecking comparing them.
 
Bilbo said:
I'm not convinced that Nani is even the best winger at his club. Valencia is arguably under-rated on this forum.
Click to expand...

That's mental. Valencia is currently in better form, but he's definitely not as good, or has the potential of Nani.
 
Nani's easily one of the best when he's on form, a modern winger who can do anything and get a goal out of nothing. Problem is, looking at the past 11 months or so, how often has he been? Ended last season weakly, started this season well, but he's been off the boil for a while now, even before his injury.
 
Hectic said:
That's mental. Valencia is currently in better form, but he's definitely not as good, or has the potential of Nani.
Click to expand...
Its not mental. Comparing Nani to David Bellion would be mental.
 
Cina said:
So Valenia being better at certain things means he's a better player? Solid logic.

Why must this always turn into a debate about the 2 anyway. We're blessed to have them both. Stop fecking comparing them.
Click to expand...
It depends what you consider as the best strengths for a winger. Everyone has their own preference. Nobody is wrong.

Nani blows Valencia out of the water on those days he has when he seems unplayable. It doesn't happen very often though. Over the course of a season I personally prefer Valencia's consistency and crossing ability.

Ideally of course we get a run of games with Nani on the left and Valencia on the right. Then we get the best of both worlds.
 
Nani certainly has a higher bar in terms of performance to reach, but he doesnt reach that mark consistantly.

Valencia on the other hand seems to hit his peak alot more regularly, especially from his performances this season.

If nani hit 10/10 every game he would be top 5 in the world IMO.

But unfortunately he struggles to get it right every game, but boy are we blessed to have both, fergie did a real good job picking valencia out at wigan, on his current form we would have to pay 30m+ at this rate.
 
Cina said:
Marginally.

He's been better than Rooney too, does that mean he's a better player than him?
Click to expand...
Rooney has 17 goals & 4 assists in the PL. Not exactly a terrible season so far by anyones standards.

Nani has 6 goals and 8 assists in 22 appearances (1809 minutes). Valencia has 2 goals and 10 assists in 17 appearances (1403 minutes).
 
Bilbo said:
Rooney has 17 goals & 4 assists in the PL. Not exactly a terrible season so far by anyones standards.

Nani has 6 goals and 8 assists in 22 appearances (1809 minutes). Valencia has 2 goals and 10 assists in 17 appearances (1403 minutes).
Click to expand...

Hardly my point. Pogue said that you had a solid argument because Valencia has had a better season. Pogue thinks Valencia has been our 2nd best player this season after Carrick, so going by that logic, he's better than Rooney too.

Also, the stats are pretty much neck and neck there, so I don't see your point.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Who's been better this season overall? Valencia.

Once we accept that, Bilbo's claim doesn't seem mental at all.
Click to expand...

Behave Pogue.

Who was better last season when we were all calling for Nani to be named PFA player of the year? I don't think anyone has ever suggested Valencia should be deserving of this award.

I'm a massive fan of Tony V, he's a beast when he's on form, but like a lot of players, he looks awful when he isn't. Their bottom level of performance is similar though, although Valencia only has one foot. Nani can look terrible also when off form, but has that ability to pull something unexpected out of the hat. Valencia doesn't have that really. At their top level, Nani is superior, simply because he's unpredictible. He can do things that people don't expect. Valencia can be a bit one dimensional in that respect, although when he's firing, what he does is very, very effective.

We're lucky to have them both, both wingers but with entirely different styles, and they compliment each other really well, but it's pretty clear Nani has superior ability.
 
Cina said:
Hardly my point. Pogue said that you had a solid argument because Valencia has had a better season. Pogue thinks Valencia has been our 2nd best player this season after Carrick, so going by that logic, he's better than Rooney too.

Also, the stats are pretty much neck and neck there, so I don't see your point.
Click to expand...
I don't think you remember what my point was in fairness. I actually like Nani. My point was that I don't think he is one of the best players in his position in the world at this moment, and arguably not even the best player in his position at his club.

Its not me saying Nani is shit, or Valencia is amazing. Just that my personal preference is for a winger that players with his head up. I find Nani to have that C Ronaldo trait of being too greedy with the ball at times, but without being as good.
 
Bilbo said:
I don't think you remember what my point was in fairness. I actually like Nani. My point was that I don't think he is one of the best players in his position in the world at this moment, and arguably not even the best player in his position at his club.

Its not me saying Nani is shit, or Valencia is amazing. Just that my personal preference is for a winger that players with his head up. I find Nani to have that C Ronaldo trait of being too greedy with the ball at times, but without being as good.
Click to expand...

And your point is ludicrous.
 
Bilbo said:
I don't think you remember what my point was in fairness. I actually like Nani. My point was that I don't think he is one of the best players in his position in the world at this moment, and arguably not even the best player in his position at his club.

Its not me saying Nani is shit, or Valencia is amazing. Just that my personal preference is for a winger that players with his head up. I find Nani to have that C Ronaldo trait of being too greedy with the ball at times, but without being as good.
Click to expand...

I completely get your original point, it was pretty obvious. You think Valencia is better than him. I never for a second incenuated that you think he's shit.

The Rooney comment was to do with Pogue, not you.

And you posted the stats, not me.

People on this forum have a huge tendency to go 'eh, you're missing my point' despite clearly not missing it, it's pretty fecking obvious.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.