He was MOTM because of the goal + assist. I think Vermaalen did a good job keeping Valencia quiet, as opposed to Nani, who wrecked havoc on the other side all game long
Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances
- Thread starter Kelvin
- Start date
- Status
He was MOTM because of the goal + assist. I think Vermaalen did a good job keeping Valencia quiet, as opposed to Nani, who wrecked havoc on the other side all game long
Yes but Vermaalen is their one really decent defender.
But I don't think Nani wastes that many good openings anymore. His decision making is very good largely, and against Arsenal he was much better than the very same Rooney in this aspect. Prior to the Arsenal goal, for instance, Wayne should've picked out Welbeck, not tried to thread Rafael through at the right hand side.
Nani got a lot of stick for shooting from a tight angle when in fact both Rooney and Welbeck was rather passive to the situation, and there wasn't that much on for him. Other than that, in the second half he created three clear-cut chances for us, one of which were due to a brilliantly disguised through ball for Evra, from a rather great shooting position. Unselfish as you'd like.
A while back, Nani was more decisive, and Valencia was more ponderous; now, that's reversed. These things happen and, eventually, both will get it right more consistently.
Nani is more of a flair player than valencia. always takes more risks or tries the more difficult option. That is what makes him a special player because he has the ability to pull it off. I dont think he'l ever be as consistent with the ball or the retention of it as valencia for this very reason. It still shouldnt be used as a reason to put him down though as he's one of the few at the club capable of pulling out match winning moments on his own.
Also, judging the performances of wingers solely on the assist/goal column is something i'v never believed in.
Also, judging the performances of wingers solely on the assist/goal column is something i'v never believed in.
some talks he my have suffer a broken metatarsal 
bollox if true. when is young back?
/
You are fecking hypocrite, aren't you?
At their best, Nani is a better player. But Valencia is more consistent, at least lately that is the case. Flair doesn't necessarily mean 'better'; simplicity is a very very underrated thing in football. In fact, it was Valencia who pulled out match winning moments against Arsenal, not Nani's flair. Ronaldo used to have lots of flair but little end product, until he cut the crap out and became more direct and effective. Sometimes Nani does a bit too much, and sometimes when he's beaten the defender his final ball lets him down. But no doubt, when he's on, he's unstoppable.
I never said it did. My point was that nani being a flair player who tries to to the unexpected and takes more risks per se, will always be more prone to losing the ball than valencia. I dont think it should be held against him though because its stuff like that which makes him a matchwinner.
Valencia is a very good player, no doubt. Its no slight on him that nani's the better winger when on song, he does what he does very well and is productive. So is nani though. He was brilliant in the arsenal game. Had a much better game overall than valencia but valencia came up with the goal and assist. Nani could have had 2-3 assists though had others taken their chances. Its fine margins for a winger. a very good game that'l be quickly forgotten because he has no assists to show for it.
fwiw, nani has cut out a lot of his dallying on the ball in the last couple of seasons. Specially so last year when he played a very direct style. Beat the man and put in a dangerous cross 1st time if you like. But, with players like nani, they should be encouraged to do more than just put in crosses. It'd be a waste of his fantastic talent. I do think SAF does that actually which is why you see nani roaming all over the pitch at times. He's good enough to make an impact from out wide or from central areas.
Careful now. There's three syllables in "hypocrite". I'm not sure you're ready to use long words like that.
No he's not, he just looks like he is.
You appear to have been watching the Nani of 3 years ago.
I disagree. If you look at the last 2 seasons, Valencia had his up and downs as well (some was due to his injury tbf). This season, he wasnt playing that well at all and completely off form, just started to hit some form. He couldnt cross, he couldnt beat his man, he looked lost. Over the last 24 months, Nani might have been one of the best performers in the League
It's utter bollocks to say Valencia is a more consistent player, like I said, he looks like he is in games because he goes for the easy option 9 out of 10 times. Either play the pass or try get himself a yard of space on his predictable yet strangely difficult to stop right foot to ping a cross in (usually good ones, to be fair). Nani on the other hand will rarely play it safe, instead of going for the yard of space he actually tries to beat his man completely and therefore can create better chances, he's also probably the best player in the entire league at beating his man, but that doesn't always work, you can't constantly (or "consistently") beat the defender every time, unless they're unbelievably shite, so when it doesn't work out it can look like he's being a bit wasteful.
As was pointed out above, Nani could've had 2 or 3 assists bar some really poor misses, and a goal bar a really good save, but because Valencia got a goal and assist (the latter after Nani got injured) he was considered the better player yesterday, which wouldn't be true if Nani hadn't been taken off.
Overall in the last 2 years we have had no attacking player as consistently good as Nani, Rooney included.
As was pointed out above, Nani could've had 2 or 3 assists bar some really poor misses, and a goal bar a really good save, but because Valencia got a goal and assist (the latter after Nani got injured) he was considered the better player yesterday, which wouldn't be true if Nani hadn't been taken off.
Overall in the last 2 years we have had no attacking player as consistently good as Nani, Rooney included.
I just had to split this sentence in half to show how bizarre a comment that was.
