Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances

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Cina said:
Well that's wrong. He nearly scored bar a fine save, got clean through for another poor shot, set up Welbeck twice I think, set up Valencia's horror shot (I think), played a magic through ball to Evra who was clean through. He created more chances than Valencia did yesterday, his just weren't converted, and he arguably should've scored himself but his finishing wasn't at its best.

You can't dismiss his performance because it didn't involve an assist or goal (which we're very used to normally). He was definitely our best player in the first half, not as good in the 2nd and then he got the injury.

Brwned, fair play, it takes balls to make a statement like that, and from previous comments in this thread, other people on this board clearly feel the same way about him as you do (simon being the prime example) but they won't admit to it and just give him completely unjustified critiscism on his performances. I for one feel the opposite, he IS my favourite player, I've loved him since day one and always (at times I thought hopelessly) expected him to turn into a great player.

I think along with Rooney he's our best, comfortably. Well, Vidic too I guess, in a different way.
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Fair enough.

Btw I will admit feeling the same way Brwned does. Hence my saying "there's something in that." He articulated it very well.

Just feel, as ever, the frustration is actually born out of how good he is. He should do more. He is capable of so much more.
 
Can't really say I agree with those who say his final ball yesterday was lacking.

It might be true for the first half, but in the second half he set up a glorious chance for Valencia with a great piece of wingplay, he was inches away from finding Welbeck's head with another cross, and played through Evra with a fantastic pass. In addition, it was he who played in Giggs when he crossed it for Valencia, and his approach play was terrific throughout.
 
Cina said:
Well that's wrong. He nearly scored bar a fine save, got clean through for another poor shot, set up Welbeck twice I think, set up Valencia's horror shot (I think), played a magic through ball to Evra who was clean through. He created more chances than Valencia did yesterday, his just weren't converted, and he arguably should've scored himself but his finishing wasn't at its best.

You can't dismiss his performance because it didn't involve an assist or goal (which we're very used to normally). He was definitely our best player in the first half, not as good in the 2nd and then he got the injury.

Brwned, fair play, it takes balls to make a statement like that, and from previous comments in this thread, other people on this board clearly feel the same way about him as you do (simon being the prime example) but they won't admit to it and just give him completely unjustified critiscism on his performances. I for one feel the opposite, he IS my favourite player, I've loved him since day one and always (at times I thought hopelessly) expected him to turn into a great player.

I think along with Rooney he's our best, comfortably. Well, Vidic too I guess, in a different way.
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Not this season. Last season (in fact, for the whole of 2010) much was made of his incredible productivity, either scoring or assisting in almost every game he played.

That productivity tailed off towards the end of last season and we've only seen short spells of it since. Bearing in mind his age, you're expecting an improvement, year on year. I was expecting him to be absolutely sensational this season and he hasn't quite delivered. This isn't the end of the world. He's still a very good player. It does put a lot of the hyperbole into perspective. He's STILL a work in progress and needs to improve certain aspects of his game to be compared with the class of winger he's been compared with in this thread or be talked about as the best player in our squad.

Having said all that, I thought he had a good game yesterday. A big improvement on some disappointing recent performances. Here's hoping he kicks on from there and justifies the original thread title.
 
You really sound like you don't like the lad Pogue, at least it reads that way, or a struggle to fully appreciate him.
 
It's a matter of opinion and I respect yours, but it's a fairly negative focused assessment on Nani overall. It tends to be the case. I'd disagree with some points but then that comes down to how we see and judge Nani, rather than anything about your post being incorrect.
 
In fairness, that post is mostly true, he hasn't done it like I was expecting him to either, flashes of brilliance but considering just how consistent he was last year it hasn't quite clicked like that yet. What I will say though is that when he HAS had really good games, he's looked better than he ever did before, the City and Chelsea games earlier in the season in particular spring to mind.

I'll happily compare him to Rooney seeing as he's probably more consistent than Rooney is, just as talented and right now we actually appear to be more reliant on him, because we're constantly getting the ball to him to produce something. And I still fully think he's the Premierships best winger, and there are few in Europe as good as him, he's right up there with the likes of Robben and Di Maria.

Hectic is right though, you do sound like you've never particularly liked the chap.
 
