Lucas da Silva | Signed for PSG

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jojojo said:
I couldn't get excited when I heard about us bidding for him: I hadn't seen enough of him to care. A month later having watched him in action as a benchwarmer for Brazil's U23s, I can't get excited about someone bidding more than us.

If we're in an auction (and actually I'm not sure how much of this is press/agent smoke and mirrors and how much is serious) then it's like any other auction. You don't just keep sticking your hand up once the price is above what you think he's worth.
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I agree. Never been too excited by this signing as I think the price would be too high for the reasons you mentioned. There are other young players around with huge potential - we might get them on the cheap, or lose them to the nuveax riches clubs who are willing to spend insane money.

Plus, if a player choses such club above United for money reasons, he wouldnt have stayed here for too long (see Pogba)
 
jojojo said:
I couldn't get excited when I heard about us bidding for him: I hadn't seen enough of him to care. A month later having watched him in action as a benchwarmer for Brazil's U23s, I can't get excited about someone bidding more than us.

If we're in an auction (and actually I'm not sure how much of this is press/agent smoke and mirrors and how much is serious) then it's like any other auction. You don't just keep sticking your hand up once the price is above what you think he's worth.
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don't let good sense get in the way of a wild story
 
And to think Fergie supposedly missed the classic match against Vålerenga because of this this kid.
 
Nah he missed that match for RvP*.

*Or Sahin/Baines depending on when our RvP deal fizzes out.
 
Useless player. Never wanted him anyway. I didn't get excited at all about this deal.



sarcasm alert
 
VoetbalWizard said:
robben was even more 'done' than ronaldinho. father wanted him to come here, he toured OT, deal agreed, and then we got cute over 2-3 million quid.
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golden_blunder said:
yes, in that case we had agreed a fee then later faxed a lower fee. Peter bloody Kenyon. Surprise surpise, a couple of months later Kenyon was at Chelsea, followed a few months later by.. Robben
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i wish people would comment on facts
 
While there may well be other exciting young talent around, Moura is clearly a bit special. You dont get many Ronaldo's in a lifetime, so the (35) million dollar question is, is he 'that' good ?? I'm encouraged that the player himself has a say in things. If it was solely up to his club we'd be doomed. Still a chance to make this thread a whole lot longer...
 
pocco said:
It's almost as if we are becoming a parody of ourselves and our failed dealings in the past.

One thing is for sure, David Gill better get a deal on the table for Nani.
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Becoming a parody of ourselves would be paying ludicrous money in a foolish attempt to try and compete against the sugar daddy clubs...getting outbid by them is something that's happened for years.
 
So our idea of "working really hard to bring players into the club" is to sit around twiddling our thumbs until either nothing happens, or someone else comes along and buys the player instead.

I'm working really hard to bring about world peace.
 
noodlehair said:
So our idea of "working really hard to bring players into the club" is to sit around twiddling our thumbs until either nothing happens, or someone else comes along and buys the player instead.

I'm working really hard to bring about world peace.
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Do you really want us to spend 45m Euros on a 19yr old?
 
noodlehair said:
So our idea of "working really hard to bring players into the club" is to sit around twiddling our thumbs until either nothing happens, or someone else comes along and buys the player instead.
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And you know this how? If you think all that happens is Gill puts in a call and then waits for the player to get back to us, that's incredibly naive. A lot goes on behind the scenes. You can't blame the club when a sugar daddy comes in at the last minute and messes things up.

That's exactly how I would do things if I were running PSG/City. Wait till they accept a bid from United, then bid a bit more than that. If they came in from the start, the club would try and get them to pay over the odds.
 
Pffft.. Don't let, you know, reality get in the way of a few good rants about how nobody at MUFC has any idea about what's involved in signing footballers.

Don't know how to feel about this saga. Certainly didn't look like the type of player we really needed to sign but Fergie seemed to want him, which means it's a shame the deal fell through. Plenty more fish in the sea though. Including some who actually play in positions where we could do with some cover.
 
Obviously it's hard to say what has happened from the outside, but it seems we're too 'nice' at times. Fergie was apparently convinced Lucas wanted to join and left it at that so that he could concentrate on the Olympics. Now look what has happened. You'd think we'd have learnt from losing out in this exact way in the past.
 
noodlehair said:
So our idea of "working really hard to bring players into the club" is to sit around twiddling our thumbs until either nothing happens, or someone else comes along and buys the player instead.