So what you actually mean is, "Valencia is in better form these past few weeks".
I think it's unfair on Valencia to say he was MOTM on the basis of being lucky enough to get a goal and an assist, when Nani wasn't. He played very very well. Caused Arsenal's best defender all sorts of problems and put a whole series of great crosses into the box.
Nani also played very well but wasn't quite as effective, despite playing against Djouro and some child with a dodgy 'tache. He did have a good game though, just not quite at the same level as Valencia. Close though. A lot closer than the last few games. Valencia's been our most in form winger for a few weeks now.
The last time they were both absolutely on fire was Fulham away. Such a shame that Nani's injury means we won't see a repeat of that against the dippers.
Nani also played very well but wasn't quite as effective, despite playing against Djouro and some child with a dodgy 'tache. He did have a good game though, just not quite at the same level as Valencia. Close though. A lot closer than the last few games. Valencia's been our most in form winger for a few weeks now.
The last time they were both absolutely on fire was Fulham away. Such a shame that Nani's injury means we won't see a repeat of that against the dippers.
I thought Valencia was quiet compared to Nani, one piece of brilliance though and obviously he scored the header too. It was strangely enough similar to a Nani performance where even when he isn't playing well, he creates a goal.
No-one claimed he was "lucky".
But of course goals and assists win games Pogue, how often are players like Rooney handed the MOTM for scoring a brace when a Carrick or Giggs has easily been the best player on the pitch. I've also seen games where Giggs has been as wasteful as ever, with a 60% pass completion rate, but a couple of great assists have won him MOTM:
Valencia wasn't "lucky", he was very good and effective. That doesn't change the fact that Nani was so good in the first half that Arsenal subbed the full back at half time. Some of Nani's interplay was a joy to watch against Arsenal.
In the EPL, he is probably in the top 3 as well
Pogue, I never said Valencia was "lucky", he definitely had a good game and has been playing better than Nani recently, but he wasn't better in the overall context of the game yesterday, Nani wasn't less effective at all, he made one stupid shot from an angle but other than that his crossing and passing into the box were pretty much spot on.
You know what I mean. Implying that Valencia did nowt apart from the assist and the goal.
As for Djourou being subbed off at half time, I'd have that as just as much due to Djourou being shite as it was to Nani being good. Swings and roundabouts.
As for Djourou being subbed off at half time, I'd have that as just as much due to Djourou being shite as it was to Nani being good. Swings and roundabouts.
Nani was much more involved in our good play than Valencia too, with 41 attempted passes compared to Valencia's 25, despite playing 20 minutes less.
Hopefully this post will make a few of them understand what we are talking about:
I really don't, I said the goal and assist were the main reason he was getting MotM, I didn't say he did nothing else other than that. I agree that he played well, got good crosses in and had a key contribution in our attacking play.
I've never found stats to be the defining factor in player performances, I am after all arguing the fact that Valencia was better because of his goal and assist, but that's an impressive amount of passes, and stats like that should help put to bed the idea that he isn't a team player and doesn't make good decisions. I would think the Nani of old barely ever got a pass amount that high.
Nani was better than valencia on the night. created much better chances and was definitely more involved in our buildup. almost all our play towards the end of the first half was through the left.
Considering nani was up against djourou while valencia had vermaelen to contend with, it isnt a slight on valencia. Just that the assist and goal shouldnt really cloud who the better player was.
Considering nani was up against djourou while valencia had vermaelen to contend with, it isnt a slight on valencia. Just that the assist and goal shouldnt really cloud who the better player was.
it is worth noting that Valencia was playing in his best position and Nani wasn't.
Oh dear. That old chesnut.
So far this season has Nani looked a better player when picked in his "best position"?
So far this season has Nani looked a better player when picked in his "best position"?
Me neither, I just wanted to show that as we said, Nani was better at the stuff that went in-between. It doesn't take anything away from Valencia, I didn't have Nani in my top 3 either, but he did have an excellent game and was so involved in all our good play.
Do you not agree?
Yeah I disagree with that too, Nani is just fine on the left.
I also think Nani gets involved in the build-up play more too when he plays left side, and the stats seem to agree with me.
Did I say otherwise?
No. As per my edit. All of Nani's very worst performances this season have been on the right. The Arsenal game was a very good performance (as you keep pointing out). One of his best this season. On the left wing.
Reply to the rest of the post, I actually had a point.
Chelsea?
I always find it funny that you straight away pick up on things like this and just ignore earlier posts that I debate with you on.
Well you're sort of basing that "point" on the fact that he made so many passes in a specific game. Anyway, we do agree on everything else
The Fulham game was a great example of him playing on the left and getting heavily involved centrally. It was a bit like Silva, Modric or Nasri in the same position. That was one of his best games ever for United IMO.
Well you're sort of basing that "point" on the fact that he made so many passes in a specific game. Anyway, we do agree on everything else
No I'm not, I'm basing it over a number of games.
IMO Fulham(A) has been Nani's best performance this season.
I reckon he should stay back after training with Giggzy and practise crossing like a golfer practises chipping onto the green.
- Status