Pretty good summary Pogue - and like you mentioned, clearly alot of perspective is required as the majority of the players in the world ONLY peak during their late twenties (Zidane, Figo etc.)! Not everyone can be a Messi, Ronaldo etc.

Nani certainly has time on his side, though the most worrying aspect definitely isn't developing his footballing ability (which is up there in the world class bracket for sure) but more his maturity, temperament and more importantly footballing brain (consistently making the right decision) and some players never fully develops that side of their game tbh.
 
He actually seems like a very nice, humble bloke. I've absolutely nothing against him, personally (not to mention I've never met him!)

He's definitely annoyed me at times in the past with his antics on the pitch. The fannying around and the play-acting. He seems to be cutting both of these out of his game, though. So, no, there's nothing I dislike or get annoyed by much these days other than what he does with the football. Which is how any footballer should be judged, surely?
 
All of what you've mentioned above have improved immensely in recent times. His maturity and temperament on the pitch especially is just so much better than the theatrics and nonsense we used to have to put up with from him a few years ago. He's still branded a "diver" despite having not done so at all in the last 12 months (I think).

His footballing brain isn't perfect, of course, but he's way less selfish now, he does still have a tendency to make the entirely wrong deciaion, his silly shot from an angle yesterday springs to mind, but 8 out of 10 times now he seems to play the right ball. There's also nothing wrong with him taking long shots, considering how good he is at them compared to anyone else in our team.

EDIT: Fair enough Pogue, you do seem overly negative on here at times though. Maybe I'm overly positive (rare thing for me eh?).
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He actually seems like a very nice, humble bloke. I've absolutely nothing against him, personally (not to mention I've never met him!)

He's definitely annoyed me at times in the past with his antics on the pitch. The fannying around and the play-acting. He seems to be cutting both of these out of his game, though. So, no, there's nothing I dislike or get annoyed by much these days other than what he does with the football. Which is how any footballer should be judged, surely?
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That's pretty much how I feel. He's one of our best and most important players but with the ability he has he could be doing more. But him at 7/10 is still a country mile better than most wingers in the league.
 
Bit harsh. I don't think Nani's a work in progress, he's been no less consistent than Rooney who certainly isn't a work in progress either. There's not that much that Nani needs to improve on, he's already one of the best wingers in the world. Our team isn't perfect clearly and at times I don't think our attacking players have the platform to work on which other 'consistent' players have week in and week out, that's not to say that the players have never had the platform at all, because they clearly have like yesterday.

This also puts into perspective how good someone like Van Persie has been this season considering he doesn't always have that platform with his team, he's probably player of the year at the moment in the league for me.

Edit: To add to that, it seems a lot of people want Nani to be more a functional player in the sense that he should do the simple thing and put the cross in. Players like Nani should be encouraged to do something out of the ordinary, if they were restricted to just always crossing the ball then they'd just become good at best wingers. Nani doing things out of the ordinary is what makes him special, e.g. the confidence and ability to do that skill vs Arsenal a couple years ago, then on instinct, go on the outside and fool the other defender and then finally putting the ball in. Many times, he goes on the inside and outside and fans would want him to do the simple cross or pass but it's when he fakes, he leaves the opposition for dead. He should be encouraged to do more of this than be more of a functional player. Not only that but he does mix it up, he does play short passes into Evra and Rooney like he did against Arsenal.
 
He's certainly regressed a bit from last season when he was by far and away our best attacking player over the course of a season, I'm not really sure why but he doesn't seem to be getting the ball, beating his man and just whipping it in first time like he did a lot last season. He doesn't tend to do this as much when he's on the left anyways due to his left footed cross being a bit worse but he wasn't even doing it on the right.

Whilst his crossing hasn't been as good as normal I think his one touch passing has been great, especially when he's partnered with an attacking fullback on his side. Look at it yesterday, we basically just got runners to play off of him as their defenders couldn't get near him.

He'll soon get back to what he was last season though, his very best performances have been as good if not better than they have ever been, he's just not done it as consistently as before.
 
Aint gota Kalou said:
He's certainly regressed a bit from last season when he was by far and away our best attacking player over the course of a season, I'm not really sure why but he doesn't seem to be getting the ball, beating his man and just whipping it in first time like he did a lot last season. He doesn't tend to do this as much when he's on the left anyways due to his left footed cross being a bit worse but he wasn't even doing it on the right.