I'm working really hard to bring about world peace.
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Well if your going to feed off the negative aspects then we take all te rumours as real and according to the rumours we had a deal which the club believe was completed just last saturday we were then gazumped by the psg and the agent going behiund our back at the last moment. Don't know what else we could have done.
 
pocco said:
Obviously it's hard to say what has happened from the outside, but it seems we're too 'nice' at times. Fergie was apparently convinced Lucas wanted to join and left it at that so that he could concentrate on the Olympics. Now look what has happened. You'd think we'd have learnt from losing out in this exact way in the past.
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You think?

Or are you just speculating?

That's what grinds my gears in threads like this. People deciding that it panned out in a certain way, then having a belly-ache in that context.

None of us have even the vaguest idea exactly what went on in terms of the negotiation with the player, his agent of his club. All we do know for certain is that he looks like he's about to sign for a club that is bank-rolled by an oil rich state. Does this mean it's more likely that we fecked up our approach to negotiations? Or that we were gazumped by someone with a fatter wallet? Hmmm...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Pffft.. Don't let, you know, reality get in the way of a few good rants about how nobody at MUFC has any idea about what's involved in signing footballers.

Don't know how to feel about this saga. Certainly didn't look like the type of player we really needed to sign but Fergie seemed to want him, which means it's a shame the deal fell through. Plenty more fish in the sea though. Including some who actually play in positions where we could do with some cover.
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Seems we've defo forgotten the art. Clumsy and out of form. :devil:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think?

Or are you just speculating?

That's what grinds my gears in threads like this. People deciding that it panned out in a certain way, then having a belly-ache in that context.

None of us have even the vaguest idea exactly what went on in terms of the negotiation with the player, his agent of his club. All we do know for certain is that he looks like he's about to sign for a club that is bank-rolled by an oil rich state. Does this mean it's more likely that we fecked up our approach to negotiations? Or that we were gazumped by someone with a fatter wallet? Hmmm...
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Well, I do know that we were interested in signing him, Fergie said as much. I won't hold it against the club that they lost a bidding war with PSG, or didn't want to pay the agent fees, but it begs the question of why on earth Fergie felt the need to state in public that we were after Lucas. Strange of him, and highly unusual, as the deal was apparently far from being agreed.

Same thing with RvP.
 
noodlehair said:
So our idea of "working really hard to bring players into the club" is to sit around twiddling our thumbs until either nothing happens, or someone else comes along and buys the player instead.

I'm working really hard to bring about world peace.
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What a weird post. What should we have done differently exactly?
 
Got something signed when Fergie dealt with them. It's pointless him coming away thinking its all done but nothing signed, only for PSG to offer more once he's left.
 
marjen said:
Well, I do know that we were interested in signing him, Fergie said as much. I won't hold it against the club that they lost a bidding war with PSG, or didn't want to pay the agent fees, but it begs the question of why on earth Fergie felt the need to state in public that we were after Lucas. Strange of him, and highly unusual, as the deal was apparently far from being agreed.

Same thing with RvP.
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Red herring. Inquire, make a low bid, and then say yes, we did bid.

All the time our eyes are on someone else. In this day of cut throat competition for players, Fergie could be up to his eyes into subterfuge.

Or else we have forgotten the art of buying.
 
I think it's all bollocks trying to second guess or attribute blame as to why certain deals didn't come off. Bottom line is all those who claim we had no money were wrong, we have been looking to sign quality players, not only this summer but last summer too.

They may not have been in the positions many of us believed were a priority, but still the intention is clear. I agree with those who think this deal should be forgotten now, we have made our best bid, and if someone else trumps it then so be it. It's not as if we offered a derogatory £10m, the bid was substantial and therefore has to be viewed as a serious and credible bid to sign an outstanding young talent.

We cannot compete with the PSG's nor should we try to. If we get RVP as well as Kagawa, and tie Nani up to an improved contract, i would say we would have still improved our options from last year and that's really all we can reasonably expect of the club imo.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Got something signed when Fergie dealt with them. It's pointless him coming away thinking its all done but nothing signed, only for PSG to offer more once he's left.
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Please tell me you aren't being serious.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think?

Or are you just speculating?

That's what grinds my gears in threads like this. People deciding that it panned out in a certain way, then having a belly-ache in that context.

None of us have even the vaguest idea exactly what went on in terms of the negotiation with the player, his agent of his club. All we do know for certain is that he looks like he's about to sign for a club that is bank-rolled by an oil rich state. Does this mean it's more likely that we fecked up our approach to negotiations? Or that we were gazumped by someone with a fatter wallet? Hmmm...
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I'm just speculating mainly on what the Journalists are saying. We were convinced it was a done deal on saturday and are now stunned at what has happened. It's why I said it's hard to know what has actually happened, but it sounds like Gascoigne & co. all over again.