Whilst his crossing hasn't been as good as normal I think his one touch passing has been great, especially when he's partnered with an attacking fullback on his side. Look at it yesterday, we basically just got runners to play off of him as their defenders couldn't get near him.

He'll soon get back to what he was last season though, his very best performances have been as good if not better than they have ever been, he's just not done it as consistently as before.
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Agreed. For me, his best performance of the season was against Fulham. In that game he wasn't just beating his man and whipping in crosses, he dropping deep, linking up play and tearing them apart with his passing and movement as much as usual strength - dribbling.

When he puts it all together, as he did then, you get a glimpse of how good he can really be. Which is why it's frustrating to watch him when he reverts to playing with his head down again.

I should stress, once again, that I don't think he played poorly against Arsenal. Play like that every week and I'd be perfectly happy - even though nothing quite came off for him in the final third on the day. On any other day a performance like that could easily get him an assist or three.
 
I thought he played ok yesterday, getting past his man seems to come easily and I like that in a player. However his crossing let him down and quite a few of them never made it past the first defender. What is the point in doing all the hard work of beating your man then only to spunk the cross? I like Nani when he is on song (one of the most exciting players in the league) but too often this season when he has got into good positions he has let himself down... and a player of his quality should be more ruthless.
 
Stookie said:
I thought he played ok yesterday, getting past his man seems to come easily and I like that in a player. However his crossing let him down and quite a few of them never made it past the first defender. What is the point in doing all the hard work of beating your man then only to spunk the cross? I like Nani when he is on song (one of the most exciting players in the league) but too often this season when he has got into good positions he has let himself down... and a player of his quality should be more ruthless.
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A wide player is expected to set up a few chances and fluff a few, every wide player in the world is the same in that aspect, like someone already mentioned they get remembered for the chances that were put away, unfortunately for Nani yesterday the chancees he created were wasted, i thought he was great, a few times he could have done better but to constantly beat the full back as easily as he done, you can't ask for much more. The one chance that annoyed me was the one he played across goal to nobody, caught in 2 minds perhaps? In the 2nd he set up 2 of our best chances. If he keeps playing this way I wont complain, as the goals and assists will come.
 
Orton said:
A wide player is expected to set up a few chances and fluff a few, every wide player in the world is the same in that aspect, like someone already mentioned they get remembered for the chances that were put away, unfortunately for Nani yesterday the chancees he created were wasted, i thought he was great, a few times he could have done better but to constantly beat the full back as easily as he done, you can't ask for much more. The one chance that annoyed me was the one he played across goal to nobody, caught in 2 minds perhaps? In the 2nd he set up 2 of our best chances. If he keeps playing this way I wont complain, as the goals and assists will come.
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I believe that was actually a shot, tried to curl it round the keeper from a tight angle. Should've played the ball to Welbeck for that one. Honestly though, other than that I thought his decision making was spot on.
 
What he improved over the years is the level of poor performances. 2 years ago, when he had a bad day or bad spell, he was very poor, couldnt get anything right and it was painful to watch. Nowadays, even if he has a "poor" game, he keeps a certain standard and is doing alright.

Over the last 20 months, he has been our best and most consistent attacking player
 
Cina said:
I believe that was actually a shot, tried to curl it round the keeper from a tight angle. Should've played the ball to Welbeck for that one. Honestly though, other than that I thought his decision making was spot on.
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Yep just like Welbeck shouldve passed to nani after he rounded the keeper
 
I really hope someone makes a Nani-cam from yesterday's match, he made great decisions all day and was a crucial part of most of our good play. On another day he'd have had at least 2 assists through better finishing.

I honestly don't understand the levels of perfection some of you expect from Nani and Rooney.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
Exactly, rarely does a player make every single "right" decision in a game, unless his name is Xavi.

Welbeck's was worse for me, he had zero chance of scoring.
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Although he did, at least, hit the target.

Anyway, seems a bit pointless to be analysing indivdual decisions from either player in microscopic detail. I thought they both played very well. More of the same please.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Although he did, at least, hit the target.
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He hit Szczesny with a shot I'm not even certain was on target. Was an awful decision.

Pogue Mahone said:
Anyway, seems a bit pointless to be analysing indivdual decisions from either player in microscopic detail. I thought they both played very well. More of the same please.
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That was my point exactly. I was simply using Wellbeck to show that every player makes a wrong decision now and then, obviously.