I must say though, as much as I have thought Lucas will go on to be a very good player, I'm not too bothered about this one, providing Nani stays. Lucas needed a lot of coaching and nurturing to mould his raw talent and I'm not sure he'll get that with PSG.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think?

Or are you just speculating?

That's what grinds my gears in threads like this. People deciding that it panned out in a certain way, then having a belly-ache in that context.

None of us have even the vaguest idea exactly what went on in terms of the negotiation with the player, his agent of his club. All we do know for certain is that he looks like he's about to sign for a club that is bank-rolled by an oil rich state. Does this mean it's more likely that we fecked up our approach to negotiations? Or that we were gazumped by someone with a fatter wallet? Hmmm...
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It is quite amazing that people can still complain about us missing out on the lad. If PSG want to offer €45m for a 19 year old who has never played in Europe then they can have him, it's outrageous money.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Got something signed when Fergie dealt with them. It's pointless him coming away thinking its all done but nothing signed, only for PSG to offer more once he's left.
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And how could we have got something signed if our offer to SP wasn't accepted? (which it wasn't) PSG have come in and offered an obscene amount of money for a 19 year old who has warmed the bench so far at the Olympics and if you ask me, they are welcome to him for that amount of cash. We can't control money powered clubs coming in for players with these stupid figures, we can just go on about our business as we have been doing for years, and get the players that truly want to play for us.
 
KM said:
Do you really want us to spend 45m Euros on a 19yr old?
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It seems to have become a recurring theme where we decide we want a player, but don't want to pay the necessary price for him because we have this bizarre evaluation of what each player is worth, which we've stolen from 2008, and which no other club on earth except us seems to agree with.

The days of United being able to make a bid and then sit on their thumbs knowing no one else will be willing to pay more, are long gone.

I'm not really sure how much can go on between "we'll pay you this" and "well we think he's worth a bit more"....apart from loads of pointless timewasting and fecking around.

It makes it hard to figure out whether we can't really compete in the current market, or are just too arrogant to think we have to. I suspect the former, but then we should stop wasting time and effort on unrealistic targets.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think?

Or are you just speculating?

That's what grinds my gears in threads like this. People deciding that it panned out in a certain way, then having a belly-ache in that context.

None of us have even the vaguest idea exactly what went on in terms of the negotiation with the player, his agent of his club. All we do know for certain is that he looks like he's about to sign for a club that is bank-rolled by an oil rich state. Does this mean it's more likely that we fecked up our approach to negotiations? Or that we were gazumped by someone with a fatter wallet? Hmmm...
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Indeed. Also people acting like SAF is a totally newbie to transfers and hasn't got a clue how to get players to join us. It's so weird what ideas seem to form in some Muppet brains.

SAF has certain rules an principals when it comes to negotiations and if someone looks too greedy in his eyes he rather cut the deal then go and pay whatever is asked of him but to think he messes up a transfer due to not having a clue what he is doing is just really stupid.
 
noodlehair said:
It seems to have become a recurring theme where we decide we want a player, but don't want to pay the necessary price for him because we have this bizarre evaluation of what each player is worth, which we've stolen from 2008, and which no other club on earth except us seems to agree with.

I'm not really sure how much can go on between "we'll pay you this", "well we think he's worth a bit more"....apart from loads of pointless timewasting and fecking around.

It makes it hard to figure out whether we can't really compete in the current market, or are just too arrogant to think we have to.
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It's not hard at all. The reality is we can't compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and PSG. Nobody can. Not when it comes to head to head battles over a specific player. Not without the player himself bending over backwards to make it happen (something which is increasingly unlikely with the latest generation of cash-obsessed young footballers)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If only Gill and Fergie were as clued in as the users of redcafe on exactly how to conduct transfer negotiations. Maybe then I wouldn't keep feeling like the Jewish kid at Christmas? Oh well.
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This is getting all too mental now.
 
noodlehair said:
It seems to have become a recurring theme where we decide we want a player, but don't want to pay the necessary price for him because we have this bizarre evaluation of what each player is worth, which we've stolen from 2008, and which no other club on earth except us seems to agree with.
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I don't think you'll find many clubs besides Chelsea, City and PSG who considers £35m a fair price for a 19 year old unproven player.

Inter certainly didn't think it was a fair price, so they backed out.
 
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