I thought both were superb.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
I honestly don't understand the levels of perfection some of you expect from Nani and Rooney.
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Inevitable really, they're our best players after all and a lot of the time if they don't deliver good performances we struggle. On the other hand when the likes of Valencia and Carrick play really well, it comes as more of a surprise to some people because not as much is expected of them.

Put it this way, when the ball goes to Nani, I instantly expect him to do something really good with it, with other players I don't really expect the same, for the most part.
 
Nani's bottom level is miles higher now. It's underrated just how good is ball retention is, and how much of an influence he has on our attacking play.

He's still one of our most important players when he's not bang on form in that the link up play between himself, Rooney and Welbeck is integral to the way we play. Definitely a world class player, whatever that means. He's very consistent for a winger of his type but, if he ever does become more consistent, I don't think it's too outrageous to say that he'd be as good as Ronaldo.

Though we've seen better, that was a really good performance from Nani yesterday. He really is a much more mature footballer now, and he's still about as exciting as it gets. The way he just destroys his man is a thing to behold.
 
KingEric7 said:
He's very consistent for a winger of his type but, if he ever does become more consistent, I don't think it's too outrageous to say that he'd be as good as Ronaldo.
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I admit I am probably a little unfair in my assessment of Nani from time to time, which is a backhanded compliment, as I have said, because he is obviously so talented. But I do think that is a little OTT.
 
Guybrush Threepwood said:
I really hope someone makes a Nani-cam from yesterday's match, he made great decisions all day and was a crucial part of most of our good play. On another day he'd have had at least 2 assists through better finishing.

I honestly don't understand the levels of perfection some of you expect from Nani and Rooney.
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Yep, you can't really ask for much more than that from a winger. Had he not had the better output in the second half, fair enough, but as it is on another day Valencia, Evra and Welbeck would have put those goals away and we'd be talking about how unbelievable his end product was yesterday. Fine margins. Things like his passing and interplay aren't even being talked about here, yet no other player on the pitch was close to his ability on the ball yesterday, such is the ridiculous standards he has now.
 
Hectic said:
Yep, you can't really ask for much more than that from a winger. Had he not had the better output in the second half, fair enough, but as it is on another day Valencia, Evra and Welbeck would have put those goals away and we'd be talking about how unbelievable his end product was yesterday. Fine margins. Things like his passing and interplay aren't even being talked about here, yet no other player on the pitch was close to his ability on the ball yesterday, such is the ridiculous standards he has now.
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Come on now. That's exactly the sort of hyperbole that means I feel obliged to keep posting in this thread as a reality check. That's just a crazy thing to claim when our winger on the opposite flank out-performed him on the day. There's a good reason Valencia was voted MOTM by a landslide. He was our best player. Unless "ability on the ball" has some kind of strange meaning that has nothing to do with playing football?
 
I think Nani is progressing well and his game has improved overall. However there is still some crosses which are overhit and some decision making in the box is off the mark.

He is very talented and i hope that the injury sustained is not too serious.
 
For me he's still incredibly frustrating to watch, even at his best. I still think he's inconsistent, not over the course of a season but within the games themselves. He always looks dangerous, always creates chances and very rarely leaves a game without an assist or goal. It's just that for all the great positions he gets himself in, he'll make some bizarre decisions that will signal the end of some excellent moves.

I reckon the players have come to accept that he's so ridiculously talented that you can afford to let him do his thing and forgive him for his strange decisions, all in the knowledge that he's almost certain to produce something special over the 90 minutes.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Come on now. That's exactly the sort of hyperbole that means I feel obliged to keep posting in this thread as a reality check. That's just a crazy thing to claim when our winger on the opposite flank out-performed him on the day. There's a good reason Valencia was voted MOTM by a landslide. He was our best player. Unless "ability on the ball" has some kind of strange meaning that has nothing to do with playing football?
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Valencia won MOTM by a landslide because he scored and created a goal. He didn't win it because he was better than Nani at all that went in between, which I believe was Hectic's point.
 
I dont think Valencia was that great yesterday, he's had better performances over 90 minutes. Goal and an outstanding assist though, he produced.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Come on now. That's exactly the sort of hyperbole that means I feel obliged to keep posting in this thread as a reality check. That's just a crazy thing to claim when our winger on the opposite flank out-performed him on the day. There's a good reason Valencia was voted MOTM by a landslide. He was our best player. Unless "ability on the ball" has some kind of strange meaning that has nothing to do with playing football?
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If you think he outperformed Nani than it's you who is quite clearly not talking about football. He was more productive yes but overall he didn't outperform him at all. Both were pure class yesterday, Nani was just a bit unlucky.

Btw Rooney was very good as well. Dont understand why he got so much slack for his performance
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Come on now. That's exactly the sort of hyperbole that means I feel obliged to keep posting in this thread as a reality check. That's just a crazy thing to claim when our winger on the opposite flank out-performed him on the day. There's a good reason Valencia was voted MOTM by a landslide. He was our best player. Unless "ability on the ball" has some kind of strange meaning that has nothing to do with playing football?
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Valencia's MOM for me was more an indicator of his end product, a goal and a assist than him having a great game overall for me. Vermaelen did a very job for most of the game. nani had the better overall game, specially the first half. But, valencia came up with the goods when required.

EDIt- should have read the posts just above me. 2 posters saying precisely the same thing..
 
Simon Adebesi said:
I admit I am probably a little unfair in my assessment of Nani from time to time, which is a backhanded compliment, as I have said, because he is obviously so talented. But I do think that is a little OTT.
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Nani offers miles more than Ronaldo in terms of build up. It's not even close. He's a better dribbler, has better ball retention and is more consistently creative. Everytime he gets the ball, you expect him to do something dangerous. Ronaldo is obviously by far the better goalscorer, but they're very different players with different attributes and should be compared as such.

If he could put it all together every week like he has done many times since that Hull game 2 years ago, the only player that would be considerably better than Nani would be Messi. That's the only reason people find Nani frustrating; not because he's any less consistent than any of our other players or because he's any more wasteful, but because he's got the talent to become an all-time great.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
For me he's still incredibly frustrating to watch, even at his best. I still think he's inconsistent, not over the course of a season but within the games themselves. He always looks dangerous, always creates chances and very rarely leaves a game without an assist or goal. It's just that for all the great positions he gets himself in, he'll make some bizarre decisions that will signal the end of some excellent moves.

I reckon the players have come to accept that he's so ridiculously talented that you can afford to let him do his thing and forgive him for his strange decisions, all in the knowledge that he's almost certain to produce something special over the 90 minutes.
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he made ONE bad decision yesterday, how the feck is that inconsistent?

it really pisses me off when people drab on about his decision making and inconsistency in games now because it's just not true in any way. He tries the unexpected, it's a part of his game and generally it works. Not every winger is like Valencia, who plays it safe for the most part and goes for the cross once he gets the yard of space. Nani has the talent to pull off magic so he should be allowed to try and do so, if it doesn't come off sometimes then so what? More often than not he beats his man with ease and sends a good cross into the boss, or gets a shot away. I for one would rather see him attempt these things and fail at the odd one rather than play it safe and limit himself.

Inconsistent my arse.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Come on now. That's exactly the sort of hyperbole that means I feel obliged to keep posting in this thread as a reality check. That's just a crazy thing to claim when our winger on the opposite flank out-performed him on the day. There's a good reason Valencia was voted MOTM by a landslide. He was our best player. Unless "ability on the ball" has some kind of strange meaning that has nothing to do with playing football?
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I imagine Nani coming off early and the fact he ended up with no direct contribution to goals or assists helps determine the MOTM, in comparison to Valencia who was able to score and create a goal, not that I base my opinion on who wins in the MOTM thread anyway. While he was on the pitch, I felt he was the best player on the ball, I still don't find that an outlandish statement. His end product could have been better in the first half, but his general play was outstanding. I find it strange you see such a problem with my statement here, unless you had Valencia miles ahead of Nani yesterday, which is madness. I'm more inclined to say 'Come on now' at your post.
 
He's still an incredibly frustrating player, because he constantly does brilliantly to get himself in a dangerous situation and then just fluffs it. Rooney hardly even has a go at him anymore, it's like he knows what's going to happen and only busts his lungs to get in the box for the sake of form.

That said, without Nani in the side we look about half as creative.
 
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